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What system would you like to see in crafting?

Kiryu_riyKiryu_riy Member, Leader of Men
edited June 2019 in General Discussion
I, personally, enjoy interesting craft systems. I like how you can specialize in wow classic in different types of crafting, for blacksmithing you can choose to be weapon smith and weapon smith to craft better items; for letherworker it was tribal, elemental and dragons scales. Also in BDO there interesting systems for cooking and alchemy where you can substitute components to get final item for example to make bread you can use different types of flour or water.
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Comments

  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I would like a mix of GW2, Skyrims Alchemy and Star Wars Galaxies.
    It would be cool if we were able to experiment on recepies (replace specific materials)
    roaaztC.gif
  • Too many crafting professions mean a weak economy system:
    Every player is self sufficient
    Too many options to make gold means gold has low value
    Crafting will INEVITABLY lead to market flipping. The early rich people will start buying out all let's say potions for 10-12 gold and flip them for 15 overnight. Crafting will become irrelevant as an income source in comparison to market flipping.

    Imo crafting should be restricted in order to be respected and valued.
    Crafting should be about:
    Gear
    Consumables
    Buildings
    Ships

    Crafters should be disadvantaged in comparison to combat characters. If not I believe that we wont have an interesting economy. Same goes for gatherers.
    Unfortunatly this is a game, not real life, which means that less options are more solid.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Too many crafting professions mean a weak economy system:
    Every player is self sufficient
    Too many options to make gold means gold has low value
    Crafting will INEVITABLY lead to market flipping. The early rich people will start buying out all let's say potions for 10-12 gold and flip them for 15 overnight. Crafting will become irrelevant as an income source in comparison to market flipping.

    Imo crafting should be restricted in order to be respected and valued.
    Crafting should be about:
    Gear
    Consumables
    Buildings
    Ships

    Crafters should be disadvantaged in comparison to combat characters. If not I believe that we wont have an interesting economy. Same goes for gatherers.
    Unfortunatly this is a game, not real life, which means that less options are more solid.

    Are you after an interesting economy, or a stable economy?

    To me, an interesting economy is one where the price of potion jumps from 10-12 gold up to 15 gold over night, and a stable economy is one where that doesn't happen.

    I'd like to see at least a dozen crafting classes, ideally more like 20. I'd like to see characters rest restricted to just one class, but have a high degree of reliability on other classes so that even with full stable of crafting alts, no one player can be totally self sufficient.

    As to the economy, in order to see that gold maintains it's value, the developers need to limit the options for players to create new gold - not focus on how that gold transfers from one player to another. The more gold on the server, the less each gold is worth. Since most gold is generated via adventuring - whether mob drops or quest rewards - that is where developers need to focus in order to maintain the value of gold.
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    @noaani @georgeblack
    Well guys, it is a good thing then that items have a certain max duration and cant be repaired an unlimited time.
    That leads to a constant demand for items, which in turn is a stable support for all crafting professions ;)
    A constant demand for items leads to a stable economy.
    roaaztC.gif
  • Kiryu_riyKiryu_riy Member, Leader of Men
    Too many crafting professions mean a weak economy system:
    Every player is self sufficient
    Too many options to make gold means gold has low value
    Crafting will INEVITABLY lead to market flipping. The early rich people will start buying out all let's say potions for 10-12 gold and flip them for 15 overnight. Crafting will become irrelevant as an income source in comparison to market flipping.

    Imo crafting should be restricted in order to be respected and valued.
    Crafting should be about:
    Gear
    Consumables
    Buildings
    Ships

    Crafters should be disadvantaged in comparison to combat characters. If not I believe that we wont have an interesting economy. Same goes for gatherers.
    Unfortunatly this is a game, not real life, which means that less options are more solid.

    Not nessesary to have 1000 recipes in every profession just ability to experiment with recipes, let say you have basic recipe for bread and you free to experiment may be by adding wheat and corn flour final breed will be blue grade or if I go to desert area I can use cactus water for tea or river water....
  • Kiryu_riyKiryu_riy Member, Leader of Men
    damokles wrote: »
    @noaani @georgeblack
    Well guys, it is a good thing then that items have a certain max duration and cant be repaired an unlimited time.
    That leads to a constant demand for items, which in turn is a stable support for all crafting professions ;)
    A constant demand for items leads to a stable economy.

    Steven said that there will be decay sistem for items after certain cuantity of repairing it broken and you can use it any more.
  • ryuuji wrote: »
    Too many crafting professions mean a weak economy system:
    Every player is self sufficient
    Too many options to make gold means gold has low value
    Crafting will INEVITABLY lead to market flipping. The early rich people will start buying out all let's say potions for 10-12 gold and flip them for 15 overnight. Crafting will become irrelevant as an income source in comparison to market flipping.

    Imo crafting should be restricted in order to be respected and valued.
    Crafting should be about:
    Gear
    Consumables
    Buildings
    Ships

    Crafters should be disadvantaged in comparison to combat characters. If not I believe that we wont have an interesting economy. Same goes for gatherers.
    Unfortunatly this is a game, not real life, which means that less options are more solid.

    Not nessesary to have 1000 recipes in every profession just ability to experiment with recipes, let say you have basic recipe for bread and you free to experiment may be by adding wheat and corn flour final breed will be blue grade or if I go to desert area I can use cactus water for tea or river water....

    I am afraid this is purely make believe role playing and I hope that the devs will spend time on functionality and balance instead.
  • Kiryu_riyKiryu_riy Member, Leader of Men
    Maybe something for food will be interesting to implement for example frees food give you fool buff
  • Kiryu_riyKiryu_riy Member, Leader of Men
    ryuuji wrote: »
    Too many crafting professions mean a weak economy system:
    Every player is self sufficient
    Too many options to make gold means gold has low value
    Crafting will INEVITABLY lead to market flipping. The early rich people will start buying out all let's say potions for 10-12 gold and flip them for 15 overnight. Crafting will become irrelevant as an income source in comparison to market flipping.

    Imo crafting should be restricted in order to be respected and valued.
    Crafting should be about:
    Gear
    Consumables
    Buildings
    Ships

    Crafters should be disadvantaged in comparison to combat characters. If not I believe that we wont have an interesting economy. Same goes for gatherers.
    Unfortunatly this is a game, not real life, which means that less options are more solid.

    Not nessesary to have 1000 recipes in every profession just ability to experiment with recipes, let say you have basic recipe for bread and you free to experiment may be by adding wheat and corn flour final breed will be blue grade or if I go to desert area I can use cactus water for tea or river water....

    I am afraid this is purely make believe role playing and I hope that the devs will spend time on functionality and balance instead.

    It already done in BDO, just make it better.
  • grisugrisu Member
    How does a lot of crafting profession lead to self sufficencie? Do you mean being able to learn a lot of crafting professions? Otherwise this makes no sense.
    Anyway Ashes is built to be not like this. You won't be able to become selfsufficent and out of personal experience, most people don't want to bother with it too much anyway.
    It was already said if you purely level on crafting you will miss out on combat progression which leaves you at a combat disadvantage, obviously.
    Everyone can marketflip, most just don't want to invest the time into it. So what? Even if you have no crafting it would exist with dropped weapons or whatever you can trade.

    To the actual topic, I don't know what I want. I would like a bit more interaction in crafting, that's for sure. Sitting there for 20 minutes watching the progress bar fill up 200 times isn't really engaging. A deep recipe knowledge would be nice. Lots of cross recipies. Make this so you can use it there, refine it, use it on that other thing. It kept me interested for some reason, altho writing it like this it seems kind of annoying.
    What else, hmm. Yeah one more thing I hope that all of them are relevant for more reasons than "this one potion/gear component/upgrade material".
    I can be a life fulfilling dream. - Zekece
    I can be a life devouring nightmare. - Grisu#1819
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    ryuuji wrote: »
    Too many crafting professions mean a weak economy system:
    Every player is self sufficient
    Too many options to make gold means gold has low value
    Crafting will INEVITABLY lead to market flipping. The early rich people will start buying out all let's say potions for 10-12 gold and flip them for 15 overnight. Crafting will become irrelevant as an income source in comparison to market flipping.

    Imo crafting should be restricted in order to be respected and valued.
    Crafting should be about:
    Gear
    Consumables
    Buildings
    Ships

    Crafters should be disadvantaged in comparison to combat characters. If not I believe that we wont have an interesting economy. Same goes for gatherers.
    Unfortunatly this is a game, not real life, which means that less options are more solid.

    Not nessesary to have 1000 recipes in every profession just ability to experiment with recipes, let say you have basic recipe for bread and you free to experiment may be by adding wheat and corn flour final breed will be blue grade or if I go to desert area I can use cactus water for tea or river water....

    I am afraid this is purely make believe role playing and I hope that the devs will spend time on functionality and balance instead.
    What is wrong with role playing in a role playing game?
  • Kiryu_riyKiryu_riy Member, Leader of Men
    edited June 2019
    grisu wrote: »
    How does a lot of crafting profession lead to self sufficencie? Do you mean being able to learn a lot of crafting professions? Otherwise this makes no sense.
    Anyway Ashes is built to be not like this. You won't be able to become selfsufficent and out of personal experience, most people don't want to bother with it too much anyway.
    It was already said if you purely level on crafting you will miss out on combat progression which leaves you at a combat disadvantage, obviously.
    Everyone can marketflip, most just don't want to invest the time into it. So what? Even if you have no crafting it would exist with dropped weapons or whatever you can trade.

    To the actual topic, I don't know what I want. I would like a bit more interaction in crafting, that's for sure. Sitting there for 20 minutes watching the progress bar fill up 200 times isn't really engaging. A deep recipe knowledge would be nice. Lots of cross recipies. Make this so you can use it there, refine it, use it on that other thing. It kept me interested for some reason, altho writing it like this it seems kind of annoying.
    What else, hmm. Yeah one more thing I hope that all of them are relevant for more reasons than "this one potion/gear component/upgrade material".

    Interaction between professions, like maybe alchemist can craft reagents for blacksmith or tinctures, blacksmith can craft tools for other proffetions.....
  • Kiryu_riyKiryu_riy Member, Leader of Men
    ryuuji wrote: »
    Too many crafting professions mean a weak economy system:
    Every player is self sufficient
    Too many options to make gold means gold has low value
    Crafting will INEVITABLY lead to market flipping. The early rich people will start buying out all let's say potions for 10-12 gold and flip them for 15 overnight. Crafting will become irrelevant as an income source in comparison to market flipping.

    Imo crafting should be restricted in order to be respected and valued.
    Crafting should be about:
    Gear
    Consumables
    Buildings
    Ships

    Crafters should be disadvantaged in comparison to combat characters. If not I believe that we wont have an interesting economy. Same goes for gatherers.
    Unfortunatly this is a game, not real life, which means that less options are more solid.

    Not nessesary to have 1000 recipes in every profession just ability to experiment with recipes, let say you have basic recipe for bread and you free to experiment may be by adding wheat and corn flour final breed will be blue grade or if I go to desert area I can use cactus water for tea or river water....

    I am afraid this is purely make believe role playing and I hope that the devs will spend time on functionality and balance instead.

    For some reasons it named mmorpg and not mmo. In aoc you only can be artisan in one area if you want lvlup alt it is your choice.
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    ryuuji wrote: »
    damokles wrote: »
    @noaani @georgeblack
    Well guys, it is a good thing then that items have a certain max duration and cant be repaired an unlimited time.
    That leads to a constant demand for items, which in turn is a stable support for all crafting professions ;)
    A constant demand for items leads to a stable economy.

    Steven said that there will be decay sistem for items after certain cuantity of repairing it broken and you can use it any more.

    Thats what i said :)
    roaaztC.gif
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    This isn't really a crafting "system" per se but when it comes to gaining experience I'd love to see it done like it is in Runescape. In runescape every craftable item gives a set amount of experience points, with higher level items granting more experience. This means that no matter what you craft, you are working towards your next level up.

    I much prefer this over say, WoW's crafting system where items you craft have a chance to grant you a level up.
    volunteer_moderator.gif
  • Too many crafting professions mean a weak economy system:
    Every player is self sufficient
    Too many options to make gold means gold has low value
    Crafting will INEVITABLY lead to market flipping. The early rich people will start buying out all let's say potions for 10-12 gold and flip them for 15 overnight. Crafting will become irrelevant as an income source in comparison to market flipping.

    What game did u get this experience in?
    You should probs realize that flipping and merching is going to exist no matter what. In AoC it is also kind of encouraged(caravans).

    The amount of crafting professions is irrelevant to flipping.
    "You're seeking for perfection, but your disillusions are leading to destruction.
    You're bleeding for salvation, but you can't see that you are the damnation itself." -Norther
  • georgeblackgeorgeblack Member
    edited June 2019
    Too many crafting professions mean a weak economy system:
    Every player is self sufficient
    Too many options to make gold means gold has low value
    Crafting will INEVITABLY lead to market flipping. The early rich people will start buying out all let's say potions for 10-12 gold and flip them for 15 overnight. Crafting will become irrelevant as an income source in comparison to market flipping.

    What game did u get this experience in?
    You should probs realize that flipping and merching is going to exist no matter what. In AoC it is also kind of encouraged(caravans).

    The amount of crafting professions is irrelevant to flipping.

    Eso.
    I was totally sufficied with 1 character that had:
    Gear enchants
    Alchemy
    Jewelry
    Provisioning
    Blacksmithing
    Woodworking
    Leatherworking.

    In the first couple of years selling consumables and enchants would bring in gold. Later on, what I mentioned above happened. Only "usefull" armor weapons would fetch gold. Still, not so much. The game could be played 100% without having to worry about not having gold. Comletitively.
    If i wanted to golden out an armor or get potions all I had to do was play like before without having to worry about producing and selling. It was boring.
  • T ElfT Elf Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited June 2019
    ryuuji wrote: »
    .
    Not nessesary to have 1000 recipes in every profession just ability to experiment with recipes, let say you have basic recipe for bread and you free to experiment may be by adding wheat and corn flour final breed will be blue grade or if I go to desert area I can use cactus water for tea or river water....

    You know, all those discovered recipes that you experimented to find, actually have to be coded/made before hand by the developers, so yes, there will still be thousands of recipes.
    eZC6mjP.gif
    Formerly T-Elf

  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    This isn't really a crafting "system" per se but when it comes to gaining experience I'd love to see it done like it is in Runescape. In runescape every craftable item gives a set amount of experience points, with higher level items granting more experience. This means that no matter what you craft, you are working towards your next level up.

    I much prefer this over say, WoW's crafting system where items you craft have a chance to grant you a level up.

    This is the system I prefer as well. It also seems to be the direction gaming has been headed luckily.

    I love the aspect of a MMO that allows players to still level up as a crafter or gatherer. I remember being so excited for this in the first attempt at FF14.

    Even though I'm not a crafter, I thought the diversity that this creates in the types of players on the server was cool. Before, everyone was a fighter, with maybe a crafting hobby. The "civilians" were all NPCs which just wasn't as immersive feeling.
    Aq0KG2f.png
  • Kiryu_riyKiryu_riy Member, Leader of Men
    elf wrote: »
    ryuuji wrote: »
    .
    Not nessesary to have 1000 recipes in every profession just ability to experiment with recipes, let say you have basic recipe for bread and you free to experiment may be by adding wheat and corn flour final breed will be blue grade or if I go to desert area I can use cactus water for tea or river water....

    You know, all those discovered recipes that you experimented to find, actually have to be coded/made before hand by the developers, so yes, there will still be thousands of recipes.

    What you prefer variety or simplicity? It is game for years.
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    ryuuji wrote: »
    elf wrote: »
    ryuuji wrote: »
    .
    Not nessesary to have 1000 recipes in every profession just ability to experiment with recipes, let say you have basic recipe for bread and you free to experiment may be by adding wheat and corn flour final breed will be blue grade or if I go to desert area I can use cactus water for tea or river water....

    You know, all those discovered recipes that you experimented to find, actually have to be coded/made before hand by the developers, so yes, there will still be thousands of recipes.

    What you prefer variety or simplicity? It is game for years.

    Yes but that doesn't mean that you need access to everything right from the very start. I'd rather get a solid foundation first and then expand on that.
    volunteer_moderator.gif
  • grisugrisu Member
    Now that you brought it up @wanderingmist I would actually like to see a combination of the two. median exp vs chance to level up in crafting.
    Let's take BDO as a base concept with having bigger categories like beginner, journeyman, expert, artisan (I don't remember the ranks anymore) that are divided into 10 levels.
    So you start as a beginner crafter/gatherer/whatever and fill your knowledge with steady exp from your profession, but at some point you hit a bit of a wall that requieres you to do something that "pushes" the limits of your profession knowledge.

    I don't know how Ashes will end up so grabbing a random example out of the air.

    As beginner blacksmith you have a rough understanding of copper, iron, tin and can make stuff reliably out of it, but approaching the limit of the beginner rank you will have to try and integrate new materials/refined materials to "push" the limitation of your rank. Stuff will break, stuff will be garbage that can just be salvaged, but at one point you will make that great steel sword/ bronze amulet that broadens your knowledge. Maybe it will be finding the right mix of metals for an alloy. Maybe felling a new tree species correctly. I duno.
    That way you can have a steady learning curve I suppose with real world knowledge that will turn into more difficulty/fantastical tasks at the higher profession ranks with materials that don't exist.
    I can be a life fulfilling dream. - Zekece
    I can be a life devouring nightmare. - Grisu#1819
  • Kiryu_riyKiryu_riy Member, Leader of Men
    ryuuji wrote: »
    elf wrote: »
    ryuuji wrote: »
    .
    Not nessesary to have 1000 recipes in every profession just ability to experiment with recipes, let say you have basic recipe for bread and you free to experiment may be by adding wheat and corn flour final breed will be blue grade or if I go to desert area I can use cactus water for tea or river water....

    You know, all those discovered recipes that you experimented to find, actually have to be coded/made before hand by the developers, so yes, there will still be thousands of recipes.

    What you prefer variety or simplicity? It is game for years.

    Yes but that doesn't mean that you need access to everything right from the very start. I'd rather get a solid foundation first and then expand on that.

    It how it must be, we have basics and then experiments with different materials, ingredients
  • BlackheartedBlackhearted Member
    edited June 2019
    Would progressing that way be majorly dependant on luck?

    Would make much more sense if the characters started learning with easy materials and then evolve from that?

    @georgeblack system similar to esos can bw created properly too. Look at RS.
    "You're seeking for perfection, but your disillusions are leading to destruction.
    You're bleeding for salvation, but you can't see that you are the damnation itself." -Norther
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Eso.
    The issues with crafting and the economy in ESO are not because of the number of crafting classes.

    The primary reason there are issues in ESO with crafting being boring is because every player can be every class.

    Most games limit how many crafting classes you can have on a given character. If you are able to have - purely as an example - 3 classes on one character, are limited to four characters per server and there are 24 crafting classes, one player simply can't be more than half of the classes in the game.

    More classes make crafting and the economy better - not worse.

  • Kiryu_riyKiryu_riy Member, Leader of Men
    edited June 2019
    Chios to be blacksmith and then as artisan chois between weapon smith or armorsmith to craft better equipment in choosen aeea and nothing more. Same for gathering you can gather every simple material but as artisan you choose to be : miner, herbalist, woodworker, hunter...
    To get better materials, resourses, ingredients and rarest.
  • Not sure about what I'd like to see. But I definitely wouldn't want to see fail stacking, like in BDO for instance, it's just a boring mechanic.
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  • Kiryu_riyKiryu_riy Member, Leader of Men
    muridious wrote: »
    Not sure about what I'd like to see. But I definitely wouldn't want to see fail stacking, like in BDO for instance, it's just a boring mechanic.

    Steven already said that there will be difficulty not rng.
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I would like to see some of the highest tier of crafting somewhat gated behind effort.

    Kingdom Come Deliverance made some crafting (alchemy) quite a considerable effort and thereby it became only those who made the effort would reap the rewards.

    I would like to see something similar (not necessarily the same method) such that the meta of the highest tier was not easily obtained and lets to a limited supply on the market and those that make the effort become by default of the scarcity appropriately rewarded.
  • kriinkriin Member
    One of my favorite crafting profession in Wurm Online was cooking. If all of of AoC crafting professions where like this I would love it. You had about 100 of ingredients and about a dozen or so utensils that you can experiment with to craft and discover 100's of recipes including more complex ingredients.

    Some examples:
    When you combine a few ingredients in a pan you might get some text saying "this looks like it could use more liquid" , "how about adding some carrots" or "this looks like it will make something, try putting it in the oven." Its all about trying things out. Other professions could have a similar system.

    Another Idea I had is a bit different.
    Lets say youre a bowyer. Their could be a few different areas that youre leveling. Each area increases the base stats on the final product. The material used also adds to the base stats of the final product (not to be confused with the knowlege of using it). Not all professions will use this. The areas to level are:
    - Wood Working (overall knowledge of wood in general)
    - Bow String Making (overall knowledge of string making)
    - Material Type (knowledge of that particular material)
    - Bow making (overal knowledge of bows making in general)
    - Bow Type (knowledge of making that particular type of bow)

    As you progress it will be harder to level in each one, specaily when working with a perticular type. This way there isnt really a level on class but in areas. I Hope im making sense.
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