Alchemy with real experiment feeling

Ghoosty

@noaani
WoW: There are many times when a quest mob drops rare material. I never felt that I have problem with the questing or with the material farming. Maybe I do not play in the most busy hours or the problem is not as bad as you think. I know the craft system is WoW is very simple so maybe with a game where the crafting system receive bigger focus it would be different, I can't tell you. I just can tell you what I feel when I play with it. My feeling is that using a mob for questing and for resource as well is not a big issue, not even bad design.

"Now you are expanding the number of materials needed, compounding the issues with the system."

Yes and no. We can reuse materials from other recipes. We can use a lazy solution: We can add buyable components (catalyst, thickeners, oxidizer etc)

Examples:

-we have 5 material and need 2 for the recipe and duplication available. It has 25 combination.
-1 from 5 lvl1 animal material and 1 from 5 lvl1 plant material. 25 combination.
-If we restrict for different material the 2 from 5 type, it is only 10 combination, but if we add 1 catalyst to the recipe what is buyable and we have 3 type so the final combination is 30 what is very near to the original.
-we need 1 from 5 material and need 1 from 5 buyable components. 25 combination.

Ghoosty

@Dygz What I am talking about they are not critters what you just kill with one shot. They are same level as the territory. Some of them just decoration, but if you want to kill them the TTK is same as other mobs.
I am not complaining. Actually, I raise them as good example where in a smaller palce you can find multiple type of mobs.

Dygz

Multiple types of mobs that don't drop resources.

Gimlog

I wonder why no one took what we know of crafter recipes for Aoc and speculate from it, to point out that Aoc won't have Google issue because character have to know recipes to make things.
@Ghoosty already agreed with it , but still player will be able to google where to found those recipes.
They are probably quest related, from mobs drop , some secret chest , grade in organisations , achievement and deconstructed stuff to learn how to craft it ect...
All of this make it challenging and with enough variety to not be boring, even gatherer will have to search for the resource because once there are gathered they randomly respawn it the world ( with some rules to keep it logical I guess)

We know that rancher will have to possibility to make some change in skins and as crafter make some focus in stats .

I guess for alchemy once you'll got a recipe you may have the possibility too to make slightly change in the way it will work .

All of this said, @Ghoosty could this be enjoyable for you ?

Ps: if some one know if a master crafter can still do some gathering and processing work ?

Ghoosty

@Gimlog I would find it enjoyable especially if they are able to make some background story. So I can read hints about where can I find a recipe. If somebody find it before me, I would receive a message that my hints are outdated. So I have to restart the research. Maybe there can be find some weakpoint, but for first it sounds OK.

Dygz

Gimlog wrote: »

I wonder why no one took what we know of crafter recipes for Aoc and speculate from it, to point out that Aoc won't have Google issue because character have to know recipes to make things.

We will have to ask if it's possible to make reagent substitutions in the recipes.
AKA experimentation.
Especially for Alchemy.
The context of the quote I read on the wiki was recipe v RNG - which doesn't necessarily address the Google issue.

Noaani

Ghoosty wrote: »

There are many times when a quest mob drops rare material. I never felt that I have problem with the questing or with the material farming. Maybe I do not play in the most busy hours or the problem is not as bad as you think. I know the craft system is WoW is very simple so maybe with a game where the crafting system receive bigger focus it would be different, I can't tell you. I just can tell you what I feel when I play with it. My feeling is that using a mob for questing and for resource as well is not a big issue, not even bad design.

It is incredibly bad game design. If an area is both key for farming materials for a specific profession, and is key as a quest area for players leveling up, then there are issues. Add to that the issue in Ashes of people being able to attack and kill others almost anywhere in the world, and you would have a game that is VERY unfriendly to new players.

Ghoosty wrote: »

Yes and no. We can reuse materials from other recipes. We can use a lazy solution: We can add buyable components (catalyst, thickeners, oxidizer etc)

That helps to solve the issue of too many materials, but now we are getting back to the issue of a really boring system for acquiring ingredients.

I mean, if you have a recipe that uses 2 things and one of them is purchased from an NPC, that isn't interesting gameplay.

ashone

I have posted once in a while, That I think that alchemy should have some experiments that go "BANG"

Makinoji

all of this

consultant

Think if we just had a greater variety of potions that would be enought to keep it interesting. Seen list in dungeouns and dragons and there are like hundreds of potions. But if we had let say 15 plus a few with rare mats that would be enough in my opinnion. Think there should be Alchemist lab needed for more powerful potions but not standard potions

Noaani

More potions is good, but imo making the potions that do exist actually worthwhile is at least as important.

There is no point carrying around a stack of healing potions of those potions have a 30 second reuse and only heal 5% of your total HP.

consultant

well was thinking about specialty potions like enlarge and invisibility and water walk and some other creative potion mana and healing and stat buff potions are standard. There are potions for cosmetic appearances also. Maybe a pheonix potion

Noaani

consultant wrote: »

well was thinking about specialty potions like enlarge and invisibility and water walk and some other creative potion mana and healing and stat buff potions are standard. There are potions for cosmetic appearances also. Maybe a pheonix potion

I wasn't specificlly talking about heal potions, I just used it as an easy example. Regardless of the function of any potion added to the game, they need to be actually worthwhile in practice.

An invisibility potion is of no real use if every third mob sees through invisibility. There is no point having a cure potion that cures up to level 45 ailments if players using it will face mobs that use level 55 ailments.

consultant

Would be cool if we had portable cauldron to make potions away from alchemy lab. Playing League of legends and saw a toon pull one out bubbling and everything really cool to pull out while exploring.

consultant

There been a several posts on alchemy and well in one of them a player pointed out that if we had 20 potions that is 20 extra keybindings one way to deal with this is no restrictions as far as mana health and stat potions but lets say potions of enlargement and invisibility potions you could only carry one ro two of those type of potions if that is a concern for the game development team.

maouw

consultant wrote: »

There been a several posts on alchemy and well in one of them a player pointed out that if we had 20 potions that is 20 extra keybindings one way to deal with this is no restrictions as far as mana health and stat potions but lets say potions of enlargement and invisibility potions you could only carry one ro two of those type of potions if that is a concern for the game development team.

I don't think it makes sense to put 1-only potions on hotkeys... but maybe that's just me.
Also can't see a scenario where you'd need to be instantly enlarged, invisible, walking on water, resistant to fire, taking reduced damage, and protected from death at the same time. Maybe you're trying to stealth raid a ship on the sea with a fiery leviathan on your tail? Ooh, maybe you're luring the leviathan to their ship. ok!

Jokes aside, I think it would be cool if they had "schools" of potions and you could only have the effects of 1 potion from each school active at once.

e.g.
School of Transfiguration: cannot have both Potion of Enlargement, with Potion of Fox Ears at the same time.
School of Elementalism: cannot have both Potion of Fire Strikes, with Potion of Ice Resistance at the same time.
School of Arcana: cannot have both Potion of Spell Haste, with Potion of Cooldown Reduction at the same time.
etc.

(then you could have a passive skill in the artisan tree that allows you to use 1 extra potion from a particular school - might be game breaking though)