@Selo I didn't care to read through all comments for this quick information.
According to Steven everything that is not automatically used on something is action combat.
So if you place down some aoe that you have to manually place on the ground, it's already action combat.
Take that as you will, we will see how the combat will feel.
I can be a life fulfilling dream. - Zekece
I can be a life devouring nightmare. - Grisu#1819
I know a lot of kids scream for action combat, but not even half of them can work with or are any decent with tab targeting. So i am fine with just tab or something like in GW2.
No tab target only pls it doesn't expand the audience at all. It appeals to relaxing back and mashing buttons and macros. It's really great to have both and give options. A lot of people who would have completely disregarded the game before will check it out if it has nice normal combat. Most games that the majority of younger people are playing now aren't tab target at all. So if they're forced to use that they won't even give the game a chance. People have their preferences and choice is good, tab targeting has it's upsides and downsides just as action combat has it's ups and downs. It's great to have them both to appeal to both sides, just as long as they're both viable and functional .
No tab target only pls it doesn't expand the audience at all. It appeals to relaxing back and mashing buttons and macros. It's really great to have both and give options. A lot of people who would have completely disregarded the game before will check it out if it has nice normal combat. Most games that the majority of younger people are playing now aren't tab target at all. So if they're forced to use that they won't even give the game a chance. People have their preferences and choice is good, tab targeting has it's upsides and downsides just as action combat has it's ups and downs. It's great to have them both to appeal to both sides, just as long as they're both viable and functional .
Steven already confirmed that the game wont be pure action combat, they are working on a hybrid system and if that wont work he is fine with just tab!
@Selo I didn't care to read through all comments for this quick information.
According to Steven everything that is not automatically used on something is action combat.
So if you place down some aoe that you have to manually place on the ground, it's already action combat.
Take that as you will, we will see how the combat will feel.
Tab target/action combat % will have a big impact on my choice of class.
I played an elementalist in GW2, worst choice ive ever made in an mmorpg.
The crazy spam and buttonmashing and people just strafing 1cm to the side so all your projectiles missed..
Placing a huge GTAoE spell with action combat is fine, but if combat will be anything like BR/Fortnite bunnyjumping, buttonmashing and LoS twitching..yea the game will die in 3 months.
@Selo I didn't care to read through all comments for this quick information.
According to Steven everything that is not automatically used on something is action combat.
So if you place down some aoe that you have to manually place on the ground, it's already action combat.
Take that as you will, we will see how the combat will feel.
Tab target/action combat % will have a big impact on my choice of class.
I played an elementalist in GW2, worst choice ive ever made in an mmorpg.
The crazy spam and buttonmashing and people just strafing 1cm to the side so all your projectiles missed..
Placing a huge GTAoE spell with action combat is fine, but if combat will be anything like BR/Fortnite bunnyjumping, buttonmashing and LoS twitching..yea the game will die in 3 months.
How is tab targeting any different from that ? You strafe with tab targeting and you also just smash buttons as well. The only difference being you don't have to actively aim anything, it's done for you so it takes an element of skill away. How old are you by chance ? literally every single huge game ever has action combat, and only mmorpgs that have to appeal to the veteran audience only have tab targeting. Hence why the genre hasn't exploded in growth like say, BRS. To most younger newer people TAB targeting feels SO dull and so slow and it shows so much less skill than if you just added a simple element of aiming to it. That adds so many extra levels of skill.
Imagine CSGO except it aimed for you, but you just had to manage the timing and rotations of reloading and weapon switching.
Although it seems you just ignore anything that makes sense, like only appealing to people who have been playing mmorpgs for 20 + years and have families and jobs isn't the way to revitalize and grow the industry. It may be a good way to appeal to the smaller mmorpg audience but that's it, the game could be large in the mmorpg community but aside from that it couldn't. That's clearly evident with the "Good" tab targeting games that bring in hardly any new players.
@Selo I didn't care to read through all comments for this quick information.
According to Steven everything that is not automatically used on something is action combat.
So if you place down some aoe that you have to manually place on the ground, it's already action combat.
Take that as you will, we will see how the combat will feel.
Tab target/action combat % will have a big impact on my choice of class.
I played an elementalist in GW2, worst choice ive ever made in an mmorpg.
The crazy spam and buttonmashing and people just strafing 1cm to the side so all your projectiles missed..
Placing a huge GTAoE spell with action combat is fine, but if combat will be anything like BR/Fortnite bunnyjumping, buttonmashing and LoS twitching..yea the game will die in 3 months.
How is tab targeting any different from that ? You strafe with tab targeting and you also just smash buttons as well. The only difference being you don't have to actively aim anything, it's done for you so it takes an element of skill away. How old are you by chance ? literally every single huge game ever has action combat, and only mmorpgs that have to appeal to the veteran audience only have tab targeting. Hence why the genre hasn't exploded in growth like say, BRS. To most younger newer people TAB targeting feels SO dull and so slow and it shows so much less skill than if you just added a simple element of aiming to it. That adds so many extra levels of skill.
Imagine CSGO except it aimed for you, but you just had to manage the timing and rotations of reloading and weapon switching.
Although it seems you just ignore anything that makes sense, like only appealing to people who have been playing mmorpgs for 20 + years and have families and jobs isn't the way to revitalize and grow the industry. It may be a good way to appeal to the smaller mmorpg audience but that's it, the game could be large in the mmorpg community but aside from that it couldn't. That's clearly evident with the "Good" tab targeting games that bring in hardly any new players.
just..don't bother with him. Obviously he has issues.
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AzathothMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I would argue that BRs are more popular with youth, over the older audiences, because of attention span. But, I could be as wrong as others making assumptions.
I would argue that BRs are more popular with youth, over the older audiences, because of attention span. But, I could be as wrong as others making assumptions.
Not attention span so much as ease of entry and convenience. It’s much simpler to fit a 15-20minute match in every now and then than devoting hours to a single player game, even, and maybe especially, in the case of adults with limited playtime.
I would argue that BRs are more popular with youth, over the older audiences, because of attention span. But, I could be as wrong as others making assumptions.
You are right. MMORPGs are for men and women made from iron, and BRs are more for drooling kids.
Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
0
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AzathothMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I don't want every game I play to be reduced and streamlined for just the players that want "ease of entry and convenience."
Is it too much to ask for games that require a couple hours at a time?
Games that have deep meaningful systems and stories that shouldn't be accomplished in 15-20 minutes?
Maybe, by making MMORPGs great again IS, and the 'mature crowd', don't want super simple ease of access and quick stories.
Maybe there are games for that. Maybe people can play multiple games at the same time to fulfill multiple gaming needs?
I don't want every game I play to be reduced and streamlined for just the players that want "ease of entry and convenience."
Is it too much to ask for games that require a couple hours at a time?
Games that have deep meaningful systems and stories that shouldn't be accomplished in 15-20 minutes?
Maybe, by making MMORPGs great again IS, and the 'mature crowd', don't want super simple ease of access and quick stories.
Maybe there are games for that. Maybe people can play multiple games at the same time to fulfill multiple gaming needs?
We were commenting about why BRs are so popular, zero to do with the MMO genre or Ashes
I would argue that BRs are more popular with youth, over the older audiences, because of attention span. But, I could be as wrong as others making assumptions.
You are right. MMORPGs are for men and women made from iron, and BRs are more for drooling kids.
"In my days, we had to crawl into the dungeons! We had to pass through multiple zones, sometimes way over our level by foot! We did not have those 'mounts' that you all are riding around on at lvl 20, one mount cost as much as three months of farming."
2
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AzathothMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
We were commenting about why BRs are so popular, zero to do with the MMO genre or Ashes
A lot of this thread has used the comparison of 'older audiences' and 'younger audiences' to justify why Tab-Target games have not 'exploded' like BR's.
My goal was to indicate that, although BR's are popular due to a very specific statement,
Not attention span so much as ease of entry and convenience. It’s much simpler to fit a 15-20minute match in every now and then than devoting hours to a single player game, even, and maybe especially, in the case of adults with limited playtime.
I would like that not to be the case with Ashes, an MMO.
Also, if we are not comparing the two genres, can we stop comparing the popularity of BR's versus MMO's to justify Action Combat being better than Tab-Target?
We were commenting about why BRs are so popular, zero to do with the MMO genre or Ashes
A lot of this thread has used the comparison of 'older audiences' and 'younger audiences' to justify why Tab-Target games have not 'exploded' like BR's.
My goal was to indicate that, although BR's are popular due to a very specific statement,
Not attention span so much as ease of entry and convenience. It’s much simpler to fit a 15-20minute match in every now and then than devoting hours to a single player game, even, and maybe especially, in the case of adults with limited playtime.
I would like that not to be the case with Ashes, an MMO.
Also, if we are not comparing the two genres, can we stop comparing the popularity of BR's versus MMO's to justify Action Combat being better than Tab-Target?
Action combat is better (in my opinion) because it lets skill make up for a gap in stats. In tab, you will almost always know after one rotation of spells if you win a fight or not, and there’s nothing you can do to win that fight besides leave, grind more gear, then come back when your stats are higher. In action, you can improve your skill or tactical approach without having to abandon the task at hand, and increase your chances of success when the there’s a stat discrepancy.
I prefer the system that does not relegate everyone to stat grinding just to take on harder content. Simply learning and having awareness should be able to make up for a couple levels’ worth of stats.
Action combat is better (in my opinion) because it lets skill make up for a gap in stats.
Different type of games need different type of skill to overcome situation when you are in worse position.
In action games it is the eye-hand coordination skill.
In chess it is the skill how many relevant forward steps you can calculate.
In a TBS games you can chose the position where you want to fight. You can bring units what counter better the enemy's units.
In an MMORPG, you have tons of skill and you can have utility potions/scrolls/items/etc. The standardized PvP games are team-games so you have mates. So you need to combine your skill, you need to communicate with your teammates. Even without aiming, you can use the LOS and the environment element to overcome your weakness.
I played in arena in WoW, we had similar gear, but in some fight I had better skills, but in some fight I did not have any chance to win, because the enemy was much better.
I played Starcraft. It was accused that it is a clicking championship, no strategic thinking is needed. But I was very bad at clicking my APM was about 60-70 (pros are about 150-200), and I was in the 2nd best league, because I played strategically.
I know that you do not want to remove anything what an MMORPG already has, but my experience is that in an action based MMORPG, you have much less character-skill to use once. As you have to aim, your mouse is not free to click on a rarely used skill what would be great in your current situation. You need to grow some more fingers or buy special equipment be able to map and use the same amount of skills. That is why I fear from the aiming in the MMOs. I like to have tons of skills even if I use them once a week.
But I am open for action based combat, I just fear from it.
Action combat is better (in my opinion) because it lets skill make up for a gap in stats.
Different type of games need different type of skill to overcome situation when you are in worse position.
In action games it is the eye-hand coordination skill.
In chess it is the skill how many relevant forward steps you can calculate.
In a TBS games you can chose the position where you want to fight. You can bring units what counter better the enemy's units.
In an MMORPG, you have tons of skill and you can have utility potions/scrolls/items/etc. The standardized PvP games are team-games so you have mates. So you need to combine your skill, you need to communicate with your teammates. Even without aiming, you can use the LOS and the environment element to overcome your weakness.
I played in arena in WoW, we had similar gear, but in some fight I had better skills, but in some fight I did not have any chance to win, because the enemy was much better.
I played Starcraft. It was accused that it is a clicking championship, no strategic thinking is needed. But I was very bad at clicking my APM was about 60-70 (pros are about 150-200), and I was in the 2nd best league, because I played strategically.
I know that you do not want to remove anything what an MMORPG already has, but my experience is that in an action based MMORPG, you have much less character-skill to use once. As you have to aim, your mouse is not free to click on a rarely used skill what would be great in your current situation. You need to grow some more fingers or buy special equipment be able to map and use the same amount of skills. That is why I fear from the aiming in the MMOs. I like to have tons of skills even if I use them once a week.
But I am open for action based combat, I just fear from it.
IS has already established that we will not be getting 50+ skills and the clutter they bring. They’ve tossed numbers around closer to ten active abilities. Your ability choices have consequences, but you can also adapt on the fly with good reflexes and creative use of those abilities. We don’t need such niche abilities that you use them only a handful of times your whole time playing.
Having to click on abilities has never felt good. Neither has having to click on enemies else every button you hit does nothing at all because godforbid it target the enemy you’re aiming at if you didn’t triple confirm that yes you would like to hit the boss thanks for asking. It just feels completely unintuitive how unresponsive that sort of system is.
Closer to ten sounds bad, where did you get that info?
I could only find a citation in wiki for fewer than 30.
I think its quite easy to manage 30ish abilities in tab but for action combat I think fewer will be fluid.
You have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, §, q, e, r, t f, g, caps, mmb, (z, x) keybinds unmodded w/ basic equipment + F1-F4 depending on keyboard.
You should never click on abilities no matter how many there were.
"You're seeking for perfection, but your disillusions are leading to destruction.
You're bleeding for salvation, but you can't see that you are the damnation itself." -Norther
Comments
According to Steven everything that is not automatically used on something is action combat.
So if you place down some aoe that you have to manually place on the ground, it's already action combat.
Take that as you will, we will see how the combat will feel.
I can be a life devouring nightmare. - Grisu#1819
could could would would should should. Lets just see what comes out of it.
Steven already confirmed that the game wont be pure action combat, they are working on a hybrid system and if that wont work he is fine with just tab!
Giving up on Kingdom Death?
I play both. been a Warhammer fan for over 20 years now
its a tabletop war game
Warhammer is one of the more fun board games to watch.
plus try playing a game of apocalypse on a table
Im one of those mad people who has a robot (warlord titan)
Tab target/action combat % will have a big impact on my choice of class.
I played an elementalist in GW2, worst choice ive ever made in an mmorpg.
The crazy spam and buttonmashing and people just strafing 1cm to the side so all your projectiles missed..
Placing a huge GTAoE spell with action combat is fine, but if combat will be anything like BR/Fortnite bunnyjumping, buttonmashing and LoS twitching..yea the game will die in 3 months.
0dbea148-8cb8-4711-ba90-eb0864e93b5f
How is tab targeting any different from that ? You strafe with tab targeting and you also just smash buttons as well. The only difference being you don't have to actively aim anything, it's done for you so it takes an element of skill away. How old are you by chance ? literally every single huge game ever has action combat, and only mmorpgs that have to appeal to the veteran audience only have tab targeting. Hence why the genre hasn't exploded in growth like say, BRS. To most younger newer people TAB targeting feels SO dull and so slow and it shows so much less skill than if you just added a simple element of aiming to it. That adds so many extra levels of skill.
Imagine CSGO except it aimed for you, but you just had to manage the timing and rotations of reloading and weapon switching.
Although it seems you just ignore anything that makes sense, like only appealing to people who have been playing mmorpgs for 20 + years and have families and jobs isn't the way to revitalize and grow the industry. It may be a good way to appeal to the smaller mmorpg audience but that's it, the game could be large in the mmorpg community but aside from that it couldn't. That's clearly evident with the "Good" tab targeting games that bring in hardly any new players.
just..don't bother with him. Obviously he has issues.
Not attention span so much as ease of entry and convenience. It’s much simpler to fit a 15-20minute match in every now and then than devoting hours to a single player game, even, and maybe especially, in the case of adults with limited playtime.
You are right. MMORPGs are for men and women made from iron, and BRs are more for drooling kids.
Is it too much to ask for games that require a couple hours at a time?
Games that have deep meaningful systems and stories that shouldn't be accomplished in 15-20 minutes?
Maybe, by making MMORPGs great again IS, and the 'mature crowd', don't want super simple ease of access and quick stories.
Maybe there are games for that. Maybe people can play multiple games at the same time to fulfill multiple gaming needs?
We were commenting about why BRs are so popular, zero to do with the MMO genre or Ashes
"In my days, we had to crawl into the dungeons! We had to pass through multiple zones, sometimes way over our level by foot! We did not have those 'mounts' that you all are riding around on at lvl 20, one mount cost as much as three months of farming."
A lot of this thread has used the comparison of 'older audiences' and 'younger audiences' to justify why Tab-Target games have not 'exploded' like BR's.
My goal was to indicate that, although BR's are popular due to a very specific statement,
I would like that not to be the case with Ashes, an MMO.
Also, if we are not comparing the two genres, can we stop comparing the popularity of BR's versus MMO's to justify Action Combat being better than Tab-Target?
Action combat is better (in my opinion) because it lets skill make up for a gap in stats. In tab, you will almost always know after one rotation of spells if you win a fight or not, and there’s nothing you can do to win that fight besides leave, grind more gear, then come back when your stats are higher. In action, you can improve your skill or tactical approach without having to abandon the task at hand, and increase your chances of success when the there’s a stat discrepancy.
I prefer the system that does not relegate everyone to stat grinding just to take on harder content. Simply learning and having awareness should be able to make up for a couple levels’ worth of stats.
Different type of games need different type of skill to overcome situation when you are in worse position.
In action games it is the eye-hand coordination skill.
In chess it is the skill how many relevant forward steps you can calculate.
In a TBS games you can chose the position where you want to fight. You can bring units what counter better the enemy's units.
In an MMORPG, you have tons of skill and you can have utility potions/scrolls/items/etc. The standardized PvP games are team-games so you have mates. So you need to combine your skill, you need to communicate with your teammates. Even without aiming, you can use the LOS and the environment element to overcome your weakness.
I played in arena in WoW, we had similar gear, but in some fight I had better skills, but in some fight I did not have any chance to win, because the enemy was much better.
I played Starcraft. It was accused that it is a clicking championship, no strategic thinking is needed. But I was very bad at clicking my APM was about 60-70 (pros are about 150-200), and I was in the 2nd best league, because I played strategically.
I know that you do not want to remove anything what an MMORPG already has, but my experience is that in an action based MMORPG, you have much less character-skill to use once. As you have to aim, your mouse is not free to click on a rarely used skill what would be great in your current situation. You need to grow some more fingers or buy special equipment be able to map and use the same amount of skills. That is why I fear from the aiming in the MMOs. I like to have tons of skills even if I use them once a week.
But I am open for action based combat, I just fear from it.
IS has already established that we will not be getting 50+ skills and the clutter they bring. They’ve tossed numbers around closer to ten active abilities. Your ability choices have consequences, but you can also adapt on the fly with good reflexes and creative use of those abilities. We don’t need such niche abilities that you use them only a handful of times your whole time playing.
Having to click on abilities has never felt good. Neither has having to click on enemies else every button you hit does nothing at all because godforbid it target the enemy you’re aiming at if you didn’t triple confirm that yes you would like to hit the boss thanks for asking. It just feels completely unintuitive how unresponsive that sort of system is.
I could only find a citation in wiki for fewer than 30.
I think its quite easy to manage 30ish abilities in tab but for action combat I think fewer will be fluid.
You have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, §, q, e, r, t f, g, caps, mmb, (z, x) keybinds unmodded w/ basic equipment + F1-F4 depending on keyboard.
You should never click on abilities no matter how many there were.
You're bleeding for salvation, but you can't see that you are the damnation itself." -Norther