In the mmo will you drop mats if you die?

Iv'e heard this quite some time ago, it seems that it was paired with the corruption system, which i like in many ways, but....

If it's true that you drop mats if you die in pvp, or even that your weapons and armor will be possibly destroyed, i have to be honest, but i think that is way too harsh, and will probably turn off a lot of players, permanent damage to your progression is not a good idea in my opinion, what;s the point of playing if when i die i have a chance to lose what i just gained, and possibly break equipment forever?

This will encourage a very low profile kind of gameplay.

I hope that they will reconsider this, this is the one thing that worries me the most about ashes of creation, especially if you can attack players pretty much just whenever you want.

It's fine with battle royal, because you gain equipment really fast, but also lose it really fast, and you can just rejoin again, but i don't think it's a good idea for an mmo.

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Roko

it's combined with the corruption system because you drop stuff depending on your flagged status.

As a non combatant you drop a set amount of raw materials upon death. Not completed or equipped items.
As a combatant you drop half the amount of raw materials.
As a corrupted player you drop 3 -4x the amount with the added danger of dropping completed gear and even equipped items if the corruption is high enough.
The destruction of items upon death was mentioned during a livestream when asked about souldbound / legendary gear being dropped by a corrupted player and thus becoming lootable for other players. But it was never confirmed.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_flagging

Numilor

Yea, i don;t really like that aspect of the corruption system.

I think the fact that you lose stats and you are less effective if you are corrupted is already the deterrent, and you will lose materials regardless, even if you are not corrupted, which i do not like as i said before.

It's not a good idea in my opinion, and as i said before it will encourage a low profile stile of playing, and possibly deter a lot of people because of this aspect, Sure you could get them back, but the fact is that you will lose more than what you gain, especially because if you kill people you will become more and more corrupted, and more corruption means more drops, this means that you will statistically lose more than what you gain, and i don't know about you, but regrinding stuff that iv'e already done because someone managed to kill me does not constitute as fun in my book.

Atama

Just note that corruption only comes from ganking people who aren’t flagged for PvP and don’t fight back. If you’re playing PvE or consensual PvP then you won’t get any at all.

Or to put it bluntly, if you don’t play like a jerk you have nothing to worry about. If you do play like a jerk, suffer.

Numilor

Ah ok, so you only get corruption when you gank green players.

Still, you do lose a set amount of resources, which i do not like, hopefully, it's minimal.

Wololo

i dont see the problem. its a system designed against randomly pking everybody you see. been playing my main game for over 10 years where such 'redname' system as we called it; was working fine. as pvper there it worked against me but feld fair enough and rewarding. its also needed for the bounty hunter system. the only downside imo is that you cant 1v1 a friend for fun because of gear and skill proficiency going down as combatants. but a duel mechanic has been confirmed back in 2017 so that should fix it.

Ferryman

The PvP situation is also done so, that people are encouraged to fight back, because that way they will drop less resources from inventory if they die, and if they fight back, the attacker does not get any (or much) corruption penalty. So the system exists to prevent ganking and mindless pking, and directs the gankers choose their targets more wisely. I understand the developers idea to keep the focus on meaningfull PvP conflicts and not feed those PvE oriented players to PvP wolves in the open world.

I personally love open world PvP action. However, I have tried to set myself on developers and especially Steven's point of view, and see their vision of Ashes and who will be the target audience. Corruption system makes it look harsh for gankers, but without it the open world PvP would be more free, which is something what a lot of people would also hate and they will leave. Of course there is always a chance to bounty hunt criminals, fight with other flagged/corrupted players, ambush gatherers with fat and juicy donkeys or run with few friends/guildies and care less of the corruption penalties. I see the open world PvP as an activity you do for a while and then you move to do some other stuff you like.

I know people sees this whole matter different ways, but this is how I see it. I am fine to play within the planned rules even it will a little bit restrict my prefered playstyle. I am personally fine if I can do less open world PvP if it is easy to find that meaningful PvP action on daily basis.

Undead Canuck

I, too, feel that someone who is not flagged for combat shouldn't have worse consequences than someone who is fighting. A better idea would be that the non-combatant loses the least.

For example, you have player E who is just harvesting to get the last set of materials they need to craft something.
Player K cruises by, notices that they don't like the haircut of player E and decides to kill them. So they attack.

If player E fights back, he becomes a combatant, loses some mats, and player K is not penalized.
If player E doesn't fight back, he stays non-combatant and so player K is corrupted. But player E loses more materials than if they fought back. How is that fair to player E since that player was being peaceful?

All player K needs to do is wait or do a quick quest to get rid of the corruption.

I agree with the OP in that players will become more low key on their harvesting to avoid losing something that they worked for just because an idiot decided to attack on a whim (or as some people have commented on, just because they like ganking).

Caeryl

As long as harvesting has far more reward than ganking, and some materials won’t drop at all, namely the rare and extremely hard to obtain items from harvesting raid bosses, then losing some seems ok.

Something like a 10% drop or even as low as 5% for a combatant, maybe a 20% drop rate max for a non-combatant. I don’t think ganking should be a comparable harvesting method to actual harvesting. I also believe those that focusing hard on harvesting should grant access to passives that reduce death penalties in relation to harvestable materials.

Noaani

UndeadCanadianGamer wrote: »

I, too, feel that someone who is not flagged for combat shouldn't have worse consequences than someone who is fighting. A better idea would be that the non-combatant loses the least.

For example, you have player E who is just harvesting to get the last set of materials they need to craft something.
Player K cruises by, notices that they don't like the haircut of player E and decides to kill them. So they attack.

If player E fights back, he becomes a combatant, loses some mats, and player K is not penalized.
If player E doesn't fight back, he stays non-combatant and so player K is corrupted. But player E loses more materials than if they fought back. How is that fair to player E since that player was being peaceful?

All player K needs to do is wait or do a quick quest to get rid of the corruption.

I agree with the OP in that players will become more low key on their harvesting to avoid losing something that they worked for just because an idiot decided to attack on a whim (or as some people have commented on, just because they like ganking).

If they made it so non-combatants lose fewer materials than combatants, there would never be any reason to fight back against an attacker. If you fight back, you lose more materials, and the attacker doesn't get corruption.

Under the current proposed system from Intrepid, if you re attacked while you have materials on you, you have a choice of protecting your materials via fighting back, or potentially protecting yourself from future attacks via not fighting back and causing your attacker to gain corruption.

two things you need to remember here are that
1, Intrepid want PvP. You may not, I may not, but they do, and
2, corruption is not easily shaken off.

When you take those two things in to consideration, the status quo is acceptable.

Azathoth

Everytime someone makes a thread about how harsh the corruption system is and how it will deter players I feel a little bit better.

It means that those players who would be down with spending $15-20/month just to kill non-flagged opponents will think twice about randomly killing everyone that doesn't fight back.

Which is the point of corruption.
Which means it's already working.

Will it stop everyone? No, it's not supposed to.

Will it make choosing to kill a PvE player over resources more meaningful? Yes, it's supposed to do that.

*I know that wasn't the OP, but it is about.

Atama

I didn’t like the idea of losing more stuff if you die in PvP as a green player either. But then I thought about it some more and I came to appreciate what they’re doing.

If you are green and another player attacks you, you have two choices:

1) Protect yourself and fight back. If you die at least you lose less than you would have dying passively. If you scare them off then you lose nothing. If you kill them, you even profit.

2) Let them kill you. Give them corruption. Yes you lose even more this way but think of the corruption as a revenge. Heck, maybe team up with friends later to get payback on the red player.

It adds some depth to the system and adds a lot of philosophical implications.

Blueh

I love the gear dropping if i was to decide you would drop everything on you when you die ur gear and inventory. Full loot pvp is super fun the rush of killing someone or the rush of getting away makes it so worth. You can also make 30% gear trash and by ding that keep the need for new crafted gear in high demand. Ths also makes crafting and gathering fun since there is a risk to it.

It may sound harsh to drop gear but if the system is designed for it you can replace it quick and easy so should be fine.

Also killing some1 and the only gain is some points or even loss of "honor" a negative reward sucks if i murder some1 i want his shit i want to be able to live on ganking and pvping merchants and gatherers or hunting down a guild untill they are so poor they cant replace their gear.

Caeryl

Blueh wrote: »

I love the gear dropping if i was to decide you would drop everything on you when you die ur gear and inventory. Full loot pvp is super fun the rush of killing someone or the rush of getting away makes it so worth. You can also make 30% gear trash and by ding that keep the need for new crafted gear in high demand. Ths also makes crafting and gathering fun since there is a risk to it.

It may sound harsh to drop gear but if the system is designed for it you can replace it quick and easy so should be fine.

Also killing some1 and the only gain is some points or even loss of "honor" a negative reward sucks if i murder some1 i want his shit i want to be able to live on ganking and pvping merchants and gatherers or hunting down a guild untill they are so poor they cant replace their gear.

Ashes will not be the game for you, and I honestly am very glad there will be tangible consequences for greifing because it means less of players like this.

I’m not really one to judge people for their game preferences, but this isn’t shoot ‘em up PvP arena. It’s an MMORPG with consequences to your actions. Indiscriminate murder of other player characters “for funsies” should be penalized.

Noaani

Blueh wrote: »

It may sound harsh to drop gear but if the system is designed for it you can replace it quick and easy so should be fine.

What this would mean if it were implemented the way you want is that there would be no scope at all for difficult to acquire gear.

Your suggestion would completely kill the ability for a game like Ashes to have any kind of raiding scene.

Damokles

Blueh wrote: »

I love the gear dropping if i was to decide you would drop everything on you when you die ur gear and inventory. Full loot pvp is super fun the rush of killing someone or the rush of getting away makes it so worth. You can also make 30% gear trash and by ding that keep the need for new crafted gear in high demand. Ths also makes crafting and gathering fun since there is a risk to it.

It may sound harsh to drop gear but if the system is designed for it you can replace it quick and easy so should be fine.

Also killing some1 and the only gain is some points or even loss of "honor" a negative reward sucks if i murder some1 i want his shit i want to be able to live on ganking and pvping merchants and gatherers or hunting down a guild untill they are so poor they cant replace their gear.

Shure, lets loose everything thst you worked a full week for, just because a high level player decided to kill you....

Do you know what the peoblem with such a system is? To produce items, you need resources. If you want resources, you have to go out and get them. If you go out to get them you most likely die because some high leveled player wants those resources. If you die, then you need new gear. For new gear you need someone to craft that.

Dygz

We drop mats when we die - PvE or PvP.
The percentage of mats depends on whether we are flagged as combatant or non-combatant or corrupted.

Atama

Blueh wrote: »

I love the gear dropping if i was to decide you would drop everything on you when you die ur gear and inventory. Full loot pvp is super fun the rush of killing someone or the rush of getting away makes it so worth. You can also make 30% gear trash and by ding that keep the need for new crafted gear in high demand. Ths also makes crafting and gathering fun since there is a risk to it.

It may sound harsh to drop gear but if the system is designed for it you can replace it quick and easy so should be fine.

Also killing some1 and the only gain is some points or even loss of "honor" a negative reward sucks if i murder some1 i want his shit i want to be able to live on ganking and pvping merchants and gatherers or hunting down a guild untill they are so poor they cant replace their gear.

I’m so glad you won’t be playing Ashes. You are clearly a full-blown griefer.

Hexcat

So you're thinking twice about gankin/killing non combatant players because of the consequences of the corruption,
In other words, the corruption system is already working hehehe

Ferryman

Blueh wrote: »

Full loot pvp is super fun the rush of killing someone or the rush of getting away makes it so worth. Ths also makes crafting and gathering fun since there is a risk to it.

It is quite small portion of Ashes playerbase who would actually enjoy the full loot PvP system and this is something what IS developers does not want from their game (said quite many times). Full loot system works nicely in some games, where that is meant to be a core mechanic and base for the economy. In game like Albion full loot works nicely and can be fun, but there the target audience is most parts different.

Numilor

Still, i do not like the idea of dropping mats because of it, i think your resources should stay yours, you should definitely not lose gear, and gear should not be permanently destroyed, even a low % drop in mats is not a good idea for me, so i hope it will be at max 5%, if nothing at all, if it's 20 % or something like that, it will possibly be a make or break for me.

Because as much as i love other things in ashes of creation, i will not be bothered to regrind 20 % of my mats on drop.

This is not a br game, you will be pissed if you lose your stuff in a mmo, sometimes you will get it back, but statistically you will lose more than what you gain, especially because people will not attack you when they are at a disadvantage or when you are at parity, no, they will attack you when you are attacking mobs, or when you are looting stuff, the corruption system alone is enough to deter griefing, just make it so you do not lose all your corruption on death, so you will die just as many times as you have been griefing.

These are my thoughts on this, and i didn't even go into other problems that this could cause, and one of them is pretty massive.

The goal of an mmo should be to retain as many players as you can, those players overtime will become better, but with a system like this where you lose mats, many will just stop playing, this is a fact, i am not in favor of making the game casual, but, we also have to take into consideration that you need new players if you want the game to grow, and while i am not in favor of microtransactions, and short term money making tactics where the fun in the game is just completely disregarded and compulsory spending is favored, but i do realize that a system like this will deter new players, because admittedly we all need to learn, and losing mats on death will be a big deterrent, what i am in favor is making new players, seasoned players overtime because they enjoyed the game.

By the way some people are jumping to conclusions, i never even mentioned the corruption system as being bad, only the dropping mats part, please, if you do not understand the argument properly do not comment about it.

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