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Controller Compatibility
Iridisus
Member
I searched around for topics related to this, and I haven't found any open discussions about it, so I apologize if I'm harping on something already well discussed.
I was actually just watching the "Alpha One Early Preview" from a few days ago, and something was said to the effect of wanting to hear feedback early so features can be implemented without rush near the end of the project. Well that comment encouraged me to come here and genuinely request consideration for controller compatibility.
A lot of folks who play MMOs on PC often don't understand the want to play with a controller, and often times it gets ignored because those people don't understand a controller's place in that environment. However, there are so many games these days with keyboard/mouse & controller options built in that it's exclusive to not have them both available. Giving your players options is just never a bad thing. Having AoC be playable with controller would open you up to including that many more players who prefer controller play, and there are plenty of games to look to for mapping and customization inspiration. FFXIV, by the way, is an amazing example.
Anywho, is there already a discussion about this I should be joining? is there anyone else here who would like to see AoC compatible to play with controller? Any thoughts or concerns in adding this as a feature to the game? What are some games you've seen implement and integrate controllers well, and why do you like how they went about it?
I was actually just watching the "Alpha One Early Preview" from a few days ago, and something was said to the effect of wanting to hear feedback early so features can be implemented without rush near the end of the project. Well that comment encouraged me to come here and genuinely request consideration for controller compatibility.
A lot of folks who play MMOs on PC often don't understand the want to play with a controller, and often times it gets ignored because those people don't understand a controller's place in that environment. However, there are so many games these days with keyboard/mouse & controller options built in that it's exclusive to not have them both available. Giving your players options is just never a bad thing. Having AoC be playable with controller would open you up to including that many more players who prefer controller play, and there are plenty of games to look to for mapping and customization inspiration. FFXIV, by the way, is an amazing example.
Anywho, is there already a discussion about this I should be joining? is there anyone else here who would like to see AoC compatible to play with controller? Any thoughts or concerns in adding this as a feature to the game? What are some games you've seen implement and integrate controllers well, and why do you like how they went about it?
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However, its a UE4 game so you can map it to a controller pretty easily. For a while I had APOC mapped to a controller.
I would really like to see it internally a part of the game, though. I think it makes a huge difference including it from the get go as a part of the function of the game compared to leaving it up to your players to make it work. Plus adding it into the system of the game shows your players you want to include everyone you can and put forth that bit of effort for everyone's enjoyability.
The best layouts I've seen are those where the keyboard is still active at the same time as the controller. So when you want to jump to chat, you just start typing. Not a big deal. Also, some people don't even participate in in-game chat all that much, controller or no. There are also little keyboard attachments for controllers that people use for chats all the time. I'm ridiculously slow with those xD
As for not having enough buttons, it's all about the mapping. I brought up FFXIV as an example before because with their layout, you can actually fit a couple quick slots more that you can on a keyboard. It's a neat setup. You can change which hotbar you're pulling from by different combinations of buttons, and when you're used to playing with controllers, it becomes very smooth, easy, and fast. They also made it wonderfully customizable, so two people playing with controllers can have rather different setups based on personal preferences. I mean, they're just one example of a great use of space.
When you have so few buttons, as you pointed out, you definitely need to get creative. However, it's 100% viable if done well and given the consideration it deserves, and there are a million ways to go about it.
12-16 some even more then that
Okay, so 12 is definitely not enough and with 16 you could barely survive.. Depends a lot what will be the final number of buttons in use.
If it is supported in game, players using a controller would have a valid reason to complain to Intrepid if there are things they can't do with a controller that can be done with mouse and keyboard. I mean, if Intrepid support play with a controller, they need to fully support play with a controller.
Now, I don't see how a player with a controller would be able to run in one direction, while still using an AoE ability that needs to be aimed in a different direction.
With a mouse and keyboard, this kind of thing is easy. I may be missing something here, but I've yet to see a controller system where you can (easily) target anything other than what is directly in front of you, or what you have as your target (in terms of tab target).
Maybe I'm missing something here, as I don't play games with a controller, but if this is not possible to do with a controller, then Intrepid shouldn't implement controller compatibility in to the game, leaving those wanting to play it with a controller to do so in UE4, leaving them kind of unable to complain about anything they can't do with their setup.
On the other hand, if this does turn out to be fairly easy to implement with fairly fine control, then I don't initially see any reason to not support controller compatibility.
That said, I do pity any player trying to play the tab target aspects of the game to their fullest with a controller - I usually have 18 shortcuts dedicated to just targeting in games that allow for it.
Well I was more interested how much buttons you have in your controller?
Squere Enix has a good amount of experience from controllers because of long history with consol games, so for them adding option to play with controller is also very natural solution.
Agreed. There should definitely never ever be compromises made to the game to accommodate controller play. Ever. And they don't need to be made. The success of incorporating controllers into an MMO without changing vision, function, or anything else, and still making it capable of everything the keyboard can do has been done. It's been done. This isn't something new, and I won't deny it's a bit of a puzzle to figure out. And that's why I'm suggesting to think about it and consider it now while it's still plenty early in development. Look at games that have had success with it. Don't decide to add it way later down the road and do a terrible and rushed job, because, yes...that will undoubtedly lead to many complaints.
I completely understand the targeting concern, for sure. Again, FFXIV being a great example here, tab targeting worked out surprisingly well for them. They hooked it to the Dpad. Made up+down be party/teammates and left+right are enemies. Really what makes it work so well is the customization options behind it. You may only have the Dpad to cycle through targets, but you can make it behave anyway you want depending on your situation. You can have it set to only cycle through different types of npcs depending if you're in or out of battle or have your weapon sheathed or drawn. You can make your party list organize a certain way all the time, so you know one tap down is always going to set you on your tank. That kind of thing. I was blown away at what they did with controllers in that game. Still am.
Targeting enemies and/or allies isn't actually my biggest concern with controller compatibility though - it is targeting abilities that don't use tab targeting.
With a mouse, this is easy. You simply click where you want the ability to be centered. With a controller though, I don't see how this could happen, as there is no way to quickly move a cursor or equivalent quickly, while still having fine control.
I thought about a secondary stick to target them with, but the level of both speed and accuracy that would give would be significantly sub-standard.
One way you can do it is to base it on camera angle. Its been a while but I believe smite does this, so to drop an aimed aoe on you you aim down, but to put it farther you aim more towards the horizon.
That would be too restrictive.
You would be dedicating where your character is and which way they are facing, as well as the angle the camera is on, all just to aiming an ability - whereas with a mouse and keyboard setup, none of those things need to be dedicated, you just move your cursor to where you want the ability centered.
There are several ways to do target an AoE with a conteoller, but there are no ways that I can think of or have ever seen to do it as well (fast, accurate, independent) as can be done with a mouse and keyboard setup.
If it can't be done to the same level, on my opinion it shouldn't be done.
You wouldn't be using a controller from what I gather, so why would it matter that others are playing in a more restricted way? Sorry if its coming off as aggressive, but this sounds to me like the same argument I've seen people make for not wanting splitscreen in the pc version of halo because they wouldn't like splitscreen on a small monitor and ignoring the fact some people play on large format displays.
What I am saying is that unless they can make everything work in game with a controller as well as it does with a mouse and keyboard, they are better off not officially supporting controllers with the game, but leaving players to make use of UE4's inbuilt ability to handle controllers if they set it up themselves.
I would say it does not matter unless controller users are fine with the situation.
I'm disagree that it would fail. Another example is gw2 with its action camera setting, it handles aimed aoe this way.
And people using controllers there are at a distinct disadvantage. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm saying it can't be done without controller players being at a disadvantage.
I would not be happy with that level, as I said earlier, if a player with a controller is at a disadvantage, Intrepid should not support it but rather leave players to map their own controller within UE4, which would net the same results. Nope.
I've never allowed players with controllers on my raids.
I'm a big fan of letting people play the way they want to play, and so for that reason, and that reason only, if someone wants to play with a controller, that's their problem.
However, if someone is purposely reducing their in game effectiveness on putpose by using a controller, I won't put the time in to trying to turn then in to effective raiders, and won't waste the time of the rest of my raid by taking them along.
If a player can't look directly at me and cast an AoE 60° to their side, without having to turn their character, they are of no use to me.
Nope, I am sure a lot of people would agree. Especially since at least 25% of your abilities are action.
AOEs are currently considered an action ability. There’s no reason it couldn’t have options to have cast location based on camera angle. It’s just as fast or faster to glance to the side to cast an AOE than to cast and click toward the side of your screen. You wouldn’t even notice the difference.
Playing with a game pad, if supported by the developer, is just as effective as mouse and keyboard. For many, they play better because it’s a more natural fit and more comfortable than using mouse and keyboard.
Excluding someone for using a game pad sounds just as dumb as excluding someone for not using an MMO mouse.
Rangers are a good example here. More than any class, they usually have the ability to use abilities while on the run. If using a controller with a system where you turn your camera to aim, that ranger is now running at his target rather than runnig past it while casting an AoE.
Because of this, if I had a Ranger in my raid that used a controller, I simply would not be able to assign them specific tasks that the raid may call for that I would happily assign to a Ranger using a mouse and keyboard.
Unless there is a way to eminiate any discrepancy, it is not in Intrepids best interest to support controllers in game. Not supporting controllers won't stop people with controllers using them, as it is really easy to set a controller up yourself.
The difference is, if Intrepid support controllers, players using them should be able to expect to not be at a disadvantage for using them. Now, if Intrepid find a way to do that (aiming the camera to aim AoE's is not the answer), then thats great, support them. If they can't find a way to make that happen, don't support them.
Some people do prefer a controller, this is true. However, that is due to them having played with a controller more than anything else. If those players put the time in to getting used to mouse and keyboard, they wouldn't go back to controllers (they wouldn't go back to console gaming).
All you need to look at to understand this point are the reaults from online games that have mixed PC and console players. They have ALL either had to restrict PC player character maneuvering speed, or PC players have decimated other players.
There are no exceptions to this, and I am including games where developers have allowed foor mix platform, and where PC players found their own way on.
With other MMOs, I wonder if there really would be many players looking for controller support other than that subset of FFXIV players.