Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
If you can quest anywhere at any level, get ready for FACEROLL questing zones.. Just go play ESO and you know what I'm talking about.
If you want me to run outdated content as a high level character then Id prefer to run those old dungeons with my current gear and have those old dungeons aviable in a special difficulty setting that balances itself out on my level (not the other way around)
Altough then again, I have to say, the concept of being able to run through old dungeons again without having to create a new character sounds amazing, especially if you have like a friend or so that just started playing or you get into a conversation with some noob and he asks you if you wanna run through that old dungeon. Being able to do so without just carrying him through - or simply to put up a challenge to yourself because you really liked that dungeon back then but never could finish it solo. That sounds really cool
But it should be an option, not enforced. it should still be possible for a high level player to carry a low level player through a dungeon. Or simply farming a low lv dungeon as a high lv character for reasons above
its also great for event dungeons, to allow matching between high end and low end players without having to worry about low end players missing out on the event due to high end players oneshotting an event mob or so
As for open fields and simliar: There should be a clear level cap and progression. Fields designed for level 1 characters should only ever be worth spending time on as a level 1 character. There should never be a bunch of max Lv characters grinding through low lv content to grind XP and complete quests
If it's the former, I really dislike it because although it gives you more options of places to level up in, it ruins a lot of the character progression since all the mobs take the exact same time to kill. You don't feel that your character has gotten stronger because everything else around you has also gotten stronger.
If you are talking about the latter, I believe it can work but balance is always going to be an issue here.
Only use up-scaling in PvP events if low levels pretty much need to participate. Events like defending your own caravan should not be max-level only. If it were a guaranteed loss for low levels to run a caravan, then they wouldn't run caravans at all. I can see certain PvP events where scaling would be undesirable, like sieges. A bunch of fresh characters probably shouldn't be defending a city.
Well humble puffin said t hat game really starts at max level well that is kind of a problem.
For example if you in a guild you basically have to wait to max level to play. But if guildies could play together for most of the leveling proseess. Then that would make more closely knit guilds and by the time they get to max level as far as skill is concerned should be raid ready or near raid ready, insteaqd of waiting till max level to do that. But yes ig get it you will only be leveling for lets say one month. So really no reason to dedicate so much content and zones to leveling. I say this carefully cause the leveling process is very important in an MMO
I'd almost prefer if Ashes didn't have leveling at all, but I know that's not a what the community or Intrepid wants out of the game.
So, since leveling is necessary and a big contributor to people's immersion and long-term satisfaction, I think that any level equalization system needs to be as seamless and optional as possible. (And only allow down-leveling, of course.)
For example, let people down-level to match whatever their target is, just by selecting it and hitting a button. That could be a party member, a monster or NPC, a rival player that they want to duel, or maybe even a dungeon entrance. And more importantly, only give exp/loot rewards to players (or parties) who are the appropriate level for that target.
Allowing players to obliterate low-level mobs for get easy money/exp/crafting materials does not adhere to AoC's design principle of Appropriate Risk vs. Reward. But down-scaling can allow those mobs/dungeons to be fought on an appropriate level for an appropriate challenge, with an appropriate reward (which may drop only from those low level mobs). The same should apply to parties and people seeking to "power level" or mentor. That is, they can play normally with down-levelled mentors, but power leveling should be impossible. (Power leveling would ruin the "meaning and immersion" behind the leveling process right?)
Also, I think players should retain all their abilities and stat profiles, so that their character plays the same even when downscaled. But lowering a character's stats to be level-appropriate isn't enough on its own, since having more active and passive abilities (and gear/set bonuses and skill levels) would still make a down-levelled character quite powerful. The system needs to be a bit more complicated behind-the-scenes. But those balancing details should be hidden and aren't really relevant in this discussion anyways. (As long as it's not too wonky, such that a downscaled character could be significantly weaker than a non-scaled low-level character. People would hate that.)
Edit: I forgot about PvP. I think it would make the most sense if low-tier nodes and caravans had lower levels required for participation, and if you want to get anything from attacking/defending those objectives you have to down-level to match it. But if you wanna go destroy a level 1 caravan on a max level character, I guess you can, but you shouldn't get anything out it except maybe corruption. The same should obviously apply for ganking in the wild.
Oh, and no changing levels in the middle of combat. If you down-level you gotta play the whole fight out at that level, even if it means death.
Howere the "problem" of boosting new players remains. I would suggest, that the ammount of ExP. you earn would refflect on your contribution to the task, so that a tank would get more if he actually tanked the mobs ore a warrior dealt dmg. so that a over powered player would take all ExP. form the low level players.
I like the thought of optional level equalization. If you want to run with a lower level toon, when you group you have the option of level equalization if the level difference is greater than X levels. This makes the content more interesting for the higher level toon as they still have to play their role tank/dps/healer and not just slaughter everything by virtue of overpowering the low level mobs. By choosing to play at the level of the lowest person, the higher toon could also get quest rewards, but in the form of faction increases with the quest giver or node.
To encourage higher-level folks to do the level equalization, make it so that if the average level of the group killing the mobs is more than X levels higher than the mobs, the mobs drop no loot outside of quest items nor give faction.
Outside of the group setting, you could also limit material drops in general from mobs if the person killing the mobs is more than X levels higher than them. This prevents high level folks from slaughtering an entire newb area to get the mob material drops and flood the market with them. You could have a setting in character preferences that can be turned on and off which allows toons to choose whether to level match an area in order to get loot out of the area. This could apply to gathering too. In order to gather in a newb area, you would have to select to de-level to the current mob equivalents in order to gather there.
I say optional level equalization because if I am running to a raid location as a level 40 healer, I don't want to die to the level 20 mobs that jump me because I've been de-leveled to the area level. Also, for power-leveling, by allowing characters to not choose to do level equalization, high-level characters can still help an alt/friend gain levels while getting no exp and no one would get loot.
Level equalization to the area could also help folks practice mechanics in lower level dungeons before facing a higher level dungeon. But please, make it optional. There is nothing more satisfying than going back as a higher level toon and slaughtering that named mob in the newbie area that killed you countless times. Loot was never the goal; revenge was sweet.
I don't think a level equalization that raises someone should ever be used. Getting to higher level areas and content is the reward for all your hard work. No one should get to skip ahead by joining a group or raid.
The last thing I want is for the Wolves that were a nuisance to my level 1 brand new character to still be a nuisance to my maxed out in some of the best gear character.
In instanced content and PVP arena type setups it should be fine but other than that I am not sure it has a real place in the genre. Maybe if you have scaling only on special mobs like bosses and rares but normal mobs stay the same level forever. I don't mind fighting stronger wolves but I mind fighting the same wolves that are much stronger for whatever reason.
The reduction should nerf you close to the designed character level for the area.
I think such system is great for bringing immersion by not one shotting based on level and deteriorating low level mob grind as viable money making method.
You're bleeding for salvation, but you can't see that you are the damnation itself." -Norther
“What if I want to play with my low level friends?” Then play with them, you don’t need to be deleveled to go find them in an continuous open-world.
“What if older content gets abandoned?” Design it better, raids and dungeons should be appealing for some reason besides the challenge otherwise why run them? Either material drops, cosmetic rewards, or to stop some negative world-effect.
“What about max levels vs. low levels in open world PvP?” Power progression should come from synergy of your gained ability augments and gear stats, and it should never be such a huge difference from lvl1 to lvl50 that you could one shot a newbie unless they’re wearing no armor at all.
I’ve played content scaling games and it just feels bad being forced to delevel just to engage in some content.
This will have a significant impact on the PvP aspects of Ashes, and so even if for no other reason, this should not be implemented.
To me equalization is a cheap way for developers to avoid creating more content. It is just another way to instill the idea that repetition is okay. I'd much rather feel like I'm in a massive race, getting closer to the next biggest challenge than feel like I'm running in place on a treadmill.
I don't think I've ever seen a scaling system that completely removed a sense of progression, only the godliness of player characters. I suppose that it is kind of a cheap way to rein in intense character values, as another way to handle the situation is to just make sure that things never become that intense to begin with.
Keeping player characters tame reflects roleplaying a mere mortal character. Allowing as many players in a battle as possible, without the battle getting cheesed, works in the best interest of an MMO. What kind of power should human, elf, or dwarf be able to experience in an MMORPG?
Indeed a mentoring system would be a big + in my opinion. that way older content stays relevant. tho do allow for a desync feature as well with no rewards.
A hundred thumbs up!
I dont think you should ever be forceabbly de-leveled. It is something you should opt in or out of. For example through mentorship systems. I will Quote two previous posts here that i both agree with
So all in all my opionion on the subject is that yes an Opt in Opt out downward level eqaulization for mentorship systems, and playing with new layers or toons would be ok. But id take it further and say that old content should also be scaled upward as well. an example of this would be.
Like i may have oringianlly completed the (O Dungeon) at level 10 and said dungeon had X, Y, Z mechanic,
i can go back and re do that dungeon at lvl 50, the enemies are harder than they were at lower levels so they have scaled up, and X Y & Z mechanics are present plus additional A,B & C Mechanics.
It would also be cool if this was done that drops found within a dungeon scale up as well. eg i get a great ring at level 10 by the time im level 25 that ring is worthless but i run the dungeon again later at level 50 a get that ring again by chance and its great again.
While Im not completelt against the Idea- Id like to hear what Intrepids thoughts are on such a system how they would implement it and what its uses would be, before i gave a difinitive Yay or Nay to the idea
Sometimes that go crazy if you place those run on Legendary equipments at lvl 50 , mob become god like around you.
And it rise rewards haswell ofc.
But Ashes of Creation from what i understand will be huge so toons could have leveling zones or content and till have plenty of max level content or zones. Not sure if we are going to have leveling zones per say. But the less leveling content you have the more you will have at max level. Ounce againd I say this carefully becasue leveling process is very important.