Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
It is my very own personal opinion that perhaps more people share, that is the point of a discussion; to find out if the community agrees, disagress or feel mixed about.
Anyway, games like WoW was not kickstarted, this is again my very own opinion, but having supported Intrepid and contributing to the game and the possibility of it being created, makes me feel that I should be able to voice my opinion on what I feel. They have been very transparent, now they aren't. In my opinion I would love if we could find a middle ground. I am by no means demanding.
Whereas I don't agree with everything stated in your initial post, I very much agree with this sentiment. It is only normal for a consumer to be curious about where their money is going. I too have been wondering why the team didn't use the arena maps that they had already created in conjunction with the A0 map to create a more MMO centered APOC experience with the ability to test the action combat, server stability, as well as some of the core MMO aspects.
I don't care as long as I get a decent game.
I'm content with what they do show us, because they honestly don't have to show us anything. Most games are simply showing you concept art until just prior to Beta.
The fact they do engage with us at the level they do, shows me they do prioritize their player base. I really don't need a daily, weekly or even monthly update.
But they are nice.
I guess as I get older, waiting has become easier. I don't need the fleeting instant gratification. Because I know, in the big picture, demanding they share more videos/pictures with us isn't going to make the game come out quicker. I find other ways to pass the time.
I'm frankly more amused watching at how many people exhibit behavior akin to addicts, trying to get a quick fix, which satisfies them for an even shorter time each fix only to demand more.
Some people need to chill out.
It's a point of view that does not justify the demands of wanting to see. We are all here for the game, yes, but demanding and thinking we are entitled to see more is on a whole different level. As many have already stated, the game was already funded before Kickstarter even came into play. The Kickstarter was for extras not the game itself. Just because you chipped in a bit of money for an already funded project does not mean you should see (great) but potentially damaging components of the game. By damaging I mean by other companies cashing in on what Intrepid is creating. Why would you want to jeopardize all Ashes COULD be just because 'you want to see more' so you should see more?? Why risk it? I'd rather see the game launch Successfully without hindrance rather than below sub par because of the communities greed.
Ashes was already fully funded before kickstarter came into play like many have said before. You contributed for extras not the entire game. You shouldn't expect to see major game defining aspects of it for that. As I said in another post, Intrepid showing extra could damage it, all for a 'fans temporary and impatient greed'
At the end of the day, patience is a virtue, and that's what everyone needs to have. If they don't have it, they should step away from Ashes and return on launch for some semblance of peace of mind (even though intrepid are showing things which should bring about peace of mind anyway.... but no, it's not enough.)
I don't know what else to say, they are showing what they can without bringing detriment to the project, they are showing things monthly to us when they by all means don't have to, they could take the route of other MMO and game developers but they haven't. When is it ever going to be enough???
I want the game to succeed and have a great launch, not be hindered by fans wanting to see more than we have to.
You sir, just get it.
I do not claim any game development experience, but I have a lot of experience in large development projects. When doing agile development, in particular, the focus is to attack high risk parts of the system as early as possible, to learn and reduce risks later on. Related to this, every development project goes through different phases, where various parts of a system is focussed on.
What we do know from the last two streams is that they are focussing on:
- network code and infrastructure. A significant part of the engineers are probably working on this.
- castle siege. Destructible terrain/objects in particular is something they have talked about for a few
months, so this seems to be a complex feature they are spending a lot of time on, both on engineering and
art
- skills and combat. They are obviously pouring a lot of time into getting combat right, creating new abilities,
animations, even changing core systems.
- assets, and optimization of these. Some of these we see in APOC, but mostly I assume they're making a
large library of assets that later will be needed in the MMO client.
- tools. As seen in dev diaries. Significant time is spent on tools and processes to produce an efficient
pipeline, so that they later can be much more productive.
An important part of agile development, though, is continous integration. I.e. integrating different parts into something usable/playable. Both for testing purposes and to avoid the nightmare of integrating everything in the end. For Ashes, this playable test bed is APOC. All of the above core systems are tested extensively through the APOC client, much better than it would have been in the MMO client.
It does not make sense for Intrepid to be "building the MMO" (client) now. They are, however, developing core components, doing prototyping and exploratory development, building tools and defining processes. Then testing these out in APOC. When satisified with how things work in APOC, and only then, will feature at some point be integrated into the MMO client.
What everyone need to realize is that "99%" of the stuff you see in APOC are features that are essential to the MMO. Instead of thinking of APOC as "another game", try to think of it as a crucial slice of the MMO.
In addition, a lot of the work they're doing now is setting up for a better production pipeline so they can go into "production mode" after the core systems are in place.
Also, remember they have grown substantially the last year. Hiring people takes time. Integrating new people into the project takes time from those already there. A company of 100-200 people has to be organized very different than 10-20 people, so they have probably been going through big organizational changes the last year.
The MMO client will be the focus after APOC, in preparation for Alpha 1.
TLDR; the focus for Intrepid now is developing a set of core systems and performing optimizations for the MMO, which are tested in APOC. Once they are happy with the performance and quality of these systems, I believe they will start integrating them into the MMO client and prepare for Alpha 1. Not having a playable MMO client now has nothing to do with them not being able to, but rather that the focus is on other things.
One of the things "open development" has never meant is that we will get to see the MMORPG map as soon as possible or we will get a skills list for all the primary archetypes as soon as possible or we will get a list of all the crafting professions as soon as possible.
One of the reasons we have the APOC map is because Steven wants players to feel a sense of discovery and wonderment when we play the game rather than spoiling that info beforehand.
One of the things "open development" has meant is that we got to see pre-alpha gameplay and mechanics earlier in the development process than is typical for most MMORPGs. And there was pre-alpha testing available for fans earlier in the development process than is typical.
We had a chance to test the tab-target mechanics before they even created action abilities and we got to test a sample of action abilities soon after those abilities were created.
We were able to play in a setting that has examples of the environments and buildings that will be in the MMORPG. And we're able to experience a sample of the history the MMORPG lore is based on - earlier than we would in other MMORPGs.
Players tend not to understand that game dev schedules are rife with delays. Steven didn't even fully appreciate that prior to this year because this is his first stint at being a game dev. So, prior to this year, Steven was tossing out dates without much care for how players will react when those dates are missed. Now that he's experienced not be able to meet the expectation he set in December for access to APOC and now that Maggie is onboard to help him release more reliable dates and info, there is less transparency. Because it's better not to give a date than it is to miss the date.
And info is subject to change over the course of development.
One of the complaints we hear a lot from players is, "But he PROMISED!!!" Even when Steven was just sharing tentative info. So, of course, the devs are going to be more reluctant to share info that people can misconstrue as a PROMISE.
Even now... last week we were shown character models and animations that will be used in the MMORPG, we were shown concept art for buildings that will be used in the MMORPG, we were shown models and animations for mounts and mobs that will be used in the MMORPG... and we have a thread started that states, "We still have seen nothing from the MMO itself."
A major complaint has been that we haven't been shown 3D models for the KS cosmetics - they show us some 3D models and we still have a response of, "Nice, but still nothing from the MMO..."
Somehow that is perceived as "Not showing any content at all."
We've had 6 months of mostly silence while they work on getting APOC better shape to be played 24/7.
Which is great - I would rather they show than tell. And if they showed too much while we can't play, people would be even more upset that we have to wait to play.
Steven is discovering the reasons why game devs typically aren't very transparent: players tend not to appreciate the transparency.
Now, IS starts hiring the best it can find. Art leads, engineer leads and so on. Eventually they get a Marketing leads.
When the project got larger, new restrictions are put in place. If they have proprietary network systems/code, they can't share it, or how it works, because well, it might expose them to attacks.
Also, if you have an experienced Marketing lead telling you to share only what's necessary or just certain bits of information, why would you ignore her advice?
All I'm saying is that Steven might have an idea on what "transparency" meant, but when it was full hands on the project, perspective and ideas on how to make it successful change.
I'd rather have no info at all and get a decent product at lunch, than having lots of info and the game sucks.
Let's be honest then. If you don't get any info that means you won't play at lunch? I really doubt that.
So, as long as we get updates on HOW things will be played/done, I guess that is good enough. What matters is that the system in place work.
Honestly, if the waves on the ocean look horrible, I couldn't care less, as long as the game is fun, and the Node/Guild/Wars system work.
Plus Steve goes on Discord all the time, Plus we get to see him interact with community on a regular basis. Through live Streams. Plus they put out little bits of Lore now and then. All in all they have done a great job I mean they have you asking for more. Everyone wants to see more well just MMOs take time that is all.
Since I feel like it would take all day to respond to each one, I'll just post my opinion related to the original post.
Simply put, Intrepid is doing their best to try and manage their marketing as best they can. Steven did a great job so far releasing everything he could, even to the point of spoiling many things nearly every time he got in front of the camera - and all of it was clearly because he was so excited to tell people about what was in development that he ended up blurting out quite a bit! He even would fall asleep responding to people in discord.
That being said, there was quite a bit of negative criticism that made its way back, seemingly from people who were either very impatient, or just downright toxic or malicious. (Again, just looking at the possible negative criticism reactions, even though there was far more positive criticism and reactions.) Whatever the case may be, my perspective as another community member and follower of the development is that they're just trying to manage things better. There's also been a LOT of other gaming companies recently (nearly all of the main AAA-gaming companies it seems) that have done some really scummy practices, especially around monetizing their products (or releasing unfinished products for full price) and essentially screwing their customers. I imagine they're doing their best to make sure that they don't get lumped in with any of them. The best way to do that is to only show things that are closer to finished. In other words, limit what gets put out there until something more substantial can be put out there (like another round of APOC testing.)
They've also been very transparent, to my perspective at least, that the reason we haven't seen anything since the APOC testing was because of some major back-end testing that essentially mandated a complete overhaul of some of their code and systems. That takes a lot of work! They've also tripled their staff since then - possibly more. My hope is they only hired more experienced staff so they don't have to spend time on training, but I imagine there's still quite a bit of training that needs to happen, too, since it's all new stuff they're developing.
I'm in the camp where I just want to be involved in the process in some way. I love the imagination and creativity of the game, especially since I grew up as a gamer (especially in mmorpg's, starting with Nexus TK), and I want to give back what I can - not just enjoying the end product. I even spent a lot of money beforehand just to test the game, hoping that I can be a part of the process to make it better.
Heck, I would even want them to release more, regardless of how unfinished it is. I would absolutely love it if they had some of their main team members or artists live-streaming them working on something every day, even if it's one guy just trying to draw a staff for 8 hours. Or another guy just trying to code something. Would that be boring? Oh, definitely. Would it be interesting? Absolutely. For me, it would be so interesting that I would want to learn about the tools and things they're using, just to learn it myself and somehow help with the process.
After all of that - of course I want to see the finished product in my hands right meow!
But, I can wait, too. :-P
sorry wrong universe