The Fooshyy Retention Rant

FooshyyFooshyy Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People
edited November 5 in General Discussion
We need a carrot on a stick, and currently there are none
Also to note, it's really just smart game mechanics to keep people playing. Really all of this is. A second currency to get after every match would work the same. Doesn't have to be embers

I assume it is Intrepid studios goal to make a standalone game out of every one of these game modes to Apocalypse. I would love to see the BR come back to life, but most importantly I want to see Siege, and horde mode come out behind the curtains kicking.

While the BR Suffered from relaunching, reiterating, networking, false dreams and hopes. I am hopeful a large majority of these issues stay in the past and we can have the best possible product we can get for as little of an effort as possible. Without investing a huge amount of time into it.

My opinion in short; this is true, no matter how you look at it. Gamers are leeches, and they want everything for free. Gone are the days of fun, but rather work and progression. We play to feel special, to be someone. Not a nobody. Novelty wears off so they need progression, so they feel special, and they're somebody. #3 kill leader on leaderboard big hype... So what do you do? How do we get as many people coming back as possible?

Answer:

Give people free shit, make them feel special, and Allow them to continue progressing with a clear identification that this person is special.

Suggestions:

Post level 50 Compendium, continue allowing people to aquire xp, to continue leveling. Give 100 embers every 3 levels. However you want to scale it. The point is, people can continue playing, and grinding for a purpose. And progress to get Cosmetics, to get PROGRESSION.

Same thing with leaderboards, they're cool. They'll help, but add 100-1000 ember weekly rewards for seperate categories for 10th to 1st place accordingly, OR TITLES and you have uniqueness/specialness.

While adding an identification to those past 50, every 50 levels like a prestige system. Add a bunch of new icons for level bracket, and when you press tab for scoreboard in siege, you'll see the level icon. THEY'LL FEEL LIKE GODS.

Trust me when I say this, we had 200 Imp people playing the BR, and when they got level 50, they quit week 2. It's fact. Games are only fun for a time, the novelty runs out and we're left with nothing. But give the players the ability to show off, grind for a goal, and a consistent way to farm Everything for free, you'll have players every day for a long time. Consider it. Think about it. Ask your experts. Am I wrong?

LEADERBOARDS, AND GUILDS ARE NOT ENOUGH TO KEEP SIEGE ALIVE AS A PRODUCT.
I threw up a huge list earlier but that seemed to be ignored, I have no confirmation whether or not any of that was taken into consideration or even looked at. Here's that list again. Dancing around the same premises.

-Ideas for Retention and Growth in Apoc: BR/Siege modes--

1. Add into chests random small amounts of embers 1-5. Incorporate diminishing returns. Add title: Treasure Hunter/ember Hunter title reward achievement

2. Have achievements (i.e. kill 250 people with this weapon type) and have titles attached to them for the mmorpg.
2.5. kill achievements also layer with a color varient of base model, but max achievement is a god tier Cosmetic. Corruption bow/Sword? Completely new model. One of a kind.

4. Finishing quests reward small amounts of embers (i.e finish in top 10 25 times rewards 10 embers)

4. Opening chests randomly (very rarely) give special weapon or armor skin.

5. Play a single class (priest, mage, warrior ect) in Siege for 500 matches gives achievement, title for mmorpg and a skin for that class ( tier it so 100 for achievement, 250 for title, 500 for class specific skin.

6. Have leaderboard have weekly reward for top three places... larger amount of embers... 100-1000

7. Have titles for amount of time survived total...(i.e. 5 hour- Survivor, 20 hours- gladiator ect.)

8. Have more hidden items (i.e. sandal....)

9. Reward for playing class role in Siege. (i.e. healing so many HP 10,000 gives achievement, 100,000 gives mmorpg title)

-Idea is to give GOALS for players to reach and KEEP playing, this in addition to current leveling system will help to do that!

Also this is in thought that they're trying to make a standalone game. Instead of creating unique assets, use the currency. Put up all the other revariations you have. While someone has 500 embers, they might need 1000 more. So Instead of farming another day, which they could. They might just splurge the $10.
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Comments

  • MagistoMagisto Member, Braver of Worlds
    I support this!
  • FooshyyFooshyy Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People
    edited November 4
    Magisto wrote: »
    I support this!

    I know not everyone will support this, as it's just a splurge and an opinion from a nobody, but we'll get another dead game mode that no one cares about if we can't farm something. The compendium by itself is timely, but after that? Nothing. Not going to farm something that's going to give me nothing after the novelty wears off.
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  • Those are some good idea tbh! I especially liked: "Post level 50 Compendium, continue allowing people to aquire xp, to continue leveling. Give 100 embers every 3 levels. However you want to scale it. The point is, people can continue playing, and grinding for a purpose. And progress to get Cosmetics, to get PROGRESSION."
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  • How do we get as many people coming back as possible?

    I tell you how. Lets throw that Apoc shit for trashcan and lets get the focus back on the MMO. Fixed!
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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited November 4
    If the devs threw APOC in the trashcan, we would probably have to wait until June or July to get our hands on the game.


    The intention is for APOC to be a "standalone" game with several game modes - not for each game mode to be a standalone game.
    And "standalone" basically means that APOC is in a different time setting than the MMORPG and has separate monetization from the MMORPG.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men
    I'm fine with the way Apoc is now but I do wonder how long it will last as a standalone game
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  • Dygz wrote: »
    If the devs threw APOC in the trashcan, we would probably have to wait until June or July to get our hands on the game. The intention is for APOC to be a "standalone" game with several game modes - not for each game mode to be a standalone game. And "standalone" basically means that APOC is in a different time setting than the MMORPG and has separate monetization from the MMORPG.

    Yeah right. Without Apoc we would have Alpha 1 already.
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • cyanideinsanitycyanideinsanity Member, Settler
    ferryman wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    If the devs threw APOC in the trashcan, we would probably have to wait until June or July to get our hands on the game. The intention is for APOC to be a "standalone" game with several game modes - not for each game mode to be a standalone game. And "standalone" basically means that APOC is in a different time setting than the MMORPG and has separate monetization from the MMORPG.

    Yeah right. Without Apoc we would have Alpha 1 already.

    We probably wouldn't have had a1 until months after apoc's initial release as its has far more features than apoc in its entirety, including the action/tab combat, and right now it would probably be down to redo the network backend like we have already experienced.
  • FooshyyFooshyy Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People
    Damokles wrote: »
    Those are some good idea tbh! I especially liked: "Post level 50 Compendium, continue allowing people to aquire xp, to continue leveling. Give 100 embers every 3 levels. However you want to scale it. The point is, people can continue playing, and grinding for a purpose. And progress to get Cosmetics, to get PROGRESSION."

    Thank you. Fuppo created the list and it resonates with me.

    I know we're an MMO community, and having a battle Royale is a massive turn off to the majority of people. I believe it is a good testing ground which ever we look at it. We could be in A0 Or pre A1, but the same thing would be happening. We'd be bored because crafting wouldn't be available, nodes were minimalistic and tldr there was nothing to do. We'll level to 10? Then what? Maybe ship a caravan acrossed the map, turn on PvP flag and gank someone?. Yes but really that's all pointless too. Stuff could wipe. Would we even get rewards for playing the pre A1 ? To help test? Idk atleast with Apocalypse, we can play something that's quick, we can play it a whole bunch of ways, and it's good to push aspects in certain areas, like siege testing, it's all specific to what they want to do at that certain time.

    Imagine relaunching your pre A1, just to try to get data for player density. They ask us to play a BR, we already grinded 50 in, we already shifted through the content, so until something new comes out. Or a reason to play. PFFFT forget it

    Now genuinely if they did call upon us, I'm sure we would help them with player density for 1 hour. But then poof.

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  • UndeadCanadianGamerUndeadCanadianGamer Member, Braver of Worlds
    I especially like the idea of skins or titles for top players. To make it even more interesting, they could have a leaderboard, but at the end of the month, the person who was consistently the highest gets the title.

    That way, just winning a few times, gets you some recognition, but winning constantly gets you a title.
  • DavlosDavlos Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    ferryman wrote: »

    Yeah right. Without Apoc we would have Alpha 1 already.

    That's what a gamedev-illiterate rando would say. Laughing at this the same way I do at Jenny McCarthy's opinion on measles.
  • FooshyyFooshyy Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People
    ferryman wrote: »
    Yeah right. Without Apoc we would have Alpha 1 already.

    I missed this. I don't think so at all. I'm glad we had these short coming experiences in an environment that's not the MMO. you wouldn't want to touch the MMO if these issues persisted. Let's be honest.
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  • Alpha SoulAlpha Soul Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People
    These are some solid ideas... I support it!
  • recklessreckless Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    Fooshy is smart ! Listen to him ..
  • FooshyyFooshyy Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People
    ❤️ much love
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  • Teyloune DragonvaleTeyloune Dragonvale Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    I don't disagree with this.
    Decent ideas. <3
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  • VarkunVarkun Member, Braver of Worlds
    It is honestly somewhat of a mystery to me as to why there was this great rush put on by Intrepid to get people to rush to level 50 by the end of the month. What did they think was going to happen people would keep playing with no incentive. People need goals no matter how small or trivial but something to aim for to keep them logging in.

    But honestly what was this rush to 50 for? Gather data if so I hope IS got the data they wanted because it killed APOC once people hit 50.

    Nice ideas Foosh.
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    Close your eyes spread your arms and always trust your cape.
  • FooshyyFooshyy Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People
    Varkun wrote: »
    It is honestly somewhat of a mystery to me as to why there was this great rush put on by Intrepid to get people to rush to level 50 by the end of the month. What did they think was going to happen people would keep playing with no incentive. People need goals no matter how small or trivial but something to aim for to keep them logging in.

    But honestly what was this rush to 50 for? Gather data if so I hope IS got the data they wanted because it killed APOC once people hit 50.

    Nice ideas Foosh.

    Thx. I can only hope that data was gained
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  • sunfrogsunfrog Member, Pioneer
    6. Have leaderboard have weekly reward for top three places... larger amount of embers... 100-1000

    I see this as a problem. It will always be the same 20 people at the top. Top 3 will hardly ever change.
    Also, it will take time to create new rewards and stuff so people will cry that it's making the MMO take longer and complain about it. Whatever they do needs to be simple and easy and fast or people will cry.

    Also, how do you know they need more data? Maybe they already got the info they wanted so it doesn't matter if we keep playing. Maybe they're busy coding stuff so we can wait until the next test. Apoc is just a test not the final product. They probably got a ton of info from it.

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  • FooshyyFooshyy Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People
    sunfrog wrote: »
    6. Have leaderboard have weekly reward for top three places... larger amount of embers... 100-1000

    I see this as a problem. It will always be the same 20 people at the top. Top 3 will hardly ever change.
    Also, it will take time to create new rewards and stuff so people will cry that it's making the MMO take longer and complain about it. Whatever they do needs to be simple and easy and fast or people will cry.

    Also, how do you know they need more data? Maybe they already got the info they wanted so it doesn't matter if we keep playing. Maybe they're busy coding stuff so we can wait until the next test. Apoc is just a test not the final product. They probably got a ton of info from it.

    It's an idea, leaderboards are coming, so adding a reward to it is more for the competitive no lifers. Why not? Alot of games have a weekly to monthly reward on all kinds of different brackets. Some are not so much on rank, but just active participation in the game. Of course tweak this whichever way they want. Just having your name on a board is great. So assuming they want to make this a standalone game, something needs to be done, or added to influence all ways of playing their game.

    Maybe at the end of the day, they're focusing more on testing, rather than prolonging these projects. Maybe they're scrapping the entire thing as a standalone and are just getting the necessities for systems to work properly. Seeing how it performs in a live field and moving on.

    Until the directors letter or further notice, it's still a game in progress, and if the goal is to be successful, I think player Retention is and should be a strong focus. A fun game with mechanics is fun, for awhile. Then as you stop discovering new ways to win, what're fighting for? UwU


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  • FooshyyFooshyy Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People
    In Apex, you can farm an in-game currency to buy legends, and Cosmetics.
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  • Me as a free player, it was nearly impossible to get lvl 50 by the end of the month. As a free player, you do not have anymore reward after lvl 25. The smaller map was good idea, but they screwed up something. I have huge performance issues. Some part of the map, I am OK, but some part I have quite low FPS even with minimum setting. Some part of the map, I am walking within textures in that deep that my character is not visible. Once I had a fight under textures. None of us saw anything. This was not corrected when the map received the update.
    The playerbase dopped down that only one type of game was available so more and more daily quest was not solvable.
    Teamchat not exist so you can't communicate with a random partner so you have much less chance to win against a premade team.

    These together caused that I quit playing when I reached lvl 25. To come back they need to do more than give a few amber after some levels.

    But you can count on me if siege or horde mode opens.
  • FooshyyFooshyy Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People
    Ghoosty wrote: »

    These together caused that I quit playing when I reached lvl 25. To come back they need to do more than give a few amber after some levels.

    But you can count on me if siege or horde mode opens.

    Right? Something atleast. If you're pumping games out 24-7, let it be known. If you're getting huge kill streaks. If you're surviving for a long time. If your KDR is really good. If you're opening a butt ton of chests. Whatever your gameplay. Something else to earn while playing. Even free to play players should have something. Even some embers every few levels or games. Then that rate is doubled for compendium users. The daily quests. But yeah I feel yah, if you didn't have the compendium for those extra quests daily and weekly. It hurt. But this incentives you or anyone to pay for Compendium for convenience and more Cosmetics.

    I get it, they a company so they gotta make money.But incentivize everyone respectively and we good :)
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  • ferryman wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    If the devs threw APOC in the trashcan, we would probably have to wait until June or July to get our hands on the game. The intention is for APOC to be a "standalone" game with several game modes - not for each game mode to be a standalone game. And "standalone" basically means that APOC is in a different time setting than the MMORPG and has separate monetization from the MMORPG.

    Yeah right. Without Apoc we would have Alpha 1 already.

    We probably wouldn't have had a1 until months after apoc's initial release as its has far more features than apoc in its entirety, including the action/tab combat, and right now it would probably be down to redo the network backend like we have already experienced.

    We have to remember that Apoc's development has started perhaps at least 1,5 years ago and has delayed the MMO for sure. At the beginning the MMO development progressed really fast and the launch was planned for 2019 if I remember right. Okay, this schedule sounded way too optimistic, even Steven and Jeffrey were quite confident about it. IS has shown that scheduling is not their strongest point, but I am sure they would not made so big mistakes with calculations that there would not even be A1 on the air at the end of 2019.
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  • Davlos wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »

    Yeah right. Without Apoc we would have Alpha 1 already.

    That's what a gamedev-illiterate rando would say. Laughing at this the same way I do at Jenny McCarthy's opinion on measles.

    You just do not understand how much time this side project called Apoc has took from the MMO. I love how blind people are. ;)
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • Fooshyy wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    Yeah right. Without Apoc we would have Alpha 1 already.

    I'm glad we had these short coming experiences in an environment that's not the MMO. you wouldn't want to touch the MMO if these issues persisted. Let's be honest.

    Some people are glad, some are not and some just do not care. This topic divides opinions quite a lot.

    We do not actually know what kind of issues there would be if the Apoc would not been implemented at first place. Problems there would be for sure, but that is why the test phases exists, and especially if we think of the A1 there things can be also unfinished.

    I do not want to see any more things implemented for Apoc, but unfortunately my wish is going to be vain. I predict, that after all current/upcoming Apoc tests, IS will release Apoc as own game and after that we will get back to MMO track.
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • cyanideinsanitycyanideinsanity Member, Settler
    ferryman wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    If the devs threw APOC in the trashcan, we would probably have to wait until June or July to get our hands on the game. The intention is for APOC to be a "standalone" game with several game modes - not for each game mode to be a standalone game. And "standalone" basically means that APOC is in a different time setting than the MMORPG and has separate monetization from the MMORPG.

    Yeah right. Without Apoc we would have Alpha 1 already.

    We probably wouldn't have had a1 until months after apoc's initial release as its has far more features than apoc in its entirety, including the action/tab combat, and right now it would probably be down to redo the network backend like we have already experienced.

    We have to remember that Apoc's development has started perhaps at least 1,5 years ago and has delayed the MMO for sure. At the beginning the MMO development progressed really fast and the launch was planned for 2019 if I remember right. Okay, this schedule sounded way too optimistic, even Steven and Jeffrey were quite confident about it. IS has shown that scheduling is not their strongest point, but I am sure they would not made so big mistakes with calculations that there would not even be A1 on the air at the end of 2019.

    Yeah, and about half of that time its been down because the networking needed to be redone... If they couldn't get a br running efficiently, what makes you think the mmo would've fared better?
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder
    I'm a big believer that something should be fun in its own right, and that if you need to add rewards to get players do to a piece of content, then that content isn't fun and should be removed/changed.
  • FooshyyFooshyy Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People
    I'm a big believer that something should be fun in its own right, and that if you need to add rewards to get players do to a piece of content, then that content isn't fun and should be removed/changed.

    I mean absolutely! That's a good thing to believe in. But doesn't that content get boring after awhile? APOC was fun when it was new, and we were still experiencing stuff, But we all play our games for our different reasonings afterall.

    Some are more real life focused, Thurs not needing much except for fun. Some have no lives and are comfortable playing games without a goal. Meanwhile others are in between, and don't like their time being wasted.

    I wish I could go back to just enjoying a game like the olden days
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  • TsukasaTsukasa Member
    edited November 6
    Instead of adding rewards, how about making it appealing to its target audience?

    We, MMO players, wanted an MMO. They should simply add the very basic systems that are in an MMO alongside the game modes Apoc has.

    Doing that, it won't only make testing entertaining, but also turn Apoc into a successful F2P standalone that works as "limited version" for non-subscribers.

    I already made a topic about it, gave few low-cost suggestions, and not going to repeat myself.

    No need to read or comment about that post. You could come up with your own suggestions that would serve the same purpose.
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