But you don't seem to want to be constructive and past over the difference in our view to speak of the difference there could be between a archetype and the 7 subclass influence by it.
In this topic it about support and healers, tank in or out don't matter in what I proposed.
How does a subclasse support will be able to support vs a archetype support.
The difference that could be between them was what I proposed.
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Wandering MistModerator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@Gimlog@noaani@Caeryl and @Damokles You are all wrong. There is only ever room for ONE carry on the team, the rest are all supports.
But you don't seem to want to be constructive and past over the difference in our view to speak of the difference there could be between a archetype and the 7 subclass influence by it.
In this topic it about support and healers, tank in or out don't matter in what I proposed.
How does a subclasse support will be able to support vs a archetype support.
The difference that could be between them was what I proposed.
A support is a class that directly influences another player. A tank doesnt directly influence the players, but rather indirectly through keeping adds away. Supports directly heal or buff other players as their main directive.
Melee enduring doesnt just mean that they are typical tanks, but that they are able to endure overall damage BETTER then other base classes normally can.
I count the fighter as melee enduring, because if i imagine a fighter, then i dont see a glasscannon but rather a seasoned fighter who keeps on dishing out pain while fighting enemy after enemy (maybe not direct damage shielding, but rather lifeleeach etc?)
Kinda feel like they're going to hold to the trinity, and have 2 classes serve as multi-role versatiles.
Tank and Fighter being meat shields.
Rogue and Mage being DPS
Bard and Cleric being Support
Summoner and Ranger being versatile (able to fill any role based on build)
Summoner has a variety of options with summons and eidolons, ranger has always been a tougher fighter type but also includes ranged combat and a potential for dps and stealth roles. If rangers have a bit of access to magical (druid like) spells and magic, they'd be able to serve any role to a limited degree.
As for the OP, I personally prefer a healer class that requires attention and effort. Long as I can maximize my service to the group by shifted from defense to assault as the need shifts and changes, I'd be happy.
I particularly enjoy DPS focused healing classes, leech healers or healers that heal/support as they attack. I think the augmentation system and mixing class types will really help to give players that desperately needed and desired versatility.
As long as healing/support isn't actually limited to just a defensive role.
I also like alternative styles of support to healing itself. Played City of Heroes a lot and being able to avoid the normal "healer" style of defender that focused more on throwing shields and resistances on players to keep them alive that way rather than just healing them to keep them alive.
@Damokles@noaani . So if I had said tank that can support you would have disagree to ?
To you there are only 16 support and none of the 12 support subclass will be able to support?
We were talking about archetype supports and subclass supports.
I count all classes with a Bard or Cleric in the first slot as a archetype support and all classes with a Bard or Cleric in secondary position as a subclass support.
Typical support classes: Templar, Apostle, Shadow Disciple, Protector, Oracle, shaman, high priest, scryer, tellsword, siren, trickster, song warden, magician, songcaller, soul weaver, ministrel. (16 archetype supports)
A "tank" that can support would be a Paladin or Argent for Tank and Highsword and Bladedancer for Fighter.
I think that the MAIN OBJECTIVE of a subclass support is not to support, because that is NOT THEIR BASE CLASS. Do i believe that they COULD support? If they had to, yes. Shiuld they? Not really.
A tanks main role is to keep himself alive for as long as possible, not others. Would a Paladin have heals or an Argent Buffs? Most likely. Does it change anything for their main duty? No.
To you there are only 16 support and none of the 12 support subclass will be able to support?
To me there are only 8 support classes (Bard/*), and there are 8 healer classes (Cleric/*). The only way I would say there are 16 support classes is if the Summoner was stated to be a support class rather than a DPS class (which is possible).
As said above, we don't know how much support a */Bard will be, nor how much of a healer a */Cleric will be. Since we know that your primary class determines your role, we know that at best, it won't be all that much.
To you there are only 16 support and none of the 12 support subclass will be able to support?
To me there are only 8 support classes (Bard/*), and there are 8 healer classes (Cleric/*). The only way I would say there are 16 support classes is if the Summoner was stated to be a support class rather than a DPS class (which is possible).
As said above, we don't know how much support a */Bard will be, nor how much of a healer a */Cleric will be. Since we know that your primary class determines your role, we know that at best, it won't be all that much.
I would honestly count the cleric under support, but that is depending on the perspective i believe xD.
(Reason: healing counts as supporting other players does it not? )
To you there are only 16 support and none of the 12 support subclass will be able to support?
To me there are only 8 support classes (Bard/*), and there are 8 healer classes (Cleric/*). The only way I would say there are 16 support classes is if the Summoner was stated to be a support class rather than a DPS class (which is possible).
As said above, we don't know how much support a */Bard will be, nor how much of a healer a */Cleric will be. Since we know that your primary class determines your role, we know that at best, it won't be all that much.
I would honestly count the cleric under support, but that is depending on the perspective i believe xD.
(Reason: healing counts as supporting other players does it not? )
It does, but when your class archetypes are tank, healer, DPS and support, cleric counts as a healer, as it fits in there better (and no other class fits in there).
This same argument could be made to classify tanks as DPS, as tanks do deal damage - they just happen to have a role that they fit in to better than DPS, and so that is where they are placed.
Since both healers and support are more focused on their allies over their enemies though, it is very appropriate to talk about healers and support in a single discussion (note the title of this thread).
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
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To me support are those that keep the group alive by opposition at those that make it go forward.
It isn't semantics. You were just mistaken.
But you don't seem to want to be constructive and past over the difference in our view to speak of the difference there could be between a archetype and the 7 subclass influence by it.
In this topic it about support and healers, tank in or out don't matter in what I proposed.
How does a subclasse support will be able to support vs a archetype support.
The difference that could be between them was what I proposed.
.....woops, wrong game :P
A support is a class that directly influences another player. A tank doesnt directly influence the players, but rather indirectly through keeping adds away. Supports directly heal or buff other players as their main directive.
But what if the support was the carry the whole time?
They all underestimate the full ap sona/lux support until they kill the enemy adc 1v1
Kinda feel like they're going to hold to the trinity, and have 2 classes serve as multi-role versatiles.
Tank and Fighter being meat shields.
Rogue and Mage being DPS
Bard and Cleric being Support
Summoner and Ranger being versatile (able to fill any role based on build)
Summoner has a variety of options with summons and eidolons, ranger has always been a tougher fighter type but also includes ranged combat and a potential for dps and stealth roles. If rangers have a bit of access to magical (druid like) spells and magic, they'd be able to serve any role to a limited degree.
As for the OP, I personally prefer a healer class that requires attention and effort. Long as I can maximize my service to the group by shifted from defense to assault as the need shifts and changes, I'd be happy.
I particularly enjoy DPS focused healing classes, leech healers or healers that heal/support as they attack. I think the augmentation system and mixing class types will really help to give players that desperately needed and desired versatility.
As long as healing/support isn't actually limited to just a defensive role.
I also like alternative styles of support to healing itself. Played City of Heroes a lot and being able to avoid the normal "healer" style of defender that focused more on throwing shields and resistances on players to keep them alive that way rather than just healing them to keep them alive.
Fact; almost all MMO class systems are based around tanks, healers, DPS and in some games, support.
This doesn't leave room for tanks to be support any more than it leaves room for DPS to be support.
Being wrong or mistaken is not exactly a bad thing. Attempting to defend a factually incorrect position, however, is.
To you there are only 16 support and none of the 12 support subclass will be able to support?
We were talking about archetype supports and subclass supports.
I count all classes with a Bard or Cleric in the first slot as a archetype support and all classes with a Bard or Cleric in secondary position as a subclass support.
Typical support classes: Templar, Apostle, Shadow Disciple, Protector, Oracle, shaman, high priest, scryer, tellsword, siren, trickster, song warden, magician, songcaller, soul weaver, ministrel. (16 archetype supports)
Subclass suports: highsword, paladin, cultist, soulbow, acolyte, necromancer, bladedancer, argent, charlatan, bowsinger, sorcerer, enchanter. (12 subclass supports)
A "tank" that can support would be a Paladin or Argent for Tank and Highsword and Bladedancer for Fighter.
I think that the MAIN OBJECTIVE of a subclass support is not to support, because that is NOT THEIR BASE CLASS. Do i believe that they COULD support? If they had to, yes. Shiuld they? Not really.
A tanks main role is to keep himself alive for as long as possible, not others. Would a Paladin have heals or an Argent Buffs? Most likely. Does it change anything for their main duty? No.
As said above, we don't know how much support a */Bard will be, nor how much of a healer a */Cleric will be. Since we know that your primary class determines your role, we know that at best, it won't be all that much.
I would honestly count the cleric under support, but that is depending on the perspective i believe xD.
(Reason: healing counts as supporting other players does it not?
It does, but when your class archetypes are tank, healer, DPS and support, cleric counts as a healer, as it fits in there better (and no other class fits in there).
This same argument could be made to classify tanks as DPS, as tanks do deal damage - they just happen to have a role that they fit in to better than DPS, and so that is where they are placed.
Since both healers and support are more focused on their allies over their enemies though, it is very appropriate to talk about healers and support in a single discussion (note the title of this thread).
"And let me make shure that he stays dead."