MeowsedMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
The only reason it would really be worth it is if the game intended to support consoles. There are a significant amount of console players who enjoy MMOs, and they would use a controller of course. But there aren't enough PC MMO players who prefer controller, so there's not much point for Intrepid to support them.
But yeah, it is technically possible. So here's a bunch of rambling that is unnecessary because Ashes won't be on consoles:
The only unsolvable issue with controllers, is that you can't target an arbitrary point in an instant. It always takes longer to move a cursor/camera with a velocity-based joystick than it does with a position-based mouse. But really, the difference is incredibly tiny when it comes to MMOs. You almost never need to react to something and move your reticle to target an arbitrary spot in less than a second. Normally, you can just tab-target, or just pre-position your camera before you need to cast. And in the rare case where only a mouse would be quick enough, chances are you could have just picked a different tactic that works just as well.
The level of quick, wide-range precision that mice offer, is only necessary in shooting games and top-tier RTS competition. And MAYBE top-tier raids in with specific builds, where you need to throw AoEs in random spots, without any time to pre-position. (That's a lot of conditionals, ain't it?) Any problems that a controller might have outside of those situations can be designed around by the game/software devs or prepared for by the player.
As people have alluded to, most of the difficulties can be solved with the following set-up: D-Pad for tab target. Possibly a button for focus-target. Movement on the left stick, entirely separate from the camera on the right-stick (reticle/cursor in the center). Triggers used as modifier-keys to select separate hotbars + different buttons (or combos) for each hotkey.
And I say all of this, despite being a K+M user for my entire life (the only console I've owned is a Wii). I am completely worthless with a controller in my hands, but it's not hard to see how it could work. And I've seen people in FFXIV doing high-end raids with a controller and no problem; I've even co-healed with someone who uses a controller. (To be fair though, most classes are entirely tab-targeted, so free-targeting isn't really an issue in that game.)
Mega troll fr
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
It still feels wrong to me
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
The level of quick, wide-range precision that mice offer, is only necessary in shooting games and top-tier RTS competition. And MAYBE top-tier raids in with specific builds, where you need to throw AoEs in random spots, without any time to pre-position.
I agree with most of what you've said, except for this part.
Taking longer to aim an AoE ability or accurately pan your camera (the other major thing I can see being an issue) would have an impact on PvE raiding, with out a doubt. This is why I have always prevented players using controllers from raiding (the one time I had someone on a raid wanting to use a controller, I challenged them to use a mouse and keyboard for a month - they never looked back).
However, it will be a bigger disadvantage in PvP than in PvE. In PvP, if your opponent knows you are using a controller, they will be able to use that against you. Unless Intrepid purposefully restrict character movement, you will have less control over your character when a controller than you have with a mouse and keyboard. This is simply due to the fact that a controller offers fewer options, with less precise control input - that is an issue that simply can't be overcome without limiting the ability of all players to control their character to match that of a controller.
I am not saying the game shouldn't allow controllers. In fact, even if the developers tried to do this, it would fail.
What I am saying is that unless they can make everything work in game with a controller as well as it does with a mouse and keyboard, they are better off not officially supporting controllers with the game, but leaving players to make use of UE4's inbuilt ability to handle controllers if they set it up themselves.
I'm disagree that it would fail. Another example is gw2 with its action camera setting, it handles aimed aoe this way.
And people using controllers there are at a distinct disadvantage. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm saying it can't be done without controller players being at a disadvantage.
I would not be happy with that level, as I said earlier, if a player with a controller is at a disadvantage, Intrepid should not support it but rather leave players to map their own controller within UE4, which would net the same results.
Am I the only one who feels its physical wrong to play an MMO with a controller?
Nope.
I've never allowed players with controllers on my raids.
I'm a big fan of letting people play the way they want to play, and so for that reason, and that reason only, if someone wants to play with a controller, that's their problem.
However, if someone is purposely reducing their in game effectiveness on putpose by using a controller, I won't put the time in to trying to turn then in to effective raiders, and won't waste the time of the rest of my raid by taking them along.
If a player can't look directly at me and cast an AoE 60° to their side, without having to turn their character, they are of no use to me.
AOEs are currently considered an action ability. There’s no reason it couldn’t have options to have cast location based on camera angle. It’s just as fast or faster to glance to the side to cast an AOE than to cast and click toward the side of your screen. You wouldn’t even notice the difference.
It is noticable, *especially* in a raid setting.
Rangers are a good example here. More than any class, they usually have the ability to use abilities while on the run. If using a controller with a system where you turn your camera to aim, that ranger is now running at his target rather than runnig past it while casting an AoE.
Except there literally nothing stopping a player from using action stance where camera and directional movement are separate. There’s a ton of games that work that way. Any shooter for instance. Any action RPG. It’s already shown it works fine.
Rangers are a good example here. More than any class, they usually have the ability to use abilities while on the run. If using a controller with a system where you turn your camera to aim, that ranger is now running at his target rather than runnig past it while casting an AoE.
If they were that serious about raiding theyd have one joystick move the character while the other would control the camera. I had a buddy that for whatever reason hated playing mouse and keyboard, so for SWTOR, he mapped out an xbox controller with xpadder, and was routinely top dps of his raids. Could he have done even more on mouse and keyboard? Probably. But it was how he was most comfortable, which i think is the most important thing. I'd agree though that there are more than enough tools for people to set up controller layouts that they like, and IS shouldn't stop them from doing so, but should have it supported in the actual game either.
It's kind of silly saying "this game supports controllers well", or "this genre doesn't have a disadvantage for players using a controller", as if a game or a genre supports controller play to the point where it is as effective as a mouse and keyboard, the developers have simply limited what can be done with a mouse and keyboard.
Except there literally nothing stopping a player from using action stance where camera and directional movement are separate. There’s a ton of games that work that way. Any shooter for instance. Any action RPG. It’s already shown it works fine.
Most games that I've played have character movement and camera control separate.
It isn't that it doesn't work - that was never a point I have tried to make. My point is that it is slower and less accurate with a controller than with a mouse.
In games with camera control separate from character control, I can spin my mouse around 180° in about a quarter of a second, accurately. That simply can not be done with a controller at the same speed with the same accuracy.
And lets not even talk about being able to run in a specific direction, pan the camera to take stock of the situation you are in, while at the same time cycling through potential targets. This is actually easy with a keyboard and mouse(W + repeat pressing tab, and using the mouse to look), yet actually impossible with a controller (D-pad and both joysticks, simultaneously, and all in different directions).
Rangers are a good example here. More than any class, they usually have the ability to use abilities while on the run. If using a controller with a system where you turn your camera to aim, that ranger is now running at his target rather than runnig past it while casting an AoE.
Could he have done even more on mouse and keyboard? Probably.
This is why I have always said people in my raids should use a mouse and keyboard.
I've never said it isn't possible to play with a controller, nor have I said it shouldn't be possible.
If it were not for the fact that it is easy to set UE4 up to use a controller, my opinion here may be different. However, since it is easy to set up, players wanting to use a controller will be able to do so. I am not saying players shouldn't be able to use a controller if they wish, that would be an odd thing for me to say considering my opinion on basically everything else is that players should be free to make their own decisions.
All I have said is that players playing with a controller are at a disadvantage to players playing with a mouse and keyboard, and unless that disadvantage can be overcome in a manner that doesn't simply limit what a player with a mouse and keyboard can do (which is what many games to to allow players with a controller to be competitive), then I don't personally think it would be a good idea for Intrepid to support controllers in game.
Im just gonna say one thing:
One of my raiders managed to play his Mage in WoW on a Racingwheel.
I'm fairly sure it would be possible for a single player in a competent guild to participate in a guild raid in WoW with a reasonable amount of success using the controller from an Atari 2600 (you know, the joystick with a single red button).
@Nagash both! @noaani we should also never forget the time, where a hunter in WoW could bind all his abilities to his mousewheel and just had to scroll down to play a good beastmaster hunter in Burning Crusade
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AtamaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Neverwinter Online worked great for me on a controller, including the ability to place AoEs.
On the other hand, that was on an Xbox, so it was designed from the start to work well with a controller. And everyone had to use a controller so it was an even playing field. The success in that MMO may not translate to a PC MMO like Ashes.
By the way, I remember when we were practicing over and over in my guild to beat Sindragosa in WoW (the second-to-last raid boss in Wrath of the Lich King). One of our guildies consistently failed to get into cover in time and in that fight losing just one person could torpedo the whole fight. We didn’t get on his case but rather had a chat with him to figure out why he was having problems moving quickly enough.
During the course of the discussion we figured out that he was using the arrow keys on his keyboard to move around. He never used the mouse to turn, and apparently he had always played MMOs that way. We gamed with him for years in different games and we never knew that is how he played. He was literally a keyboard turner, which up until that point I’d only known as an insult. I’d never known a person who actually did it. Anyway, he learned to use the mouse and no longer had a problem.
I don’t think using a controller is nearly that bad but just the same, it might be the difference between someone raid ending in a wipe or a success if the delay is enough to cause you to not be able to do something critical fast enough. If the only problem is a little bit of delay dropping an AoE though, that seems like a nitpick. And the one thing about AoE abilities is that aiming isn’t always that important. You know what they say, close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Hand grenades are AoE too!
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unknownsystemerrorMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
While there are a few outliers, most mmos that have released in the last 5 years have controller options. Your personal preference whims will not change the fact that controller support for Ashes is coming and that people will use it. It isn't hard for them to do. Just like many other things in Ashes that there will be options for, if you choose not to use them, then don't.
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RexEasilyMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I always found it strange wanting to play an mmorpg with a controller. Surely there aren't enough buttons on a controller for all the skills in an mmorpg. Plus how are you supposed to type in the chat?
actually i play ffxiv at times with a controller and it works very well. typing is a challenge but aside from that ffxiv has WAY WAY more options to use on screen the it looks like ashes will and a controller works with that game.
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H8edHeroMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I have only been on the forums a few times and nearly every time is to check on this feature. I would love to see controller support as would countless others. This day and age I dont really see a good argument for any game to not support both. This development team is already proving the traditional MMO limitations or stigmas are gone. One of my favorite MMOs that supports both has an entirely different UI that becomes present when a gamepad is detected and they put it together at the end of development. Not only was it at the end of the development but some features of it are actually better than the KB and Mouse UI.
All we can do is hope that somewhere in the launch budget this can be done, and it is looked upon as a feature necessary for player attraction and growth. IMO nothing I have seen thus far of the UI or combat says its too complicated for gampad.
I've mapped up to like 80 buttons to a ps3 controller before. It's not really a matter of the buttons, but how the targeting works. It will still require a keyboard no matter what either way.
In some MMO's I have used a controller strictly for movement and jump or strafing in one hand and the mouse for aiming and power selection in the other. However some games are designed in such a way it cant be used well together. Work around are required, unfortunately some people need a controller because they cant work the Keyboard easily due to some injury or medical condition. For the most part, for myself I use the Keyboard and mouse for free aim action but if it is tabbed targeting I can still see the game pad as an option for movement.
Many years ago I came across a player who was an excellent Pvp Mage in WoW, he was a quadriplegic who had re worked a game pad to sit under his chin along with a series of tubes he would blow into to trigger his powers.
Please please PLEASE do NOT make controller support just an AFTER THOUGHT.
and please do not tell me controller support isn't worth implementing just because it's not a thing the majority of people care about, or that it somehow has anything to do with only relating to console support. It has absolutely nothing to do with console support, and it is SUCH a trivially easy thing to implement. The fact that it can be argued it's inferior is also COMPLETELY irrelevant from the question of whether or not implementation is worth considering.
The #1 reason I insist on using a controller to play an MMO is that it is MORE COMFORTABLE, and with an MMO where you want to be playing for incredibly long periods of time the comfort factor is absolutely THE most important thing. If a game isn't comfortable to play, you won't want to play it for long periods of time.
#2 is just how natural and fluid and effortless the dual analog stick combination feels to control a character and the camera running around in a 3d environment with a 3rd person perspective. Most especially with controlling the camera, it feels sooooo much less clunky than using whatever mouse or keyboard button implementation.
I and I know MANY OTHER PEOPLE come from a background of playing Final Fantasy XI (and 14) and I absolutely REFUSE to play any MMO that won't support a controller. I don't want to feel like I'm at a job hunching over a keyboard and mouse all day, I want to be able to kick back and relax and just play the game.
And yes I still always used a keyboard for typing when I need to, and yes THEORETICALLY you can kick back and relax just as easily with a mouse and keyboard, but controllers are literally DESIGNED to be the most comfortable, intuitive, and least effort things to interact with games and a computer. Hunching over a traditional keyboard and mouse setup requires the exertion of your entire body to an extent, while a controller is designed to be used only exertion of your hands and fingers.
Other reasons controller support is an absolute no brainer in an MMO I would say:
90+% of the time is spent in town and/or traversing from point A to point B and you aren't actually fighting or doing something where the "objective inferiority" of using a controller matters AT ALL. All that matters in that 90+% of your time is how COMFORTABLE it is to use and play the game.
And the MMO battle mechanics never warrant split-second pin-point accuracy reactions, the thing where mouse/keyboard is obviously far superior at (FPS games), but this is NOT an FPS game, and I can't imagine any type of mechanic in an MMO like this's battle system that should be significantly inferior to pull off than with a keyboard/mouse.
One thing I say to people who would laugh at the idea of people using a controller to play MMOs is: Come on, would you want to play a PLATFORMER game with keyboard and mouse??? I mean, isn't that like 99.999% of the game, just running around from place to place in the 3d environment... you know... like a PLATFORMER???
Are you saying I brought this thread back to life and I shouldn't have done that?
I didn't know whether I should post here or make a new discussion, I wanted to make a new discussion, but I saw this thread already existed and seem to be the largest controller support discussion thread.
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Are you saying I brought this thread back to life and I shouldn't have done that?
I didn't know whether I should post here or make a new discussion, I wanted to make a new discussion, but I saw this thread already existed and seem to be the largest controller support discussion thread.
Oh no necro threads are great it mean you used search
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
I searched around for topics related to this, and I haven't found any open discussions about it, so I apologize if I'm harping on something already well discussed.
I was actually just watching the "Alpha One Early Preview" from a few days ago, and something was said to the effect of wanting to hear feedback early so features can be implemented without rush near the end of the project. Well that comment encouraged me to come here and genuinely request consideration for controller compatibility.
A lot of folks who play MMOs on PC often don't understand the want to play with a controller, and often times it gets ignored because those people don't understand a controller's place in that environment. However, there are so many games these days with keyboard/mouse & controller options built in that it's exclusive to not have them both available. Giving your players options is just never a bad thing. Having AoC be playable with controller would open you up to including that many more players who prefer controller play, and there are plenty of games to look to for mapping and customization inspiration. FFXIV, by the way, is an amazing example.
Anywho, is there already a discussion about this I should be joining? is there anyone else here who would like to see AoC compatible to play with controller? Any thoughts or concerns in adding this as a feature to the game? What are some games you've seen implement and integrate controllers well, and why do you like how they went about it?
Yes I would love this because I love mmos and I just recently got back into wow. However, for some reason, recently my left hand has been hurting and cramping up whenever I play on a keyboard. But when I play with a controller it's fine.
I always found it strange wanting to play an mmorpg with a controller. Surely there aren't enough buttons on a controller for all the skills in an mmorpg. Plus how are you supposed to type in the chat?
For some people, playing with a controller is much more comfortable than using a keyboard. I'm one of those ppl.
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AtamaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
For a game that strives to mix in action combat it would be a good idea to try to support controller usage in a way that a player can be competitive in PvP.
Having good combat, good character customization and the ability to play on a gamepad are huge for me when playing games in the 3rd person perspective. I have a preference for action combat in the games that I play (Monster Hunter, Sekiro, and fighting games to name a few). I also have very little experience or interest in the MMO genre and have played less than about 50 hours of ESO, Guild Wars 2, and Bless Unleashed combined. I didn't like ESO's combat and Bless Unleashed was very limited in character creation with their classes locked behind races while also having some janky animations/presentation. It also contains P2W elements which most can agree is bad. GW2 on mouse and keyboard was not for me. Call me picky...
Ashes caught my eye for the MMO genre because of its node system, robust character customization and their modern graphical fidelity. I'm willing to remove my bias towards gamepads to play this but so far, their combat is what concerns me the most. I've been on the side towards improving the action combat elements in Intrepid's forums (Username: Ugoogee) and may be contributing to the vocal minority, which is your recent livestream I'll be watching after commenting btw. Feel free to go through my forum posts, but to summarize my main point from there is: have the player as well as the enemies be dynamic in their movements and attack animations that complement each other. Which means don't have enemies play an attack animation while rotating in place only for it to be interrupted because the player is out of range which causes them to walk towards the player and repeat the cycle once in range again, and that goes for the players too. However, I'm willing to see Intrepid's progress on the matter.
Immediately ArcheAge 2's teaser trailer grabbed my attention for a potential MMO to play because of their action combat, visual fidelity and the ability to play on PC with a gamepad because of console releases. Their combat design is exactly what I'm looking for in a 3rd person action combat game. The Dragon lunges forward with a swiping claw attack while the player dodges and strikes back with a jumping spinning sword slash of their own. An Ogre stepping forward while doing a big overhead swing only for it to be executed by a player charging forward with a well-timed parry. That's the stuff that gets me going! I don't see that in Ashes, and now I fall into that demographic which you stated they could possibly lose because of competition in the genre that gets exacerbated over time, which I do feel kinda bad for being in because I still wish Intrepid the best for their game.
I could go on but I'm willing to know more people's thoughts. Great video and Happy Holidays!
I too would like controller support. Being that we have quite a few mmos coming out in the next few yrs on console, there will b alot of options for those who prefer a controller of some sort.
Comments
But yeah, it is technically possible. So here's a bunch of rambling that is unnecessary because Ashes won't be on consoles:
The level of quick, wide-range precision that mice offer, is only necessary in shooting games and top-tier RTS competition. And MAYBE top-tier raids in with specific builds, where you need to throw AoEs in random spots, without any time to pre-position. (That's a lot of conditionals, ain't it?) Any problems that a controller might have outside of those situations can be designed around by the game/software devs or prepared for by the player.
As people have alluded to, most of the difficulties can be solved with the following set-up: D-Pad for tab target. Possibly a button for focus-target. Movement on the left stick, entirely separate from the camera on the right-stick (reticle/cursor in the center). Triggers used as modifier-keys to select separate hotbars + different buttons (or combos) for each hotkey.
And I say all of this, despite being a K+M user for my entire life (the only console I've owned is a Wii). I am completely worthless with a controller in my hands, but it's not hard to see how it could work. And I've seen people in FFXIV doing high-end raids with a controller and no problem; I've even co-healed with someone who uses a controller. (To be fair though, most classes are entirely tab-targeted, so free-targeting isn't really an issue in that game.)
Taking longer to aim an AoE ability or accurately pan your camera (the other major thing I can see being an issue) would have an impact on PvE raiding, with out a doubt. This is why I have always prevented players using controllers from raiding (the one time I had someone on a raid wanting to use a controller, I challenged them to use a mouse and keyboard for a month - they never looked back).
However, it will be a bigger disadvantage in PvP than in PvE. In PvP, if your opponent knows you are using a controller, they will be able to use that against you. Unless Intrepid purposefully restrict character movement, you will have less control over your character when a controller than you have with a mouse and keyboard. This is simply due to the fact that a controller offers fewer options, with less precise control input - that is an issue that simply can't be overcome without limiting the ability of all players to control their character to match that of a controller.
Except there literally nothing stopping a player from using action stance where camera and directional movement are separate. There’s a ton of games that work that way. Any shooter for instance. Any action RPG. It’s already shown it works fine.
If they were that serious about raiding theyd have one joystick move the character while the other would control the camera. I had a buddy that for whatever reason hated playing mouse and keyboard, so for SWTOR, he mapped out an xbox controller with xpadder, and was routinely top dps of his raids. Could he have done even more on mouse and keyboard? Probably. But it was how he was most comfortable, which i think is the most important thing. I'd agree though that there are more than enough tools for people to set up controller layouts that they like, and IS shouldn't stop them from doing so, but should have it supported in the actual game either.
One of my raiders managed to play his Mage in WoW on a Racingwheel.
I'm not sure if I should be impressed or horrified
Most games that I've played have character movement and camera control separate.
It isn't that it doesn't work - that was never a point I have tried to make. My point is that it is slower and less accurate with a controller than with a mouse.
In games with camera control separate from character control, I can spin my mouse around 180° in about a quarter of a second, accurately. That simply can not be done with a controller at the same speed with the same accuracy.
And lets not even talk about being able to run in a specific direction, pan the camera to take stock of the situation you are in, while at the same time cycling through potential targets. This is actually easy with a keyboard and mouse(W + repeat pressing tab, and using the mouse to look), yet actually impossible with a controller (D-pad and both joysticks, simultaneously, and all in different directions).
This is why I have always said people in my raids should use a mouse and keyboard.
I've never said it isn't possible to play with a controller, nor have I said it shouldn't be possible.
If it were not for the fact that it is easy to set UE4 up to use a controller, my opinion here may be different. However, since it is easy to set up, players wanting to use a controller will be able to do so. I am not saying players shouldn't be able to use a controller if they wish, that would be an odd thing for me to say considering my opinion on basically everything else is that players should be free to make their own decisions.
All I have said is that players playing with a controller are at a disadvantage to players playing with a mouse and keyboard, and unless that disadvantage can be overcome in a manner that doesn't simply limit what a player with a mouse and keyboard can do (which is what many games to to allow players with a controller to be competitive), then I don't personally think it would be a good idea for Intrepid to support controllers in game.
I'm fairly sure it would be possible for a single player in a competent guild to participate in a guild raid in WoW with a reasonable amount of success using the controller from an Atari 2600 (you know, the joystick with a single red button).
@noaani we should also never forget the time, where a hunter in WoW could bind all his abilities to his mousewheel and just had to scroll down to play a good beastmaster hunter in Burning Crusade
On the other hand, that was on an Xbox, so it was designed from the start to work well with a controller. And everyone had to use a controller so it was an even playing field. The success in that MMO may not translate to a PC MMO like Ashes.
By the way, I remember when we were practicing over and over in my guild to beat Sindragosa in WoW (the second-to-last raid boss in Wrath of the Lich King). One of our guildies consistently failed to get into cover in time and in that fight losing just one person could torpedo the whole fight. We didn’t get on his case but rather had a chat with him to figure out why he was having problems moving quickly enough.
During the course of the discussion we figured out that he was using the arrow keys on his keyboard to move around. He never used the mouse to turn, and apparently he had always played MMOs that way. We gamed with him for years in different games and we never knew that is how he played. He was literally a keyboard turner, which up until that point I’d only known as an insult. I’d never known a person who actually did it. Anyway, he learned to use the mouse and no longer had a problem.
I don’t think using a controller is nearly that bad but just the same, it might be the difference between someone raid ending in a wipe or a success if the delay is enough to cause you to not be able to do something critical fast enough. If the only problem is a little bit of delay dropping an AoE though, that seems like a nitpick. And the one thing about AoE abilities is that aiming isn’t always that important. You know what they say, close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Hand grenades are AoE too!
actually i play ffxiv at times with a controller and it works very well. typing is a challenge but aside from that ffxiv has WAY WAY more options to use on screen the it looks like ashes will and a controller works with that game.
All we can do is hope that somewhere in the launch budget this can be done, and it is looked upon as a feature necessary for player attraction and growth. IMO nothing I have seen thus far of the UI or combat says its too complicated for gampad.
U.S. East
Many years ago I came across a player who was an excellent Pvp Mage in WoW, he was a quadriplegic who had re worked a game pad to sit under his chin along with a series of tubes he would blow into to trigger his powers.
and please do not tell me controller support isn't worth implementing just because it's not a thing the majority of people care about, or that it somehow has anything to do with only relating to console support. It has absolutely nothing to do with console support, and it is SUCH a trivially easy thing to implement. The fact that it can be argued it's inferior is also COMPLETELY irrelevant from the question of whether or not implementation is worth considering.
The #1 reason I insist on using a controller to play an MMO is that it is MORE COMFORTABLE, and with an MMO where you want to be playing for incredibly long periods of time the comfort factor is absolutely THE most important thing. If a game isn't comfortable to play, you won't want to play it for long periods of time.
#2 is just how natural and fluid and effortless the dual analog stick combination feels to control a character and the camera running around in a 3d environment with a 3rd person perspective. Most especially with controlling the camera, it feels sooooo much less clunky than using whatever mouse or keyboard button implementation.
I and I know MANY OTHER PEOPLE come from a background of playing Final Fantasy XI (and 14) and I absolutely REFUSE to play any MMO that won't support a controller. I don't want to feel like I'm at a job hunching over a keyboard and mouse all day, I want to be able to kick back and relax and just play the game.
And yes I still always used a keyboard for typing when I need to, and yes THEORETICALLY you can kick back and relax just as easily with a mouse and keyboard, but controllers are literally DESIGNED to be the most comfortable, intuitive, and least effort things to interact with games and a computer. Hunching over a traditional keyboard and mouse setup requires the exertion of your entire body to an extent, while a controller is designed to be used only exertion of your hands and fingers.
Other reasons controller support is an absolute no brainer in an MMO I would say:
90+% of the time is spent in town and/or traversing from point A to point B and you aren't actually fighting or doing something where the "objective inferiority" of using a controller matters AT ALL. All that matters in that 90+% of your time is how COMFORTABLE it is to use and play the game.
And the MMO battle mechanics never warrant split-second pin-point accuracy reactions, the thing where mouse/keyboard is obviously far superior at (FPS games), but this is NOT an FPS game, and I can't imagine any type of mechanic in an MMO like this's battle system that should be significantly inferior to pull off than with a keyboard/mouse.
One thing I say to people who would laugh at the idea of people using a controller to play MMOs is: Come on, would you want to play a PLATFORMER game with keyboard and mouse??? I mean, isn't that like 99.999% of the game, just running around from place to place in the 3d environment... you know... like a PLATFORMER???
Are you saying I brought this thread back to life and I shouldn't have done that?
I didn't know whether I should post here or make a new discussion, I wanted to make a new discussion, but I saw this thread already existed and seem to be the largest controller support discussion thread.
Oh no necro threads are great it mean you used search
It makes it far easier to map devices such as the Xbox Adaptive Controller which can allow those who don't have fully functioning hands play the game.
You did good, researching. Was a complement. 😁
Yes I would love this because I love mmos and I just recently got back into wow. However, for some reason, recently my left hand has been hurting and cramping up whenever I play on a keyboard. But when I play with a controller it's fine.
For some people, playing with a controller is much more comfortable than using a keyboard. I'm one of those ppl.
Having good combat, good character customization and the ability to play on a gamepad are huge for me when playing games in the 3rd person perspective. I have a preference for action combat in the games that I play (Monster Hunter, Sekiro, and fighting games to name a few). I also have very little experience or interest in the MMO genre and have played less than about 50 hours of ESO, Guild Wars 2, and Bless Unleashed combined. I didn't like ESO's combat and Bless Unleashed was very limited in character creation with their classes locked behind races while also having some janky animations/presentation. It also contains P2W elements which most can agree is bad. GW2 on mouse and keyboard was not for me. Call me picky...
Ashes caught my eye for the MMO genre because of its node system, robust character customization and their modern graphical fidelity. I'm willing to remove my bias towards gamepads to play this but so far, their combat is what concerns me the most. I've been on the side towards improving the action combat elements in Intrepid's forums (Username: Ugoogee) and may be contributing to the vocal minority, which is your recent livestream I'll be watching after commenting btw. Feel free to go through my forum posts, but to summarize my main point from there is: have the player as well as the enemies be dynamic in their movements and attack animations that complement each other. Which means don't have enemies play an attack animation while rotating in place only for it to be interrupted because the player is out of range which causes them to walk towards the player and repeat the cycle once in range again, and that goes for the players too. However, I'm willing to see Intrepid's progress on the matter.
Immediately ArcheAge 2's teaser trailer grabbed my attention for a potential MMO to play because of their action combat, visual fidelity and the ability to play on PC with a gamepad because of console releases. Their combat design is exactly what I'm looking for in a 3rd person action combat game. The Dragon lunges forward with a swiping claw attack while the player dodges and strikes back with a jumping spinning sword slash of their own. An Ogre stepping forward while doing a big overhead swing only for it to be executed by a player charging forward with a well-timed parry. That's the stuff that gets me going! I don't see that in Ashes, and now I fall into that demographic which you stated they could possibly lose because of competition in the genre that gets exacerbated over time, which I do feel kinda bad for being in because I still wish Intrepid the best for their game.
I could go on but I'm willing to know more people's thoughts. Great video and Happy Holidays!