Support? - In response to: Healers and Supports: What are you hoping to see in AoC?

chibibree

This week in our podcast, we discussed @danada 's post and continued to branch off.
Do you think support can be a rewarding class? What would make it feel rewarding, or make you enjoy playing that kind of class? What are your hopes for Support classes in Ashes of Creation?

With experiences in other video games - namely FFXIV for me - I've seen a new perspective on support classes. I've mained Dancer this new expansion and really enjoy the cross between damage and buffing that it gives. That beign said, I can see perspectives for healer/support where you heal mainly but also add damage buffs...

Thoughts?

OP: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/42844/healers-and-supports-what-are-you-hoping-to-see-in-aoc

Valentine

I'd love as a support class to be able to do joint or empowered attacks with dps. Like I create a magical disruption that enhances one of their attacks and we both have an animation of us working together to hurl that attack or w/e at the enemy!

Also heals can be done together as a ritual, we gather around and have an effect like druid's tranquility from WoW.

Basically when I support I want to be noticed for it, my presence felt!

Virtek

Yes yes yes!

I posted about my thoughts on bard on @danada 's thread:

I'd like my support class to feel like the major power is from the support abilities. They should spend 90% of their time taking supportive actions.

I was thinking of a multi-level casting solution. Something like the below:

• Stage Set (maybe a stance change?) - Single power cast or lengthy ticking action
• Opener (Optional) - Alters base single-target spell into AoE effect (could potentially be an additional "stance" choice?)
• Performance - Choice between heal, damage, buff, debuff, crowd control ability to cast
• Finale (Optional) - Activates AOE spread of ticking effect already cast

Multiple layers will provide a dynamic feeling to performances, optional components would add resource demands and flexibility to the end-product.
Maybe some abilities that spread and/or refresh other hot/dot effects applied by party members?

As a support, you should be the cornerstone of strategy. Timely and effective use of all your skills must have a pivotal role in the success of the party

Bot

I personally enjoy playing support roles. Particularly I enjoy playing as a playmaker in NBA 2k, Zenyatta in Overwatch, in FPS's I've run a combat medic role often, and in League I enjoy playing Leona. I don't really enjoy straight up healing, I find it incredibly mind-numbing. For me to watch to play as a support role, it has to be an offensive, playmaking role. This means stuff like cc, mobility, decision-making, and buffs to teammates like speed boosts, damage boosts, and debuffs to the enemy. For example, if I run a bard/rogue, maybe my skills are buffs/debuffs where my teammates and I can go invisible or be more mobile for a strong assassin squad.

chibibree

@Valentine Thast sounds interesting, I'd be curious to see an animated example of that and how stacking could benefit the group overall.

@virtek That gave me an idea...

A dancer of sorts that has a few dancing stances that affect the party depending on what is needed i.e.: Damage Increase Dance or a Defense Increase. This would takea few runs and paying attention to when the dance would need to be activated to perform at its best - thus utilizing the combo bonus when you perform it properly. Perhaps nailing it down can provide more of an increase to said buffs.

@bot I like that thought... would be cool to see what Bard/x could bring to the table. I personally enjoy Dancer class in FFXIV but there are some other ideas I can imagine that would make the class operate even more different than their version.

Professor Posh

Is that THE Chibibree? Like from YouTube? Where have you been my lady? 😄

Dygz

chibibree wrote: »

@virtek That gave me an idea...

A dancer of sorts that has a few dancing stances that affect the party depending on what is needed i.e.: Damage Increase Dance or a Defense Increase. This would take a few runs and paying attention to when the dance would need to be activated to perform at its best - thus utilizing the combo bonus when you perform it properly. Perhaps nailing it down can provide more of an increase to said buffs.

I'm hoping that combat works such that we are paying attention to our teammates' combat tactics so that we can synergize with the abilities they like to use - such that we learn that the Necromancer's summoned Skeletons have increased damage while standing in the Shadow Caster's Deepening Shadows.
The Necromancer might also want to summon their Skeletons while the Minstrel is channeling a Damage Increase Song for the party. A Soul Weaver might want to prepare a Song for the party that increases incoming heals in anticipation of a High Priest's party-wide Heal.
Then, we will truly be supporting the combat tactics of our teammates -based on the Adventurer abilities and weapon abilities they're using - in addition to adjusting our typical party/raid tactics based on what our opponents are doing.

As we are using our weapon ability combos to lead up to the weapon's ultimate ability - I hope there will also be de facto combos we can create by synergizing our own abilities with the abilities our teammates like to use. Across archetypes and subclasses, as well as within a specific archetype.

Hopefully, a Shadow Caster and Shadow Disciple can pool their abilities to strengthen and heal the minions of a Shadowmancer while a Song Caller might be able to increase the number of minions all Summoners in the party can Summon.

Valentine

I'm worried supports will just be buff bars on people's raids instead of a visual and thematic part of the experience. I know it sounds crazy but I'd rather supports be less about buffs and more about creating opportunities for something more dynamic and interesting!

chibibree

@TheNobleOne Hey, hehe, I suppose it is ^_^ I've been working 2 jobs in hopes to get the better one and have more free time

@Dygz That is an interesting theory craft... that would definitely make it more interesting to play support, given the number of opportunities presented. This could end up leading to multiple playstyles within the same classes/archetype mixtures. This would also change based on party makeup. I am looking forward to seeing how Intrepid presents the support classes and, as @Valentine mentioned, keeping it interesting.

Virtek

Dygz wrote: »

I'm hoping that combat works such that we are paying attention to our teammates' combat tactics so that we can synergize with the abilities they like to use - such that we learn that the Necromancer's summoned Skeletons have increased damage while standing in the Shadow Caster's Deepening Shadows.
The Necromancer might also want to summon their Skeletons while the Minstrel is channeling a Damage Increase Song for the party. A Soul Weaver might want to prepare a Song for the party that increases incoming heals in anticipation of a High Priest's party-wide Heal.
Then, we will truly be supporting the combat tactics of our teammates -based on the Adventurer abilities and weapon abilities they're using - in addition to adjusting our typical party/raid tactics based on what our opponents are doing.

...

Hopefully, a Shadow Caster and Shadow Disciple can pool their abilities to strengthen and heal the minions of a Shadowmancer while a Song Caller might be able to increase the number of minions all Summoners in the party can Summon.

This, exactly! Support types should be able to help team members capitalize on their abilities. I like the idea that the secondary class of the support type can grant especially strong boons for that primary class in their team. This would be even more dynamic and fantastic if Ashes allows for the changing of secondary class to fill specific roles for the day.

Valentine wrote: »

I'm worried supports will just be buff bars on people's raids instead of a visual and thematic part of the experience. I know it sounds crazy but I'd rather supports be less about buffs and more about creating opportunities for something more dynamic and interesting!

I agree with this, to a point. Sadly, I think "support" skills would mainly fall into the buff/debuff/CC realm, though the execution of such can add a much deeper feel to the interaction. Such as creating an aoe field around the support type that increases casting/global cooldown speeds or making the boss more vulnerable to interrupts.
Your idea sounds far from crazy to me, though I would, personally, like my support class to stray away from the need to worry about my personal damage or healing throughput. I want to increase the abilities of those that are specializing in their role, while having the flexibility to impact many facets of the battle.