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Do you think that racial passives or even abilities is necessary?

George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
Or even a good idea?
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Comments

  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    There will be racial augments for abilities.
    I would be okay with minor racial passives.
    I think they once said that races seed the beginning stats or something.
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Beginning stats and augments are enough for me tbh.

    Any more than that and people will start wanting specific races for specific roles.
  • Yes I’m in favor of racial augments and different early-level stat spreads among the available races.

    If neither of those exist then there’s not even a point to having varying races in Ashes.
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I'd much prefer if Races were a purely cosmetic choice. Why do you need special Racial passives?
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  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    I'd much prefer if Races were a purely cosmetic choice. Why do you need special Racial passives?

    Yep.
    It always ends up with Meta choices otherwise which is ugly.
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I'd much prefer if Races were a purely cosmetic choice. Why do you need special Racial passives?

    Well, i believe that it all started with Dungeons&Dragons. I personally think that racial passives give the whole game a bit more depth.
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  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Damokles wrote: »
    I'd much prefer if Races were a purely cosmetic choice. Why do you need special Racial passives?

    Well, i believe that it all started with Dungeons&Dragons. I personally think that racial passives give the whole game a bit more depth.

    What do you mean by depth?
  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I would encourage those that like to wishlist about what they want in Ashes to first educate themselves about the information that has already been released. While it is all fine and good to show your opinion and feelings about what you would want to see, coming in half-informed means you just end up propagating negative feedback loops. The harder you cement yourself into the mentality of "they must do it this way or I'm outtie!" the harder your mental hype bubble is going to burst when those outcomes are not realized.

    "In keeping with our theme of Consequence, and unlike other games, race won’t just be a matter of look, with relatively inconsequential abilities tacked on. Instead they integrate deeply into our class system, augmenting and changing the basic chassis provided by our eight core archetypes. Our goal here is to create a system where an elven fighter feels different, but serves the same role as a dwarven fighter."
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Racial_abilities
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  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Damokles wrote: »
    I'd much prefer if Races were a purely cosmetic choice. Why do you need special Racial passives?

    Well, i believe that it all started with Dungeons&Dragons. I personally think that racial passives give the whole game a bit more depth.

    Does it though? Let's take combat stats as an example since a lot of mmorpgs give slightly different stat values to each race. If you make these variances too large you completely unbalance the game, so most developers do just tiny differences (an Orc may have 1-2 more points of strength than a Human for example). The thing is, in normal gameplay it's almost impossible to feel the difference in those racial stats, and if you can't feel the difference between playing as a Human vs an Orc, what's the point in having those stats in the first place?
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  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Damokles wrote: »
    I'd much prefer if Races were a purely cosmetic choice. Why do you need special Racial passives?

    Well, i believe that it all started with Dungeons&Dragons. I personally think that racial passives give the whole game a bit more depth.

    Does it though? Let's take combat stats as an example since a lot of mmorpgs give slightly different stat values to each race. If you make these variances too large you completely unbalance the game, so most developers do just tiny differences (an Orc may have 1-2 more points of strength than a Human for example). The thing is, in normal gameplay it's almost impossible to feel the difference in those racial stats, and if you can't feel the difference between playing as a Human vs an Orc, what's the point in having those stats in the first place?

    We were by passive, but fair point with the stat points.
    I like the way how WoW handled passives for the most part at the beginning. A dwarven priest had a antifear spell, while a night elf priest had a aoe dmg spell. Darves could see treasures on their map, while elves had more speed and could turn invis while standing still.
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  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Do I think that racial passives or even abilities is necessary? Nope do I think they are cool and add to the game? absolutely
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    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Nagash wrote: »
    Do I think that racial passives or even abilities is necessary? Nope do I think they are cool and add to the game? absolutely

    Ok, what do they add to the game?
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  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Nagash wrote: »
    Do I think that racial passives or even abilities is necessary? Nope do I think they are cool and add to the game? absolutely

    Ok, what do they add to the game?

    They add a sense of consequence to the game.
    To quote Steven: "Our goal is to create a system, where an elven fighter feels different, but serves the same role as a dwarven fighter."
    I like that idea.
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  • JahlonJahlon Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha One
    I think they are a great idea, and the secondary class augments are almost a necessity or why bother having classes instead of just the 8 base archetyupes.

    I also believe they are a monumental undertaking and something that Intrepid didn't think about before they posted their timeline.
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    Make sure to check out Ashes 101
  • Yes because a master race needs to be established
    Where there is light, there is shadow. I am the shadow without the light. The shadow of nothingness. The VoidShadow
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    voidshadow wrote: »
    Yes because a master race needs to be established

    It is already established: Tulnar.
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  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Nagash wrote: »
    Do I think that racial passives or even abilities is necessary? Nope do I think they are cool and add to the game? absolutely

    Ok, what do they add to the game?

    well a ork is going to be stronger than an elf but an elf would be faster
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • MeowsedMeowsed Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I don't think it matters at this point. They already have to balance 64 different class combinations and hundreds (thousands, maybe?) of skills/augments against each other. Min-maxing and meta building will already be exceedingly difficult, important, and rampant.

    Intrepid has already committed to either:

    1) Vast imbalance,
    -- Which gets boring as soon as everyone figures out the best builds,
    -- But isn't hard for newbies to keep up;
    2) Rapidly rotating metas,
    -- Where they constantly nerf what is strongest and see what pops up next,
    -- Which is more interesting, and probably best long-term,
    -- But more difficult to keep up with, and especially hard on players with less time to min-max; or
    3) An impossible and unending task of actually balancing 1000s of builds in a hugely complex world,
    -- Which is just not feasible, unless they become the largest MMO on the market and can afford to hire 50 devs whose sole job is to monitor and balance every skill and build in the game over the course of 5 years,
    -- Essential doing 10-100 times the balance work of DotA or LoL (100+ characters, 5 abilities each).

    So yeah, knowing that, it really doesn't hurt to have a little bit of extra flavor thrown in via racial abilities/stats. Some people will enjoy the "consequences" (I would prefer the term "identity") of their racial choices. The meta will be a mess with or without racial deviance.
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  • i would like to see big changes between races in stats and animations so that way u can discover ur own build and personality in ur character for example an elf figther could go all the way to agility and have a lot of it or try to get strengh instead and be a strong and faster figther so in that point i dont think there will be a meta with so many ways to progress in horizontal and vertical, for what i know there are always ppl that like to be the best and do what other ppl do but still that is not worth if u dont learn to master ur playstyle so yeah i would like to the big impactful decisions like the race and other stuff in game not like many games that have a lot of diferent races with literaly no huge diference between
  • Damokles wrote: »
    voidshadow wrote: »
    Yes because a master race needs to be established

    It is already established: Tulnar.

    1. You a racist
    2. corrupted ugly animal beings are the master race? Please. gtfo furry
    3. I am not racist. Just stating facts
    Where there is light, there is shadow. I am the shadow without the light. The shadow of nothingness. The VoidShadow
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    leonerdo wrote: »
    2) Rapidly rotating metas,
    This is actually what I am hoping the game will have.

    It is the best way to balance the game (sure, you may suck this patch, but I'm sure you'll be all good next patch), but it is also probably the best way to guarantee that no one is left out due to class - at least on a guild level.

    If patches are once a month, and players know that the meta will change at least a little bit then, guilds aren't going to ask someone to reroll or sit, because who knows what will happen next patch.

    I can see this being the case in both PvP and PvE.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Damokles wrote: »
    voidshadow wrote: »
    Yes because a master race needs to be established

    It is already established: Tulnar.

    Filth
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    voidshadow wrote: »
    Damokles wrote: »
    voidshadow wrote: »
    Yes because a master race needs to be established

    It is already established: Tulnar.

    1. You a racist
    2. corrupted ugly animal beings are the master race? Please. gtfo furry
    3. I am not racist. Just stating facts
    Nagash wrote: »
    Damokles wrote: »
    voidshadow wrote: »
    Yes because a master race needs to be established

    It is already established: Tulnar.

    Filth

    1. We at least didnt run like headless chickens, you all ran while we stayed.
    2. You are not even undead Nagash, we all know that you are just a normal human with a superiority complex!
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  • I think they can add an interesting element to the game as long as they don't make you feel like you are putting yourself at a disadvantage by not picking a particular race. I mainly do quests so it doesn't really matter too much to me but I could see how it could be an issue for pvp or if you are trying to maximize you're efficiency in dungeons/raids. Maybe they could add racials that have more to do with crafting or other mechanics that wouldn't impact combat.
  • VentharienVentharien Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    To have races be distinct, and at all be a meaningful choice? Absolutely. If there's no difference why even have separate races? Or cultures? Having it cut down to a cosmetic difference only take away from player customization and specialization. And from DnD, to early WoW, they have been fairly common. Other than games with just humans of course like Ultima.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Damokles wrote: »
    voidshadow wrote: »
    Damokles wrote: »
    voidshadow wrote: »
    Yes because a master race needs to be established

    It is already established: Tulnar.

    1. You a racist
    2. corrupted ugly animal beings are the master race? Please. gtfo furry
    3. I am not racist. Just stating facts
    Nagash wrote: »
    Damokles wrote: »
    voidshadow wrote: »
    Yes because a master race needs to be established

    It is already established: Tulnar.

    Filth

    1. We at least didnt run like headless chickens, you all ran while we stayed.
    2. You are not even undead Nagash, we all know that you are just a normal human with a superiority complex!

    tumblr_inline_nseuyfxt4G1qk8y5x_540.gif
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Nagash wrote: »
    Damokles wrote: »
    voidshadow wrote: »
    Damokles wrote: »
    voidshadow wrote: »
    Yes because a master race needs to be established

    It is already established: Tulnar.

    1. You a racist
    2. corrupted ugly animal beings are the master race? Please. gtfo furry
    3. I am not racist. Just stating facts
    Nagash wrote: »
    Damokles wrote: »
    voidshadow wrote: »
    Yes because a master race needs to be established

    It is already established: Tulnar.

    Filth

    1. We at least didnt run like headless chickens, you all ran while we stayed.
    2. You are not even undead Nagash, we all know that you are just a normal human with a superiority complex!

    tumblr_inline_nseuyfxt4G1qk8y5x_540.gif

    Gotcha good. ;)
    roaaztC.gif
  • I like racial abilities when they're more of a side utility (for life-skilling or something else) rather than a combat ability, just for the extra flavour and to avoid influencing racial choice too much.
  • MorashtakMorashtak Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited March 2020
    Damokles wrote: »
    To quote Steven: "Our goal is to create a system, where an elven fighter feels different, but serves the same role as a dwarven fighter."

    This is going to be one of their biggest challenges - How does one define "feels different"? Example; Higher weapon speed but lower damage versus lower weapon speed but higher damage - Near equal DPS but a "different feel"?

    Will there be a racial specialization in two-handed weapons versus another races' one-handed and shield specialization? Can a race that has a bow specialization serve the same role as either of the two previously mentioned? Again; same role, different feel?

    And as posted above - How does this take into account "meta" builds?

    There will be much to be fine tuned during testing.
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