Dev Discussion #14 - Content Level Equalization

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Comments

  • As others have stated, it's a feature we see in themepark games. For instanced content, I'd be okay with it but other than that, not really. Please don't have it Intrepid.
  • Idhalar AlBaieshIdhalar AlBaiesh Member, Settler
    Not a fan of content equalization, even less so in a game like this one were choices are supposed to be meaningful and content is not instanced. It does not fit.

    Make content hard and complicate combat possibilities and mechanics as you level so its' a long learning process, make mastering it really challenging. Make skill a very important factor, well over level or gear so there is a bigger range of levels that can play together given enough skill in the usage of their character.

    If you want low and middle level players entertained make their efforts matter. Make lower level drops, gathereables, craftables and quests important for everyone and create a good mentor system where higher levels can give quests to the lower levels for a mutual benefit.
    Only in silence the word, Only in dark the light, Only in dying life.
  • HjerimHjerim Member, Leader of Men, Early Alpha One Tester
    I like it, but it needs to be done right.

    In Guild Wars 2 I think it was done almost perfect.
    As a max level walking through a low level zone you will have an advantage against the mobs as you have acquired high tier gear. You get to feel a bit of power-tripping from one hitting some of the weak mobs with your strong abilities, which is fun, but still challenging enough to not keep it boring.
    There needs to be a balance between you feeling like you have gotten stronger since you started the game and the content not being too easy – in case you want to complete a missed quest or content.

    In most games it feels like I am being punished for being a completionist. I absolutely hate that when I am 60-70% done with a zone, I am already overleveled and the content left is boring and will yield no XP because of the level gap. Where is the fun in completing quest or killing monsters if there is no reward or progression earned?
    All the interesting zone content or fun missions which are left for exploring are no longer fun, but tedious if the above is the case.

    A good example is Witcher 3. The first thing I do is to enable mob level scaling so this thing wont happen.
    I love all the different missions, but hacking a legendary monster to death in a single hit or two takes away all the excitement and epicness of the content.

    Cheers!
  • greypeltgreypelt Moderator, Member, Braver of Worlds
    I in general like the idea of ‘content level equalization’ but I think that it has to be designed very well or we’d be better off not having it at all.

    First, the big reason I like the idea of difficulty equalization is a game economy motive. I’d like a crafting system were high end / utility item materials are gathered from all over the world as opposed to only from a small set of high level mobs, so I don’t want early game mobs to have completely trivial difficulty at the end of the game, making gathering materials from them about one shotting them with instant aoe’s and then finding the most efficient looting path.

    Second, I think the biggest problem possible with equalization is if someone who is being scaled down is weaker than they were at the level their being scaled to (or if someone being scaled up if stronger than an actual high level character), which would really ruin the sense of progression. If the game was designed in such a way that say players were expected to become 5% stronger per level just based on their stat increase from leveling, downscaling could reduce this effect by 4% per level, with a similar effect happening with gear where better gear is always better, and your not say punished by not switching into the most powerful pieces of gear for the level your becoming, and your still rewarded with additional power for more gear, but what might be a piece that increases your dps by 5% at max level (say over some base grey gear) increases your dps by .1% less per level your being scaled down to where that particular piece provides a 4% dmg increase if your being scaled from 50 to 40 or a 1% dmg increase if your going from 50 to 10 (and there would need to be nothing at lvl 10 that provided something that increased damage by 1% in a single slot) - If you upgraded to a max level piece of gear that increased dps by 10% you could have it increase dps by .2% less per level so with a 10 level decrease it increases base dps by 8% -- Numbers are examples, I don’t actually recommend trying to use these. A system like this would work best with larger numbers involved for less rounding problems.

    Third, the problem of needing to equalize could largely be avoided if character power progression was kept relatively small and linear. Do whatever with the 1-10 experience that exists outside of the normal node system, this would be a good time for players to feel like they are progressing quickly, the experience doesn’t really need to be integrated with the overall economy, and friends could roll new characters to play together for the very start of the game. Call a level 10 character the ‘base’ in power. If a fully raid geared level 50 character was 1.5x stronger than the level 10 character, I don’t think there would be a need to scale down the level 50 players to play with the level 10 characters at all. The game would need to be tuned in such a way that a 1% increase in character power felt noticeable though. Firmly controlling the rate of progression wouldn’t make everyone happy of course, but it could help with people whose only problem on the topic is not wanting what they already have to be taken away and could be more intuitive than having to do level change math. You could probably have something like lvl 50s being twice as strong as level 10s, the numbers are once again examples for explanation.
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  • xlangatangxxlangatangx Member, Braver of Worlds
    As an option this sounds great. IMO anything that promotes community is a good thing, and that's exactly what this would do. It would allow a lvl 40 player to play with their friends who aren't as experienced. It would allow content to remain challenging if someone out-leveled dungeons that they never got to play or want to repeat. It's a solid 8.5/10 idea.

    As a requirement however, I can't say whether or not I would like this. If a dungeon ALWAYS has a max lvl of 20, and I cannot come back at a higher level to farm for materials or specific drops, then I am not sure how I would feel about that. I want to FEEL like I have progressed enough to handle these dungeons quickly.

    I guess what I am trying to say is that implementation strategy matters here. Reception and interest would largely depend on how you implemented that level cap. Do you give the players agency or are you setting hard caps to specific content?
  • I really came to hate the scaling system in FFXIV because it would disable higher level abilities in low level dungeons and completely change the way the class plays outside of max level content, and made it more difficult to establish good habits and learn to use new abilities as you get them.

    While I can see there being a place for these kinds of systems to keep low level content feeling active and relevant, I really dislike any feeling of inconsistency in my character's power or skillset from moment to moment. It's gotten more common in the genre and takes away a lot of immersion and feeling of personal progression. If someone asks me how much damage I do, I should be able to give them a straight answer instead of 'it depends on which zone I'm in'.

    That being said, a game with a combat system that rewards mechanical skill would naturally be taking some emphasis away from who has the better stats, and instead places it on who has better execution, so some level scaling wouldn't be as noticeable when superior gear doesn't automatically guarantee a free win.

    Ideally though, I'd like to see a break from the WoW standard of level gap piling on a bunch of arbitrary penalties to effectiveness, and a gentler power curve overall. Your level can be tied to unlocking more utility and such, but shouldn't make you perform like a god relative to someone 10 levels lower unless you also have the equipment to back it up.
  • RavudhaRavudha Member
    edited January 9
    If it’s a voluntary feature people can use to enjoy content with friends who level slower (like a mentor system), then it’s ok.

    Forced equalisation to match players’ power to a zone like in GW2 - a resounding no to that. It is one of the the worst ideas I have ever seen. Different mobs should feel drastically different in terms of challenge and power.

    Edit: To me power is tied to progression. Forcefully diminishing my power via equalisation feels like taking away the progress I worked hard for.
  • I can be in favor for the system if its optional. FF14 has the sync option when doing world content which i thinks works well.

    I like the concept of mentoring more then level equalization itself. Mentoring with other players could give more incentive to go back and help newer players than just syncing someones level.

  • EndEnd Member
    edited January 9
    PVE. Every n levels in raids or dungeons high level players should be DE-leveled to -1 level than what's needed for next better/harder dungeon. An exception would be if all 5 players are higher level than needed.
    Let's say we're in 20Lv 5player dungeon (a 1 Lv. 20; 3 players Lvl 20-29; and 1 Lv. 30+), in this example, Lv. 30+ player would be DE-leveled to Lv. 29 and his and his gear base stats should be lowered to what a Lv. 29 can have, additional stats like inlayed gems in gear, gear set bonuses, plused gear (like +9 wep), player stats from training etc. shouldn't be affected, I think it wouldn't let higher level players blast through low level content (except if whole team is higher level) and carry low levels this way, but at the same time they would be able to do dungs a fair amount quicker because of their additional stats and the progress feeling would still stand, players could do speed runs for records (flex for guilds) aswell.

    For arena(1v1;3v3;5v5 etc.) PvP. I think everyone should be equal in terms of base stats until max level. And at the max level the rare gear=skills>gear would matter most. Castle sieges and Open world PvP though shouldn't be affected by this IMO. For open world PvP I think high level players should be punished really bad if they are killing low level players in low level areas (Llike bounties on their head that if they're killed not only the person who killed them would receive bounty money but the persons gear aswell, therefore the red player loses his gear on which he worked hard for it) And for high lvl vs high lvl maybe just regular bounties.
    Of course IMO there should high risk high reward areas where players lose their gear upon death everyime, but the player who won would be able to choose if he wants to take the players he just killed gear or not (because if it's worse/much worse than his, maybe he would consider leaving it than taking and selling/dismantling it)


    Sorry for my english, I tried my best really. :)


  • recklessreckless Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    To put it as simple as possible...It always felt REALLY good to go back to zones where I struggled to get through and be able to one shot the monsters!
  • botbot Member
    I don't think level equalization has any place outside of arena pvp. The point of PvE is to get stronger and feel strong, there's no need for equalization when revisiting older content.
  • ELWOWELWOW Member
    Well, If it is downgrade then it is somehow fine, but when it is done like in ESO for example where after start you hit like max lvl and have same amount of hp (almost) you don't feel the progress of the character, even if the overall combat time is the same you don't see the numbers grow with your character levels.
  • I think, if anything ,it should be an optional feature for helping new players or grouping with friends. Furthermore, I think equalization should only bring the players level down not up. FFXI had the best system for this that I have played, it was called level sync. Party leaders had the option to sync all members level to the same level as one of the party members (could only be used on lower level party members). Once, synced your gear would also be scaled to match the level you were at. I think some mentor system like this could work well in Ashes.
  • You can have the best of both worlds
    1. The arms race scenario just separates the community and prevents them playing together. That defeats the community objective of an MMORPG.
    2. The scale everything to the lowest common denominator concept allows everyone to play together but makes advancement and progress a pointless waste of time. What was the point of the effort.

    The solution is dualistic progression. You can advance and specialise, but at the cost of sacrifice in other areas. So in effect, everyone can become a specialist of their own desire, rather than a race to be an all encompassing god that only works in single player games. This way everyone has the potential for completely unique build styles that can take an eternity of effort to specialise into, without having the veteran run away condition that destroys MMOs and leaves new players far behind. The speed of development is also irrelevant for hardcore and casual players alike. It also means Players can tune builds to certain beasts and environments, provided there is a wide scope in those beasts and environments to tune a build to. It also allows teams to complement each other with completely different builds for plugging holes in capability.

    Basically variety and massive scope is a requirement. And if that is the foundation stone of a role playing MMO, I think thats exactly what it should be doing.
  • leameseleamese Member, Braver of Worlds
    For closed off content ok like arenas and instanced dungeons etc
  • I think the game would be better if it were scaled in such a way that level equalization was unnecessary. What I mean is it is very unrealistic, even in a fantasy game, for my xxxx attack to not do any damage. I don't mind going back to old locations and finding low level mobs that I can easily one shot.

    From the mobs point of view I don't think a high level player should be able to agro the entire zone and just sit there and take the attacks. Mobs should always pose a threat in great numbers.
  • dwiggitydwiggity Member, Leader of Men, Early Alpha One Tester
    Depends on how many max-level zones there are compared to lower-level ones. If half the world is max level content then I see no need to scale down to play through older zones. Although, a system where you can change your level/gear to fit the content you're fighting would be pretty nice. Perhaps some potion at a local shop that weakens a player to the level of the zone and can be undone at anytime with an antidote or something. Just a thought :smile:
  • GimlogGimlog Member
    edited January 10
    We I don't really see how the game could do without...

    There will be at least towns around the gates and if mobs lvls increase with nodes lvls , new players will start in areas to hard for them...

    I thinks there should be a min and a max lvl required to survive in a node and if you are down the min you be rise up and if you are up of the max you will be take down.
    But if I said survive it's because I thinks there should always be content that need at least 5 players to group to beat some mini boss like or groups of mobs that stick together, some content you will need to avoid as a solo player.

    I'll add that if the difference between those limits could be greater in nodes far from gates it will keep the filling of progression.

    And in the end there should be a evolution of the meaning of those limits, like in neighbour nodes of the gates the min will allow you to solo 60% of the mobs and at max 80% of them.
    While in far nodes the min allow you to deal with 10-15% of them and max 60%.

    For dungeon content because they will be open world I'll suggest a layers system where deeper you go wider the equalization will be with boss between area, so low lvl can't get to the end and let's have a bonus once a boss is beaten for the previous area ( max+1) , this way players who go to farm the end boss they don't struggle to much with the 1st boss .

    The most negative thing I see in a system like this it's that new players of old server will, if they join veterans friends in far nodes feel really hard the area they joined ... and be carry by the others.
    And in the end those nodes will end up being a training area of alts ...
    Maybe some things could easily be done to prevent it.
  • This is a topic that there is much to talk about.

    We can talk about many equalization variants, but something I am against is that they take away the sense of progression and power that you get from working hard on the game content without any compensation for it, I will not spend hours and hours playing, just to have my level be reduced. In terms of a pvp player it would be like equalizing the level of players in all pvp battles. That would make you play more for fun than to achieve something. That is why it is important that the drop is also equalized, in this way, players of all levels could continue to go to the same dungeons to get new things.
    The world of Ashes of Creation has a node system, these nodes level up and unlock new missions, new events, and new monsters.

    Imagine that you are level 3 and are in a level 1 node. The monsters you will fight with will be suitable for your level. But if a player starts playing when all the nodes are already claimed on the server, and all are level 4 or more. If the monsters correspond to a level 4 node, that will cause the new players not to have the slightest chance against them and not be able to level up properly, and that will limit new people who want to enter to play, and the server will start to die. That is why level equalization is necessary to ensure the growth and evolution of the world. Remember that in ashes of creation, there cannot be a server merge, since each one has its own history, so if there are no players, they will die.



    I would like to propose the following equalization idea:

    I will propose some assumptions just to be able to explain my example more easily.
    There are 6 levels of nodes. In the open world at the level 0 node monsters from level 1 to 14 will usually appear, at the level 1 node monsters from 10 to 24, and so on until the node level 6 with monsters from 60 to 74. That taking into account that there are areas in the open world that are made more to be in pt than alone.
    As for the instances, for example in a level 1 node there may be dungeons with a minimun level requirement of 10 to 24, and because it is a content made for larger pt, the monsters could have level 10 to 34. The important thing to emphasize here is that each zone has a range of monster levels. This level will be used as a reference for equalization.

    The equalization will be hidden for players, but it could be seen if you see the details tab of your damage caused during a fight.



    As for the drop it can be done in 3 ways:

    1.- That there is only one drop table, and the characters with higher levels that are equalized down have a greater chance of dropping items.


    2.- Each monster, worldboss, instance monster, and instance boss will have several drop tables. For example one for levels 1-9 another for 10-19, another for 20-29 and so on. If the pt is made up of 2 players lv 9, 2 lv 15 and 2 level 23. And a certain monster has a chance to
    lv 1-9: 30% basic potion
    lv 10-19: 30% medium potion
    lv 20-29: 30% large potion

     That 30% chance will be divided by the number of members of each group. So it would be that by killing that monster there is a 10% chance of a basic potion falling, 10% of a medium potion and 10% of a large potion. That would make drops useful for all levels of players in the pt, the same goes for the equipment. The advantage of this form of drop is that when dropping things from all levels of the players the bid prices will be accessible to all, especially for the equipment, the level 8 players will be the ones who will bid for the level 9 equipment if it comes out, the level 23 will not really want to bid for it.


    3.- That each monster has 1 main (dinamic) drop table, but that the items when delivered by the system to the player, are automatically re-balanced to their level.
    For example, if you are in pt in a dungeon and an armor and potion are found. If the bid of that item is won by a level 9 player, that item is automatically passed to the item that would drop in that range of player levels 1-9lv. So he would receive a basic potion and a level 5 armor, but if the bid were won by a level 23 character, then he would receive a large potion and a level 25 armor. The disadvantage of this system is that it will make low level players more difficult to obtain a particular item, the advantage is that higher players bid more, which will reward low players with money, which can be used to buy the same armor they wanted and get additional money that will be of utility to increase your level fast. I think this is the best system, it's simple, the drop will be useful for everyone, and the money will be very useful for beginner players to buy better things.



    Equalization although it seems a level equalization, is rather an equalization that will affect the damage caused, the damage received, the drop and the experience received, not in itself the level. The skills that have been unlocked throughout the levels, achievements etc., will be maintained. This equalization will be done in 2 ways:

    1.- For the open world. The equalization will be down and up.
    For example: There are 2 players, 1 level 65 and another level 8.

    We are in a level 4 node, with a level 54 monster.
    With 6,000,000 life, 1300atk, 280def.
    The level 4 node is for players from level 40 to 49, with monsters from level 40 to 54.
    Players with the same level of the node will keep their current levels and status without equalization. Players with higher levels will be equalized at level 49, or correctly said, their damage and defense will be equalized according to the formula, which will represent the damage and defense that a level 49 player has. In other words, the monster's damage will have a multiplier of 1.00 or more, and player damage will have one of 0.99 or less. Damage caused and received from lower level players will be equalized to the average node level (level 45).
    Both players will have their life, attack and defense as is, without any change.

    The entire formula will be done internally by the system about the damage caused and received.

    Now the node is level 4 and that monster is level 54, when the node rises to level 5 the new monsters that will come out when the others die will be level 64. But the damage caused and received will be equalized to the new lv of the node. With 8,000,000 life, 1500atk, 350def to give an example.


    2.- For dungeons, raids and instances. The damage caused and received is equalized to the minimum required level of the dungeon. If for example the dungeon requires level 20, then the damage caused and received from players above level 20, will be equalized to that of a level 20 player.

    If an equalization is allowed up in the dungeons, it will cause a level 5 player to enter the entire content of the game. Therefore, for dungeons, raids, and instances, there should be an equalization only down. For example: For a player to enter a dungeon level 28, which was enabled after the node reached level 2 (a node of level 20-29). It will mean that, in order for the player to enter the dungeon, he must first go up to level 28, and then he can enter, and all players above level 28 will be equalized down. There may be dungeons that require both requirements, have a mission, and have reached the minimum level.

    In this way the new players will be able to enjoy a progression, since the dungeons will be enabled according to their level, and their missions, as it would be originally also for the players who entered first.
    In addition, old players could enter them, with equalized damage to obtain new items, or equipment that is available for their current level.

    You could say that for example in the case of the previous dungeon we will always be doing a level 20 dungeon. But even for us it will seem that the dungeon is more difficult. To achieve this it is necessary that the equalization is internal. I would suggest that the life of the monsters be equalized as well, or have an option in the system that allows visualize or not the equalized life. That if the dungeon is level 20, and a certain monster in it has 1,000,000 life. And you are level 65, your equalizer multiplier is x11.00 so you will see the life of the equalized monster at your level at 11,000,000 life. Your current real damage you cause will be for example 1,000,000dps, and you will see those damage numbers coming out, however, that is just visual. The system applies internally, your 1,000,000 to your multiplier 0.090909 so the real dps that you will be causing to the monster would be 90,909dps.

    Such a system would make all players not feel equalized, since you would be seeing your real strength and damage and also the big damage of the monster, but the game is really equalizing everyone's damage.
    In the same way for a lower level player. You can choose to see or not the qualized life of the monsters, damage received and caused. In this way, a level 10 player in the open world, who faces a similar monster could choose whether to see the life of the level 20 monster as it is originally, but with its damage equalized (visibly superior damage) or equalize the life of the monster, so that the monster seems to have less life, and the damage matches the current damage the player has. All this is achieved with the multiplier.

    Using an equalization in this way, it will allow free exploration of the map by players of any level, without the node level affecting them negatively. In addition to the dungeons and raids, it will allow players to play without being belittled for their level. Because the items are adapted to the drop table of the level of the person who receives it. If the low players do not bid for an item for not having enough money, they will have the possibility of receiving more money, since the other higher players would be willing to bid more, for a equipment of their level. This money will help new players to get things easier and thus improve the market. In addition to allowing or not seeing life, and damage numbers received and caused equalized or not, for hight level players, or mixed for low level players will allow players to play without feeling that their strength or progression is affected.
  • myakumyaku Member
    As this is an mmo there is a good chance that you will be playing with a lower level friend at some point but or vice versa. It's no fun to have the high level person come in and one shot everything. I'd rather play with a friend and still have somewhat of a challenge. I think guild wars 2s model is the most successful at this. Yes the higher character will do more damage than a low level, but they are not invincible and you don't feel useless watching your friend one shot everything.
  • i have several ideas (numbers are irrelevant) please read them all <3

    1: dont have regions based on levels, the monsters and levels should be randomly placed or mixed together.
    or maybe dont even let monsters have levels! instead, give them different amounts of hp or grades such as platinum/bronze or easy/medium/hard
    ----
    2: dont de-level the mobs to players, but always level up the mobs to be challenging to players.
    basically it would be like this: only players get de-leveled and mobs dont.
    ----
    3: when players are de-leveled loot & xp is normal as if the player is back to being low level.
    and since all the creatures give specific loot and materials, i think there will always be hunters.
    ---
    4: you can forget about de-leveling players to low-level mobs but give the mobs a fair amount of materials in order to always have a demand for killing them and the loot.
    ---
    5: we players go through the experience once already and i feel sometimes its unnecessary to always have a hard time for killing a basic monster!
    ---
    6: maybe things should not even be about levels!
    make it about how the world is changing and how there could be a new type of monster that spawns at random locations which drops different materials, therefore people would always be on the lookout at all over their region for finding new/rare creatures or events

  • DecimusDecimus Member, Braver of Worlds
    Not a fan of level scaling. Not scaling down, and definitely not scaling up - that ruins the whole sense of progression.

    Perhaps for some instanced dungeons it would make sense, but I would prefer if the world actually felt dangerous with skull level enemies and things like that.

    In other games I've also enjoyed planning my leveling routes, which quests to complete in which order and so on.
    As long as there are multiple leveling paths available, I've found that to be much preferable to content leveling with you and subsequently erasing that sense of character progression.

    Besides, I believe one can do overleveled content and still have fun doing that if the quest lines are enjoyable (and perhaps there could be some good utility/crafting oriented rewards that feel rewarding for players of all levels). Nothing wrong with taking some time off from the high level content and just chilling in the lower level areas.
  • I really don't like the concept...In final fantasy XIV I appreciated having it for instanced content like dungeons and raids but in Ashes, I think it would be a really weird feature to have. I remember Steven saying that zones wouldn't be divided by levels and there would be a mix just like @caedwyn explained. So honestly, I don't get the point of content equalization when people of all levels can enjoy content in one area with different levels of mobs...
  • nightragnernightragner Member, Braver of Worlds
    Not telling Intrepid how to do their job but i don like those types of scale down / mentor systems in MMOs!

    But Personally i prefer "Mob Scaling" as it is on a player by player basis set to a maximum of level 49 on a 7% difficulty reduction this can even be done on a node level scale bringing a player UP NOT others DOWN call it magic or what ever (Keeping the balance) unlike other MMORPGs people keep referencing the areas / zones are not in set levels for a path to level on so with a guided levelling system their needs to be a system to benefit players that do not have Guildies of friends online all the time or players will struggle to level and even worse so it Support classes are not even to DPS classes, this whole world is potential end game content just not explored yet, Without a Mentor/others new comers may struggle more and leave the game (which none of us want this game to turn anyone away from this community) - the game-play and levelling experience goes hand in hand with classes and quest designs so making improvements in one area will also lessen the load on a player in other areas of the game.

    Again we all want this game to be fun and everyone wants it "their way" BUT sorry to say that should not be the case for any of us including Steven and the team as it is an MMORPG, a Franchise for a community to last a long time we hope and some balance must be held to have this game be welcoming for everyone new to MMOs and veterans a like which is which is where i feel for the team and these hard choices that i think as a franchise community we should all make some Sacrifices for the betterment and long life of the game!
  • GubstepGubstep Member, Braver of Worlds
    I like Path of Exiles system, where it's a toggle.
    Sometimes I might want to be brought down to level to quest with friends, but other times I don't want to enable this feature.
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  • ilisfetilisfet Member, Braver of Worlds
    I haven't experienced this much, honestly. Or rather, I've only played 3 MMOs: RuneScape, Eden Eternal and The Elder Scrolls Online, and only ESO has any form of level equalization.

    ESO's form is... disappointing. I get it makes all content relevant, but it also standardizes the difficulty around the lowest common denominator. Before you could go to a high level zone to test yourself, or the post Lv50 zones, but now it's all face-roll ez.

    "Then try using worse gear" No. You fail to understand the core issue. I seek to push my understanding and execution of the game, challenging content is required for that knowledge to be tested. Fighting while gimping yourself is like fighting with one arm behind your back -- when the fight starts to get interesting, you unconsciously bring out your other arm. You can't be pushed like that, splitting your attention between the fight and keeping yourself from going all out.

    But that's a bit tangential to the discussion. From what I've heard of mentoring systems with level equalization, they sound pretty good on paper: a high level player helps out a low level one, while getting reduced to their level so the veteran doesn't end up overpowering everything. Beyond that, I can't think of a good reason to implement level equalization other than as a means to let even bad players beat all the content. The lure of a leveling system is you get to feel your character grow from weak to strong over time. Making them always strong defeats the purpose of said system.
  • zeyjizeyji Member
    I personally have experienced scaling in different forms in ff14, gw2 and wow. I don’t like the concept of the scaling in an open world (gw2) as it diminishes the feeling of getting stronger. I want to go back to the newbie part of the game and see that I’m stronger (even if one-shotting everything feels weird). In instances it is kind of nice to support friends or be able to do old content again. Raids and dungeons take quite some effort to create and it is always sad to lose them completely after new content comes out. I’m a bit torn between the wow system (leave everything as it is regarding class abilities) and ff14 (take away the abilities after the level you are down scaled to)
  • IshkaIshka Member
    To me, to make this feature properly it should be something you choose to or not use in the first place. People should not be forced to scale down their stats to fit the zone's level they're playing in. Some people mentionned a mentoring system, which would do the trick, as long as the system is properly designed in a way the mentors will always be stronger, but not to the point they roll on everything, while the beginner is just running behind gathering the loots. It should be aimed at some sort of "educationnal" purpose for new players to still be able to play with higher level players while having the possibility to learn the game by ... playing it ? XD

    Thinking of how the game should be, what I think is this should be more suited for instanced dungeons. But that would limit it's use a lot, and I doubt it would be worth making it.

    What I wonder is how the system will work in terms of stats, some people had ideas with stats directly decreasing to fit the level of the place they're in. On the paper it should work. But as far as I remember, we're not in an PvE only game.

    What if I play with a newcomer with my stats decreased a lot, and some High level thug decides that my purse would fit better on its belt than mine. With my stats decreased he'll just destroy me without efforts, without being penalized too much by the system as we are at the same level range.

    The system should be adapted to not decrease the player's stats directly, but somehow the player's efficiency against the monsters. Don't ask me how, I got no ideas. But it's the only way in my eyes this feature should work.
  • NarysNarys Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    Personally I don't like the idea of de-leveling or equalisation and found that it really reduces the variety in the game world. I enjoyed the mentoring based systems of Age of Conan that would temporarily increase one of the players levels so they could play together in the same zone. The boosted player wouldn't have the increase spell/skill ranks and new skills but the values would temporarily inflate. It was a great way to include friends and lower level players.
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  • Hi Devs and hi Glorious Ashes Community!

    For me, i don´t like the idea of a genreal Level equlization. But it for sure makes sense to be consider implementing it in some parts of the game like dungeons (Maybe not even all, depends on the way dungeons will be designed) and global Events, to extend the number of participation in those for the longest Time possible. ( So low or mid lvl Player don´t just feel overun. ) And not to forgett that higher Level and better geared player always can make use of their Equipment or other utilities only they have access to yet. To prevent powerleveling and newer player to rush the game just add an Lev. Gap at which no EXP or Quest progression is made, if your buddy is to high ahead of your level.

    But the Open World should stay raw and rough as it is ment to be for a world that is about to be re-discovered and wild at it´s nature.

    High hopes for AoC!
    Peace out.
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