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Why does no MMORPG ever implement the shield and spear weapon combination?

2

Comments

  • VarkunVarkun Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One

    Steven 😇Today at 10:52 PM
    One handed spears will be a thing in the future.

    Seems it will be so the sandle god has spoken today on discord.
    3KAqRIf.png
    Close your eyes spread your arms and always trust your cape.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Varkun wrote: »
    Steven 😇Today at 10:52 PM
    One handed spears will be a thing in the future.

    Seems it will be so the sandle god has spoken today on discord.
    Oh so you get spears but I get no undead. Dam you steven!
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Varkun wrote: »
    Steven 😇Today at 10:52 PM
    One handed spears will be a thing in the future.

    Seems it will be so the sandle god has spoken today on discord.

    THE SPEAR REVOLUTION HAS BEGUN BROTHERS! ONE STEP AT A TIME. TODAY SPEARS, TOMORROW... BOLT-THROWERS!
    a6XEiIf.gif
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Damokles wrote: »
    Varkun wrote: »
    Steven 😇Today at 10:52 PM
    One handed spears will be a thing in the future.

    Seems it will be so the sandle god has spoken today on discord.

    THE SPEAR REVOLUTION HAS BEGUN BROTHERS! ONE STEP AT A TIME. TODAY SPEARS, TOMORROW... BOLT-THROWERS!

    so....... A crossbow ^_^
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Nagash wrote: »
    Damokles wrote: »
    Varkun wrote: »
    Steven 😇Today at 10:52 PM
    One handed spears will be a thing in the future.

    Seems it will be so the sandle god has spoken today on discord.

    THE SPEAR REVOLUTION HAS BEGUN BROTHERS! ONE STEP AT A TIME. TODAY SPEARS, TOMORROW... BOLT-THROWERS!

    so....... A crossbow ^_^

    I dont mean those flimsy little stick throwers! I mean true bolt-throwers. Like those from Bioshock or Dead Space!
    a6XEiIf.gif
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Damokles wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    Damokles wrote: »
    Varkun wrote: »
    Steven 😇Today at 10:52 PM
    One handed spears will be a thing in the future.

    Seems it will be so the sandle god has spoken today on discord.

    THE SPEAR REVOLUTION HAS BEGUN BROTHERS! ONE STEP AT A TIME. TODAY SPEARS, TOMORROW... BOLT-THROWERS!

    so....... A crossbow ^_^

    I dont mean those flimsy little stick throwers! I mean true bolt-throwers. Like those from Bioshock or Dead Space!

    this is a bolt thrower

    alex-filvet-1-6.jpg?1547836439
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • VarkunVarkun Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Honestly there are going to be so many weapons in AOC but we likes that.
    3KAqRIf.png
    Close your eyes spread your arms and always trust your cape.
  • MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Birdie wrote: »
    Because in most games, spears are two handed weapons. Spears can only be used while in formation to keep the enemy troops in a distance. Also strong against cavalry. However it's not useful in 1v1 combat. You can't win with a spear and a shield!
    (That's the realistic point of view of course)

    The spear is the single most effective 1v1 medieval weapon. Amateurs with Spears have been known to defeat masters with swords. What you are referring to, is a pike.
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Marzzo wrote: »
    Birdie wrote: »
    Because in most games, spears are two handed weapons. Spears can only be used while in formation to keep the enemy troops in a distance. Also strong against cavalry. However it's not useful in 1v1 combat. You can't win with a spear and a shield!
    (That's the realistic point of view of course)

    The spear is the single most effective 1v1 medieval weapon. Amateurs with Spears have been known to defeat masters with swords. What you are referring to, is a pike.

    but isn't that with two hands, not one?
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Marzzo wrote: »
    Birdie wrote: »
    Because in most games, spears are two handed weapons. Spears can only be used while in formation to keep the enemy troops in a distance. Also strong against cavalry. However it's not useful in 1v1 combat. You can't win with a spear and a shield!
    (That's the realistic point of view of course)

    The spear is the single most effective 1v1 medieval weapon. Amateurs with Spears have been known to defeat masters with swords. What you are referring to, is a pike.

    but isn't that with two hands, not one?

    The pike is indeed the one, where you use two hands, while the spear requires one at the minimum. There are even pikes that are held by a multitude of people!
    a6XEiIf.gif
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Damokles wrote: »
    Marzzo wrote: »
    Birdie wrote: »
    Because in most games, spears are two handed weapons. Spears can only be used while in formation to keep the enemy troops in a distance. Also strong against cavalry. However it's not useful in 1v1 combat. You can't win with a spear and a shield!
    (That's the realistic point of view of course)

    The spear is the single most effective 1v1 medieval weapon. Amateurs with Spears have been known to defeat masters with swords. What you are referring to, is a pike.

    but isn't that with two hands, not one?

    The pike is indeed the one, where you use two hands, while the spear requires one at the minimum. There are even pikes that are held by a multitude of people!

    My question was more at the spears 1v1 effectiveness. I know spears are effective with one hand in a formation but in a 1v1 fight, i'd think it's effectiveness would go down if you were still only controlling it with one hand.
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Damokles wrote: »
    Marzzo wrote: »
    Birdie wrote: »
    Because in most games, spears are two handed weapons. Spears can only be used while in formation to keep the enemy troops in a distance. Also strong against cavalry. However it's not useful in 1v1 combat. You can't win with a spear and a shield!
    (That's the realistic point of view of course)

    The spear is the single most effective 1v1 medieval weapon. Amateurs with Spears have been known to defeat masters with swords. What you are referring to, is a pike.

    but isn't that with two hands, not one?

    The pike is indeed the one, where you use two hands, while the spear requires one at the minimum. There are even pikes that are held by a multitude of people!

    My question was more at the spears 1v1 effectiveness. I know spears are effective with one hand in a formation but in a 1v1 fight, i'd think it's effectiveness would go down if you were still only controlling it with one hand.

    Not really. The spear gives you a majour range advantage, and if the spear wielder knows how to keep that advantage and fight to his strength then the sword wielder finds really fast that he is outmatched.
    A two handed spear has added flexibility though, which the onehanded spear lacks.

    So lets recap: spears are strong as long as you can actually keep your distance, while the sword stomps on it the second he can close in.
    a6XEiIf.gif
  • nefelianefelia Member, Intrepid Pack
    Everyone is focusing on Euro-centric use of spear and shield, but there are other notable examples of how well the combination works in combat. The Zulu kingdom is a good example. With lighter shields and light-weight spears they were very quick and agile in combat.
    Sadly, no amount of agility could overcome the might of the Gatling Gun.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    nefelia wrote: »
    Everyone is focusing on Euro-centric use of spear and shield, but there are other notable examples of how well the combination works in combat. The Zulu kingdom is a good example. With lighter shields and light-weight spears they were very quick and agile in combat.
    Sadly, no amount of agility could overcome the might of the Gatling Gun.

    Glory to the empire

    1445621342065.jpg
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • I'd imagine out of all the options out there, it's basically a popularity contest and the Spear/Shield combo lost.

  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I just had a great idea

    d64f660e2e78db9583e0e081955ea2d7.jpg


    double spear combo
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Nagash wrote: »
    I just had a great idea

    d64f660e2e78db9583e0e081955ea2d7.jpg


    double spear combo

    What is better then one spear? TWO SPEARS, DOUBLE THE PENETRATION!
    a6XEiIf.gif
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Damokles wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    I just had a great idea

    d64f660e2e78db9583e0e081955ea2d7.jpg


    double spear combo

    What is better then one spear? TWO SPEARS, DOUBLE THE PENETRATION!

    fscawb3tiz521.jpg
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • Varkun wrote: »
    Steven 😇Today at 10:52 PM
    One handed spears will be a thing in the future.

    Seems it will be so the sandle god has spoken today on discord.

    So glad to hear that!
  • as a full time mage dps (my entire gaming life ive been elven mage if possible XD)
    i always am upset about 2 things :

    1: not all mages are not in need of walking stick please get rid of the need for staff! this is a stereotype!
    2: i want to be able to have staff + shield <3:D
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    caedwyn wrote: »
    as a full time mage dps (my entire gaming life ive been elven mage if possible XD)
    i always am upset about 2 things :

    1: not all mages are not in need of walking stick please get rid of the need for staff! this is a stereotype!
    2: i want to be able to have staff + shield <3:D

    ^^

    mage_knight_by_wanderways_dcp0ik5-pre.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9MTUxMiIsInBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2Y3MDM5ZDBlLWE2ZWEtNGVhOC04OWQyLTg0ZGZmMWJiOTQxMVwvZGNwMGlrNS03NTIxYzBiMS1kMmRkLTQ4M2QtOGY1ZC0wYTdjNDg3YjExMTgucG5nIiwid2lkdGgiOiI8PTk5NSJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19.XtKnWQx6d63HJWaQTkaYhGa3VSShaZ4_wlUz-HkVhD8

    5caa172e75d7fcc0369b431ab53c224a.png

    6194055-4003624786-2deba.jpg

    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    caedwyn wrote: »
    as a full time mage dps (my entire gaming life ive been elven mage if possible XD)
    i always am upset about 2 things :

    1: not all mages are not in need of walking stick please get rid of the need for staff! this is a stereotype!
    2: i want to be able to have staff + shield <3:D

    A wand + shield should be possible i imagine xD
    You should ask them in the next livestream!
    a6XEiIf.gif
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Nagash wrote: »
    6194055-4003624786-2deba.jpg
    Harry Dresden doesn’t count.

    That’s not staff and shield, that’s staff and bracelet!
     
    Hhak63P.png
  • Final_RemainsFinal_Remains Member
    edited September 2019
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=tAtbzV8CTV0

    There was a reason that the spear was the dominant weapon for the majority of civilisation... And it wasn't just because it was cost/ material effective.

    The spear has a lot of advantages over a sword and anyone suggesting they were only used in formation is mistaken.

    Not that it's realistic, but to see a 'Troy' type spear user (the fight between Achilles and Hector) in a mmorpg would be dope.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Atama wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    6194055-4003624786-2deba.jpg
    Harry Dresden doesn’t count.

    That’s not staff and shield, that’s staff and bracelet!

    Its a magic shield ^^
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Nagash wrote: »
    Atama wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    6194055-4003624786-2deba.jpg
    Harry Dresden doesn’t count.

    That’s not staff and shield, that’s staff and bracelet!

    Its a magic shield ^^

    That should fall under crafting/enchanting!
    a6XEiIf.gif
  • WizardTimWizardTim Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited September 2019
    Damokles wrote: »
    Seriously guys!
    The only class to use a "spear" (more like a lance) and shield in an MMORPG, at least as far as i know, is the lancer from Tera...
    It would be really cool, if tanks had the ability to specc into holding a spear in one hand and a shield in another, like a spartan hoplite.
    They could give the spear slower attackspeed or something in return, but i really like the idea of forcing the enemy to keep his distance.

    So~ I'm not gonna read the entire thread before posting this bu~t have you ever tried wielding a spear one handed?

    I have. It's awkward and you get virtually no power out of a thrust. It's also slower one handed and can easily be deflected by a sword. The reason sword and board is so much more powerful than sword and spear is because swords are specifically designed to be 1 handed weapons, and are excellent in defensive handling whether or not you have a shield.

    Spears (and polearms in general) are superior weapons when wielded with 2 hands. However they are not effective one handed weapons, and rely HEAVILY on formations when wielded one handed. More because it's not just YOUR spear stabbing an enemy, it's also the spear of the guy behind you, and the guy behind him.

    So unless you're wielding a lighter short spear and a lighter shield (buckler or something like that), you're heavily disadvantaged in 1vs1 combat with that combination. You need to be able to move, aim, thrust with power, and evade as well as block, or you'll die.

    You only gain reach as an advantage by over extending your weapon, the further you extend, the less power you have. Since you only have 1 hand/arm to apply power/control over it, you can't gain reach as an advantage without, well, dying because your very weak and awkwardly aimed attack was easily knocked off course, leaving you mostly open to a counter attack you can't ward off because your spear point is past your opponent and your shield is being slammed out of the way by your opponent's shield.
  • I really like this Idea. Lookds pretty cool in movies like 300 and gladiator.
  • VentharienVentharien Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited November 2019
    Historically and logically speaking, Spears are a much more versatile weapon than swords. In reality, swords are pretty much useless (when used in their cutting capacity) against even lighter types of armor, like chain, While spears are quite effective. Swords were more often used by nobility and higher ranking officers, and in legends, magic swords, and heroes who weild them are pretty rampant. So i could see why that translated into games, where generally speaking, we are the heroes. I wish it was better represented in more games too!
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I thought swords v armor is more about chopping rather than slicing?
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