toastinator wrote: » And if an author chooses to use the concept of racism (whether you like it or not that it exists in real live) to reinforce the tension between different parties, he has every right to do so. I would even argue, that it makes the world a bit more realistic and therefore more likely to get involved.
toastinator wrote: » I´ll take a wild guess and say, you are talking about that some cave-dwellers, who are obsessed with jewellery and have long beards. Are you implying, that these fellows have a real live equivalent? Well guess what, Tolkien didn’t invent dwarfs. They are creatures of the Germanic mythology and predate to the 13th century. In Tolkien’s works, they are brave fighters as i remember and in the films, they are ducking AWSOME! Who wouldn’t want to be a dwarf?
toastinator wrote: » Btw @dygz it is called antisemitic, to be against Jews, not Anti-Islamic. As far as I know Jews (Semitism) and Muslims (Islam) are not exactly the best friends ether.
noaani wrote: » From a lore perspective, I'd like to think that the non-Tulnar races would be somewhat amicable towards each other. They have been living together for thousands of years, and are close enough that the portals to Verra are essentially race agnostic. This says to me that the races are somewhat evenly spread out on the other side of those portals, which would suggest a certain amount of racial harmony. The Tulnar though, they are new. They are different. I'd expect to see a fairly high amount of racism towards them. However, as a player, I'd much rather be able to hate on an individual because of the individual, rather than because of their race.
dygz wrote: » It's fine for an author to present racism as a subjective point of view. It's not OK to present what should be the subjective stereotypes of specific characters as objectively true.
dygz wrote: » Your guess is a strawman argument rooted in ignorance. Which is going to be the most likely result when you fashion an argument from a guess rather than relying on facts.
dygz wrote: » Wrong tag. I didn't use the term Anti-Islamic and I didn't refer to Jews. I left my criticism of Tolkien's work to one sentence, despite the major impact that has had on systemic racism in RPGs, like D&D and WoW for the last 40 years, in order to minimize discussion of real life racism. That's also why I posted links when asked about clarification rather than expanding on the topic with numerous paragraphs. People who want to try to understand more about that can start with those links. People who want to ignore it can ignore the links.
karthos wrote: » And no, that’s not what I was talking about. I don't even see what you could possibly have read that would make you assume that's what I meant. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the article I referenced. If so, why did you even reply?
damokles wrote: » I vote that we will all start a race war in the beta, one day before the reset. Tulnar vs Humans vs Elves vs Dwarvs vs Orcs
karthos wrote: » @dygz I also note you answered these other people. Perhaps your problem is with me personally? I simply asked a question, you half assed an answer and I called on you to actually answer my question. Apparently this is unacceptable to you, and if so, welcome to the internet.
azathoth wrote: » Race wars are for the weak minded. Step up your game and hate your own! Civil war? Yes please! Brothers killing brothers? For sure! Patricide? Omg yes! Matricide? Why not! Better yet, we take hate out of the equation. You know those peeps in the next node over that will ask you about your day? Slay them, just because. I would rather Ashes not implement a reason for races to hate each other. I get why Tulnar would be opposed to everyone else, but outside of that it seems like a weak gimmick to artificially create game conflict. Also, just because someone wrote a book that had some rl racism, you can't hold them responsible for future content creators. Unfortunately, we all have our own minds.
dygz wrote: » noaani wrote: » From a lore perspective, I'd like to think that the non-Tulnar races would be somewhat amicable towards each other. They have been living together for thousands of years, and are close enough that the portals to Verra are essentially race agnostic. This says to me that the races are somewhat evenly spread out on the other side of those portals, which would suggest a certain amount of racial harmony. The Tulnar though, they are new. They are different. I'd expect to see a fairly high amount of racism towards them. However, as a player, I'd much rather be able to hate on an individual because of the individual, rather than because of their race. In Ashes, there will likely be some cultural conflicts. If I'm hoping to have a Vek Scientific Metro, I'm probably not going to be happy if my Vek town advances to become a Ren'Kai city. I especially won't be happy if it advances to become an Aelar or Py'Rai or Nikua city.
dygz wrote: » noaani wrote: » If someone were to use just those articles to form an opinion of their own, and not look at the wealth of actual well researched papers on the subject out there, I would say they are doing themselves a dis-service by not looking in to the matter fully (and anyone that looked in to the matter fully would have better papers to link than the above to support an argument that there was racism), and most likely had a pre-conceived notion of (or at least a pre-existing lean towards) seeing racism where it doesn't exist. Just read the Tolkien books and see how they affected systemic racism in RPG design for decades. No one has suggested using those articles to form an opinion, as far as I know.
noaani wrote: » If someone were to use just those articles to form an opinion of their own, and not look at the wealth of actual well researched papers on the subject out there, I would say they are doing themselves a dis-service by not looking in to the matter fully (and anyone that looked in to the matter fully would have better papers to link than the above to support an argument that there was racism), and most likely had a pre-conceived notion of (or at least a pre-existing lean towards) seeing racism where it doesn't exist.
noaani wrote: » dygz wrote: » In Ashes, there will likely be some cultural conflicts. If I'm hoping to have a Vek Scientific Metro, I'm probably not going to be happy if my Vek town advances to become a Ren'Kai city. I especially won't be happy if it advances to become an Aelar or Py'Rai or Nikua city. That is racism (pretend, to be sure) on the part of the player, not the part of the game.
dygz wrote: » In Ashes, there will likely be some cultural conflicts. If I'm hoping to have a Vek Scientific Metro, I'm probably not going to be happy if my Vek town advances to become a Ren'Kai city. I especially won't be happy if it advances to become an Aelar or Py'Rai or Nikua city.
noaani wrote: » I would think the vast majority of players won't actually care too much about the race of the node they are in. The node type, level, location and leadership will likely be what 90%+ of the playerbase look for. It is somewhat murky at this stage the level of in game benefit that living in a node that is predominantly your race will have, but the differences seem to be far lesser than the differences offered by node type and location, and the stability offered by good leadership.
noaani wrote: » I would expect in game NPC's to have some level of (potentially) unwarranted suspicion - or worse - towards the Tulnar. I wouldn't expect too much between the other races, as they have had thousands of years living together, and as stated are living in a world on the other side of the portals where the population is somewhat mixed, suggesting a level of harmony.
noaani wrote: » I wouldn't at all be surprised to see a one off NPC that dislikes a specific race for one reason or another, but with the exception of the Tulnar, I don't expect it to be wide spread.
noaani wrote: » As for player racism though, if a player wishes to hate on one race as in the quote above, more power to them. I'm sticking by my stance of hating on the individuals that deserve it, ignoring their race totally.
