Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
- I ignore daily quests
- I need an aim to keep playing
- A good combat system is a must
- Story is nice to have but not necessary
- Sometimes the community makes me stick to a game but more often it´s just the gameplay.
- Don't cookie cutter the classes. I'm tired of playing MMO's where they 'adjust' classes to the point where they all feel the same, just different names.
- Do the crafting portion of the game right. Almost all MMO's I've played, the crafting was just an afterthought, to maybe craft some gimmicky items, or the occasional glamour piece. At the end of the day the only crafters that made anything worthwhile were alchemists or cooks because they made consumables. Please make it so that what we craft is actually going to useful, and not just as an intermediary.
- Don't make things too easy. I'm not just talking about the combat here. Combat, quests, crafting, adventuring. A player should be able to experience everything the game has to offer, but not every character should have the ability to do everything in the game, and one player shouldn't be able to accomplish what should need a partner or group to achieve.
- Don't place imaginary restrictions on content. This is often seen in Eastern games, like FFXIV for example. They have a weekly cap on what a player can earn, whether it is faction or currency. It makes it so a lot of the players log in to get their cap and then they're done for the week (often accomplished within a day or so).
- Enjoyable end-game content. Doesn't have to be specifically combat related like raids. A lot of us have been there/done that with raids. We enjoy it. But in-between the raids, make sure there's something else for us to be able to work towards.
- Plan for the long game. Don't allow me to progress and grind to the best gear within a week, or month, of release. Make me work for it. I don't mean make the RNG abysmal for drops, but make it so that we feel like we actually had to work to get the stuff we really want. (Example was the Prismatic weapon quest line from EQ2 - took some people weeks/months to get them, and not because of RNG).
No endgame.
There should be a very high skillcap.
I always strive to better myself, if I am too close to playing flawless I start to lose interest in the game. Having action based combat is already a pro in that regard.
Make Dungeons, Raids, Challenge Modes, PvP, ...) that truly embrace this notion.
There should always be some form of progression, especially longer lasting progression, that doesn't completely reset upon every new patch.
For instance in current WoW, pretty much all your gear progression or Artifact/Azerite Power progression gets soft reset every new content patch.
So if you want to stay on "top" you have to pretty much redo everything again once a new patch drops.
Obviously new content needs to offer good alternative gear or improved gear over the old ones, so people have an incentive to actually run it, it however shouldn't be night and day.
If I take a pause from the game and come back 3 months later and my entire gear/power is invalidated and I start back from square one it does feel horrible.
Also I heavily dislike RNG looting in PvE and PvP which got even more problematic via items being able to enhance on a % chance. As well as grinding some "Power" that just soft reset next patch so people could catch up easily, made me slowly burn out.
Make it possible to reach BiS, make it really hard so you can only reach that state shortly before a new patch drops, maybe make it based on IDs, so you can't nolife too hard for it and have time to play other characters or embrace other aspects of the game, but don't do something like endless Mythic+ grinding in WoW, where you nonstop grind Mythic+ for a chance to get the correct item and it titanforging. (Once again this is only relevant for the absolute highest competition since at times it's less than a 0,5% power change.
If you want an endless grind/power maybe this is an okay approach to it?
Maybe you can spend 80 Champion/Paragon/Power Levels to increase your character, but you can grind beyond Level 80, that doesn't give you an immediate effect, but next patch leveling gets SLIGHTLY easier and the cap raises to 100 of these Levels that you can spend on your Character.
That way I can preemptively level a bit or much before a new patch drops, but as a hardcore player I don't get any advantage till the next patch actually drops. That way people that "nolife" don't get any advantage in that regard and don't force competitive players to do the same or quit since they simply cannot compete thanks to a lack of time/no interest in grinding like crazy.
By making it slightly easier to gain XP for instance increase the XP gained by 50%-200%? (Not sure about the correct amount) when a new patch drops, other people can still catch up, especially newer players, but it also didn't feel senseless to grind XP earlier, because why farm XP now when I get 5000% more XP next patch, looking at Legion where you got at the end millions if not billions of Artifact Power that made all prior work done in that department meaningless.
One of the only things I liked from WoW professions were things like daily or weekly cd to create certain materials/items in that profession.
Since you could only have 2 primary professions if you wanted to create multiple of these or for different professions you had to level the profession on an alt character.
This gave you reason to level new characters, won't make you stick forever, but it gives more incentive to play new characters.
Probably it's better to make it a weekly cd, since being forced to log in every day is a drag.
For PvP, there being a rated system is very important to me.
Since I like competing with others I do enjoy creating certain goals (ranking I want to achieve) and then actually doing it felt great and gave me long term goals in the game. Make the rating non capped so I always can place higher goals for myself or as a team.
Giving rewards for high rating is imho a great way to make people also play the content that are less interested in the competition, but more interested in the loot or in collecting certain items, as well as rewarding the best players rather than the players with the most time.
Not entirely sure if it should be the only way to get the very best PvP gear or not, as I can see some people not liking that. Maybe they have ranked anxiety or they simply don't enjoy playing arena or the likes.
If you build a castle or the likes, make it so you are never done with the castle, there should always be some improvement to be done (after a certain point very limited though) or parts of it need to be repaired or costs for it to stay the way it is.
Guild wars, Sieges should offer some rewards, needs to be done very carefully, since this is very prone to be abused.
Don't let people change servers/realms at all with their current character.
If someone ruins his reputation on a server, they are free to start new somewhere else, but for the price of leaving their old character behind.
In that same regard don't let people name change freely or make their old name appear next to their new name for a little while.
If there is a block option in the game instead/on top of an ignore option make that apply to all characters of an account.
I don't want to interact with a person I blocked/ignored when he's on a different character.
Building up your reputation as a character on a realm/server should be a big deal.
Don't make leveling to big of a drag? For instance World of Warcraft classic just released and the leveling part is very off putting for me.
The time it takes to get to max level is kinda long especially since it's imho super boring and easy. There is no challenge, it's only tedious.
Quests are at times so horrible written that you are required to get an addon that showcases the locations or to check the quests on the net. Drinking/regen after every single trash fight doesn't make the game hard, it just makes it take longer. Oh you pulled too many mobs? You better run away or die. Give me ways to deal with these situations, but don't necessary make it the best option to level by killing multiple mobs at the same time. Looking at bdo, where you masspull nonstop and just AoE all of them down.
Dungeons are just tank and spank, same with raids, take a more modern approach.
I'd to have interactive combat while leveling, let me dodge abilities and the likes.
I mostly enjoy endgame activities, so if leveling takes too long or is mere tedious rather than interactive and challenging, I might lose interest in the game before reaching max level. Or I will not level a new character even if I don't like my current one and might just simply quit then.
Of course there should be things to still grind for at max level like new spells/gear/paragon levels or whatever.
Class design/Combat design.
I have to enjoy the way my class plays, if I don't enjoy the way my class plays I will not play the class anymore no matter how good everything else is. If I then dislike leveling/gearing up a new class I will quit the game, rather than try a new class out.
Give us good options to test classes before launch, make some good guides/videos how they are played in different parts of the game like PvP and PvE.
Be very careful with reworking classes. Changing too much can completely destroy the class fantasy and ruin the class for many players.
Don't do afk progression where you are forced to leave your game open for extended periods of time without actively playing. Quests like play 5 hours today are horrible, your workers only working while you are online is horrible.
No P2W, pay for comfort debatable, pay for cosmetics fine.
Oh yeah and absolutely limit RNG, don't do things like downranking or destroying items based on RNG. Don't do too many boxes with random items in it and if you do then make them have similar worth.
To me, a great crafting system would allow crafting at all levels to be viable and be needed. It would also be something that took some work to be good at. It shouldn't be something a fighter main can easily do on an Alt. Fighters should need to come to the crafters to get their equipment repaired and crafted.
I am not a great fan of auction houses. It just isolates the crafters from the buyers. It was great for the fighters that only wanted to kill stuff and not interact with the crafters. They could stand in one place and find and buy the sword they wanted then return to the killing. I prefer the system that AoC appears to be using. That being a player shop or bazaar. That way people might meet and get to know the crafters and maybe place special orders in the future. If crafting can be as complex as fighting classes are supposed to be, we should have a good system. If you can get a good crafting system I might keep playing, finances willing, where I might have lost interest in the game in other ways.
I like where the fighting classes are headed on paper. If there is a combination that can come most playstyles we should be good.
That being said, I will share my opinion but keep what I said in mind if you read this Toast, here goes:
In my opinion and from my experience, what makes people come back to MMO's is a sense of character development and overall growth while still having that risk of losing, not losing the character of course but of losing something which in turn acts as a form of growth. For example, there's a game that used to be around.. Until EA gutted it due to poor advertisement on their end and declining player count. It was a game based in the Ultima series called Lord of Ultima, the now defunct browser game functioned similarly to Evony but worked on a slightly faster scale and had better artwork, gameplay etc. You could slowly and surely grow an entire kingdom over a week and eventually build a new city which led to more management, more growth and more time played as well as more and more of a desire to play. Eventually, other players would notice you and begin to roleplay, sending you letters and the such and some becoming allies and some enemies. Coalitions would form, complex political landscapes would form and the players created an amazing world together that lasted until the game servers were shut down by EA.
What you need to take from this is that communities are fostered by game mechanics that allow them to do what I just spoke about, to engage in the world around them and build interesting monopolies off of their time spent playing. Time spent must be rewarded and rewarded in such a way where it doesn't feel like a chore.. Something MMO's today have failed. There. Must. Be. Character. Development..
Here's an example of a failure in this regard: World of Warcraft
In today's retail WoW the only thing that keeps some players playing in patch 8.2 is the raiding content and Mythic+ content. I speak from experience, there is no other reason to play. The PVP system has become defunct, rated battlegrounds have 5+ minute queues and elitists dominate the brackets that they have circlejerked to oblivion. Mythic+, Azerite grinding and Raiding content is the ONLY reason some people log on every week and it feels like a chore. A slow inexorable grind that leads to no enjoyment once or ever but just a slow diminishing decay of your will to play. This isn't Stickiness, it's.. A. Chore.
In contrast, "classic" had the talent system it had gear that scaled only slightly in stats it had no instant gratification and you had to EARN your character development. You grew with your character and actually felt engaged in the world like you were a part of it, it didn't feel like some disconnected power chore.
Now onto something people will undoubtedly scream at me for saying:
Combat is integral to the game, Ashes combat system at the moment (at least when I played it a while back) does NOT work. Now, I only played the apocalypse beta back when it originally released but from my time spent playing it people could two shot players with bows and the combat system over-all didn't feel rewarding in the long-term but like a short-term power trip that was ended the moment a player ran up behind you and smacked you with that new sword. There was no long-term fulfillment, no character growth, no development.. Just PuBG.
This isn't mean't as an insult, this is genuinely how I felt playing the beta.
The game's aesthetics were also questionable, I looked at a lot of the models for the swords, armors, etc and didn't know how to feel. One part of me thought this was a sci-fi game and the other part of me thought this was some final fantasy version of PuBG. You need a clear, defined art-style unique to your game and your game alone. DO NOT take from other games, do not be too "unique or elegant" in your artstyle. Do what makes sense in a medieval fantasy setting, think about it from the game's setting when it will release. The world ended, everything died and people are just now coming back after what must of been thousands of years. People will be wearing scraps of clothing, ragged, poor, impoverished. All of the knowledge they knew is gone, all of the things they knew are gone.. It's a dark age full of re-learning and poverty. Stick to that and be critical about your artstyles, don't do anything that doesn't fit the local enviroment.
I don't mind having to do some grind and value having goals of long term progression, but I don't like excessive grinding, character level, gear, or otherwise. Let gear be usable by all character on an account. Don't make gear a long never ending grind that new players or non no-lifers will never catch up to those with the best gear. Those who don't do hard content don't need the best gear, but I'd like to see diminishing returns on the best gear so that gear does not outweigh skill just because someone was lucky or spent an ungodly amount of time. Short bursts of grinding or one long grind then being able to enjoy endgame is okay. Too much grinding will make me quit as a I don't need a 2nd job tyvm, and most games with excessive grinding put it there to encourage buying into p2w options to skip the grind. If Ashes is going to be a subscription model, it doesn't need anymore grind than the minimum it takes for people to keep running the hamster wheel of feeling some kind of occasional progression. I like being able to progress and think its important to have longterm goals to work towards and earn, but don't like spending time to reachieve what I already had. I don't mind having to grind some, but grinding is inherently boring gameplay that I can only tolerate so much of. I don't like when the progression aspect of an MMO requires doing things that are not fun and requires more time spent progressing than actually doing what is fun. Basically, make what is done to progress fun or don't require too much forced boring gameplay before players can enjoy fun gameplay (i.e. endgame raiding and competitive pvp).
Another great feature is when players can progress in advance, or their previous progression does not become meaningless later on. If a player is at max level, let them store excess experience so that when a new level cap comes, they might already be max level or close if they had already played a lot previously. This especially helps with returning player. If someone gets MMO burn out or needs to take a break due to irl, then they won't feel intimidated to return if their previous work is rewarded. This doesn't mean letting there be infinite progression until no-lifers are demi-gods, but just letting players work towards the next cap while the current cap is in place and they retain the stats of the current cap. Something that might also be good would be the ability to upgrade gear to higher levels than it dropped or was crafted at. If you get a legendary max out level 50 weapon, but the cap increases to 60, it would feel more special and meaningful if a master weaponsmith could take materials used to repair the weapon to improve it to the new level cap so it does not become useless. The upgraded old best weapon may not be quite as good as the shiniest new best weapon, but it could be competitive.
Of course combat/gameplay in general being fun is critical to continuing to play an MMO.
Basically the TL:DR of this messy, unorganized post is that I will play a game longer if: it is alt friendly, progress is made by participating in fun content and/or doesn't have too much grinding, and combat/gameplay must be fun and enjoyable.
The problem with using alternative classes for creating replay-ability is that it's not replay-ability nor is it actually sustainable in the long run. World of warcraft has done exactly what you just stated in retail and look at what's happening. The issue with "grinding" is that they never make it fun, it's usually a boring repetitive activity that leads to little to no progress or change in game play of any sort. Paragon levels in MMO's were added into some games to remedy grinding by making leveling an ever growing mechanic but the flaw in this is evident as those players become some level 500 monster truck.
That being said, instant gratification is an issue in gaming and I feel like you've become a victim of it. There's a pleasure in working towards something instead of just instantly getting it, if you instantly get a max level alt then you didn't really do anything to earn that max level alt and it takes away from the game's enjoyment.
The industry and various gaming communities try to separate players into casual and hardcore groups and use this label to try and diminish opinions such as yours by calling such views "casual views". So in short, if you said what you just said on a classic WoW forum someone would likely make a toxic remark and call you a casual player, therefore for whatever reason turning your entire argument moot and branding you as a casual in their community. Obviously, this isn't such a forum and people here should be more civil. As such, let me explain why the casual and hardcore mindset is an issue if my above description didn't bring it in.
You have the carrot and you have the stick, you cannot have the stick without the carrot or the carrot without the stick. If I simply gave you the carrot you would be instantly gratified and would have no reason to keep playing as you've burnt out your dopamine receptors for that task, as such doing the same thing will provide less and less dopamine and produce more and more boredom. Simply put, I cannot give you the carrot as then I would have to beat you with the stick to keep you playing and eventually you'll be tired of the stick and run away.
Instead, the stick is held in front of the player and the carrot is something they have to earn. It's bait. It isn't given instantly and they have to chase it enough times to actually catch it. This is what makes an effective MMO, you need a reason to play it and that reason can't be instantly gratified or you'll get bored and leave after less then a month. Single player games get away with giving you the carrot instantly because they are not intended to have replay-ability, when they do they add additional bait in the form of trophies and awards with the knowledge that such will only last a short time before a new game must be made.
Simply put, instant gratification does not work in an MMO. Time must be spent and that must be rewarded slowly over time, time spent is gratification and not the opposite.
2) Atmosphere - enough players and NPCs to make the world feel alive (i.e. no ghost towns with just players and 5 quest givers)
3) Unique goals - progression that helps me be more of an individual (i.e. not everyone going for the same gear or gear set at max level)
- Frufire
If you target the most competitive players this is enough, but not all players like it. If players feel they are unique on that server, they will keep playing. Hidden treasures, difficult to master and luck based tinkering, exciting and dynamic gathering can attract players who love to take it easy in an MMORPG.
For me, the main reasons to keep playing are meaningful competitiveness, hard to get items and a sense of community. If you can discourage toxicity and encourage kindness, the AoC community will be the safe heaven for MMORPG lovers.
Good market with proper economy.
So I'll be able to make my own business in the game
Not saying ashes needs this system exactly but I'm sure there's some sort of good weekly reward that isn't mandatory (it was 7 heroic dungeonsruns/week with raids being a substitute for 4-5 of them) so if u wanted to do one a day u could if u could only play on weekends you could still remain relevant.) For people vendor gear.
I think weekly rewards for a core activity that's easily accessed from anywhere is a great way to keep people coming back without it feeling bad.
1. Content that is a bit harder and or requires more thought.
2. Good PvP.
3. Good Class balance.
4. The ability to jump in at any time and find the above listed.
If the combat doesnt feel fun to me everything else doesnt matter. But having interesting side quests, beautiful areas, and appealing and sharp armor designs helps. As well as fun housing for past time
I play games primarily to PVP and progression allows me to do PVP better and win more.
The caravan system provides an opportunity for both pvp and a way to progress. Progression doesn't need to be drastic if it offers PVP and is fun.
The other thing that I would look for is challenging content and mysteries. I would love to see a dungeon network so vast that it takes over an hour on a mount to get to the "end" if you know the right path. I want there to be locations that regardless of how geared or experienced I am it still makes me nervous.
Those are the type of things that keep you coming back for more
Also little things that can be done afk or completed in like 15-30mins like crafting or mini tasks around town for the days you only got a little bit of time
Good Progression. Content that is not Rushed out. I'd rather have no new content than bad new content.
Difficulty that makes sense. I don't really want to go from 1 dungeon to the next linear one and it either be too hard or too easy. While also having gear close to the recommended max of that level. I also want a gear reward relevant to the difficulty of the content being done. I don't want to do the hardest stuff in the game just for gear the same level as a previous easy dungeon. Though depending on the absolute highest level content I am fine with only cosmetics dropping from the highest caliber stuff. Basically challenge dungeons not meant for progression.
It being possible to find a group and the game having systems to enhance the experience. Basically I want to be able to control how big the chat boxes are to the utmost highest degree. So I can look at multiple chat channels and it not take up the entire screen. With the possibility on each chat log to have tabs to other chats.
PvP not feeling super unfair. I know certain classes will have advantages but if they are too extreme then it will feel stupid whenever you are hard countered. The things I heard are already a good direction to prevent this. Damage values being low in the game and HP values being kinda high can also limit this further.
Cosmetics being good. Asian MMO gear all looks the same or like garbage. Half the things in WoW look stupid. The better everything looks the better. Even at the lowest tier of items. The gear looks should progress and I don't mind looking like a homeless bum at level 10. However what it actually looks like should look the same quality at all parts of the game. I don't think any other game has actually achieved this, but single player games. So good goal to keep in mind.
These are a basic idea of what would keep me coming back. I think the standards for MMOs are just higher than other games. Good Luck. =3
U.S. East
- Rare chase items or crafts that hard to obtain (carrot on a stick).
- Immersion in the world, world atmosphere.
- Character customization.
- Activities to do in the game, mostly PvE dungeons !