Never played lineage 2 but how does that system compare to the realm on line if anyone here is that old? I remember perm enchanting swords with each extra having an increased chance to destroy it.
25 years I still remember that and it having instanced player housing.
Haven't played Realm Online but we don't have such detailed information on the system yet to know the answer to that. Hopefully once Alpha 1 starts they'll be able to play with the system and let us all know how it works.
It's a risk vs. reward system. The entire game is based on risk vs. reward. If you take the risk with enchanting... you may be rewarded. Not everyone will be treated the same (or as lucky). Not everyone will get a reward just for participating.
I like the vision that Steven and the AoC devs have for this game.
After playing Black Desert Online and seeing how horrible RNG item enchanting can be, this feature alone may put me off.
I've fine with risk vs reward, but RNG (pure luck of the dice / gambling) isn't fun and is just a huge / massive rage generator.
The amount of rage and people leaving BDO due to the risk/reward enchanting system in BDO, the devs finally added a failsafe system where if you pay a bunch of gold, you can prevent downgrading / item destruction. And of course the items needed for this are in the cash shop.
RNG is 100% gambling, and that isn't a good risk vs reward type system. Please please please please find another way.
Before people start demanding change... we need to see the system in action first.
You're right that it is probably too early to make assumptions, but the earlier they get feedback that RNG/Gambling for equipment progress is a HUGE turnoff for a lot of people, the better.
I watched people put in little effort and get SUPER lucky enchanting and effectively dominated in PvP for months. While others had HORRIBLE luck and spent BILLIONs (big money) and still never achieved the same enchantment level and were always behind in gear.
I'm 100% for risk vs reward, but RNG for character power progression is a very dangerous system and will generate a lot of rage quits.
Equipment = Character power
Leveling up = Character power
How would you feel that depending on how strong of monsters you fought (high risk) during your XP grind you would be granted higher stats at level up than if you played it safe hunting? Everyone would be PISSED! You could recover the lost potential power by taking more risks later, but RNG could still screw you for months. (in this example all players equal out at max level, but along the way, thanks to RNG you may be weaker than your peers if you took less risks and RNG procs screwed you)
Before people start demanding change... we need to see the system in action first.
You're right that it is probably too early to make assumptions, but the earlier they get feedback that RNG/Gambling for equipment progress is a HUGE turnoff for a lot of people, the better.
I watched people put in little effort and get SUPER lucky enchanting and effectively dominated in PvP for months. While others had HORRIBLE luck and spent BILLIONs (big money) and still never achieved the same enchantment level and were always behind in gear.
I'm 100% for risk vs reward, but RNG for character power progression is a very dangerous system and will generate a lot of rage quits.
Equipment = Character power
Leveling up = Character power
How would you feel that depending on how strong of monsters you fought (high risk) during your XP grind you would be granted higher stats at level up than if you played it safe hunting? Everyone would be PISSED! You could recover the lost potential power by taking more risks later, but RNG could still screw you for months. (in this example all players equal out at max level, but along the way, thanks to RNG you may be weaker than your peers if you took less risks and RNG procs screwed you)
Oh yes, I'm all for people presenting their opinions and feedback. Feedback is awesome. I just think we need to be careful on demanding change on systems we have not tested/seen as of yet. The devs have a vision for this game, and I think it's important that they have the opportunity to show us their vision before we go demanding that it be changed.
You are aware that your weapons will be destroyed? You will always need mats, that's why enchanting makes sense.
A +5 sword would be extremely valuable, compared to a +1.
I believe it makes sense. No one is forcing you to risk it. You can have that +1 sword and leave it at that.
Now, if you're greedy and want it +5, commit to the chance of it being destroyed.
Well this again feels like a system straight out of L2 so currently as I understood it works like this:
Enchanting your weapon is done by scrolls
+1 - +3 is a safe zone
anything past +3 will have a 66.7% chance of success. If you fail the weapon will be destroyed and you will be left with some of the crafting materials (30%?). in l2 you got crystals but that's a different system that I'v not seen a referrance to in this game.
It's never been a mandatory to OE gear even in the hardcore world of L2 but it's just shows who has actually sinked time to the game. And let's be honest L2 had maximum enchant of +16 and the chance for that is 0.13% so the most you would normally see is +8-10 which is around 4.5% chance. 90% of the player base had +3. How much would +3 and 8 effect then? +8 or +3 could either win the fight but the +8 would win more if you had 100 fights.
I do not like the "do it once have it for life" kinda enchant system that wow has and i'm not the biggest fan of l2 enchant system even tho it gives nice adrenaline rush because it's so damn punishing. People literally farmed weapons for weeks or months and wanted an upgrade. went for +4 and that weapon was gone. Usually at that point people quit.
To be honest I'm not sure what would be good but neither of these systems are that good in my opinion.
Im fine with either but I still feel "do it once and be done with it" is just pointless and doesn't really add anything to the game. At the end everyone just has the exact same stuff. I was never excited about enchants in wow as it felt like an aftertaught timesink. In l2 it felt like enourmous timesink but at least it didn't come stale and you didn't need to participate in it if u didn't want to.
Many of the systems could be considered "outdated." There is a reason that AOC is swinging back to those outdated systems though. They summarize that as Risk vs Reward.
Many of these systems will also lead to more social interactions, as well as putting a higher premium on top tier enchanters.
Someone may risk 10X as much as someone else and still not get it.
Now they fight on the battle field and the guy who got lucky wins every time with little to no risk while the guy who failed 10X is at greater risk of dieing.
Now you can say well just save up and buy it. Go look at the BDO market place there are no pen ogre rings on the market. If there was one up on the market its undervalued at 70 bil that is roughly 466 hours of grinding as an honest player for one piece of gear that is not even BiS any more. That honest player is put up against people who Bot, Exploit , Hack RMT and people who pay others to play their account to get these items
Real risk vs reward would have the best items make you super powerful but you can drop them if you die.
The player becomes the raid boss. A fight that becomes exciting for Both the underdog and the wielder. As well as make people second guess RMTing for such items.
I'm not 100% against the fail on enchant system. It all depends on the power creep disparity and the % chances. BDO is too extreme for my liking. When you read people complaining about this system this was their experience with it.
Many of the systems could be considered "outdated." There is a reason that AOC is swinging back to those outdated systems though. They summarize that as Risk vs Reward.
Many of these systems will also lead to more social interactions, as well as putting a higher premium on top tier enchanters.
Someone may risk 10X as much as someone else and still not get it.
Now they fight on the battle field and the guy who got lucky wins every time with little to no risk while the guy who failed 10X is at greater risk of dieing.
Now you can say well just save up and buy it. Go look at the BDO market place there are no pen ogre rings on the market. If there was one up on the market its undervalued at 70 bil that is roughly 466 hours of grinding as an honest player for one piece of gear that is not even BiS any more. That honest player is put up against people who Bot, Exploit , Hack RMT and people who pay others to play their account to get these items
Real risk vs reward would have the best items make you super powerful but you can drop them if you die.
The player becomes the raid boss. A fight that becomes exciting for Both the underdog and the wielder. As well as make people second guess RMTing for such items.
I'm not 100% against the fail on enchant system. It all depends on the power creep disparity and the % chances. BDO is too extreme for my liking. When you read people complaining about this system this was their experience with it.
I've played a lot of games with systems like this and they all have the same problems. And in every game the players hated it and just dealt with it because the rest of the game was good, but inevitably people always burn out and quit, or get too pissed with constant gear grind or failure and quit. It's never something that can work.
Comments
Haven't played Realm Online but we don't have such detailed information on the system yet to know the answer to that. Hopefully once Alpha 1 starts they'll be able to play with the system and let us all know how it works.
I like the vision that Steven and the AoC devs have for this game.
I've fine with risk vs reward, but RNG (pure luck of the dice / gambling) isn't fun and is just a huge / massive rage generator.
The amount of rage and people leaving BDO due to the risk/reward enchanting system in BDO, the devs finally added a failsafe system where if you pay a bunch of gold, you can prevent downgrading / item destruction. And of course the items needed for this are in the cash shop.
RNG is 100% gambling, and that isn't a good risk vs reward type system. Please please please please find another way.
You're right that it is probably too early to make assumptions, but the earlier they get feedback that RNG/Gambling for equipment progress is a HUGE turnoff for a lot of people, the better.
I watched people put in little effort and get SUPER lucky enchanting and effectively dominated in PvP for months. While others had HORRIBLE luck and spent BILLIONs (big money) and still never achieved the same enchantment level and were always behind in gear.
I'm 100% for risk vs reward, but RNG for character power progression is a very dangerous system and will generate a lot of rage quits.
Equipment = Character power
Leveling up = Character power
How would you feel that depending on how strong of monsters you fought (high risk) during your XP grind you would be granted higher stats at level up than if you played it safe hunting? Everyone would be PISSED! You could recover the lost potential power by taking more risks later, but RNG could still screw you for months. (in this example all players equal out at max level, but along the way, thanks to RNG you may be weaker than your peers if you took less risks and RNG procs screwed you)
Oh yes, I'm all for people presenting their opinions and feedback. Feedback is awesome.
A +5 sword would be extremely valuable, compared to a +1.
I believe it makes sense. No one is forcing you to risk it. You can have that +1 sword and leave it at that.
Now, if you're greedy and want it +5, commit to the chance of it being destroyed.
Enchanting your weapon is done by scrolls
+1 - +3 is a safe zone
anything past +3 will have a 66.7% chance of success. If you fail the weapon will be destroyed and you will be left with some of the crafting materials (30%?). in l2 you got crystals but that's a different system that I'v not seen a referrance to in this game.
It's never been a mandatory to OE gear even in the hardcore world of L2 but it's just shows who has actually sinked time to the game. And let's be honest L2 had maximum enchant of +16 and the chance for that is 0.13% so the most you would normally see is +8-10 which is around 4.5% chance. 90% of the player base had +3. How much would +3 and 8 effect then? +8 or +3 could either win the fight but the +8 would win more if you had 100 fights.
I do not like the "do it once have it for life" kinda enchant system that wow has and i'm not the biggest fan of l2 enchant system even tho it gives nice adrenaline rush because it's so damn punishing. People literally farmed weapons for weeks or months and wanted an upgrade. went for +4 and that weapon was gone. Usually at that point people quit.
To be honest I'm not sure what would be good but neither of these systems are that good in my opinion.
Im fine with either but I still feel "do it once and be done with it" is just pointless and doesn't really add anything to the game. At the end everyone just has the exact same stuff. I was never excited about enchants in wow as it felt like an aftertaught timesink. In l2 it felt like enourmous timesink but at least it didn't come stale and you didn't need to participate in it if u didn't want to.
Someone may risk 10X as much as someone else and still not get it.
Now they fight on the battle field and the guy who got lucky wins every time with little to no risk while the guy who failed 10X is at greater risk of dieing.
Now you can say well just save up and buy it. Go look at the BDO market place there are no pen ogre rings on the market. If there was one up on the market its undervalued at 70 bil that is roughly 466 hours of grinding as an honest player for one piece of gear that is not even BiS any more. That honest player is put up against people who Bot, Exploit , Hack RMT and people who pay others to play their account to get these items
Real risk vs reward would have the best items make you super powerful but you can drop them if you die.
The player becomes the raid boss. A fight that becomes exciting for Both the underdog and the wielder. As well as make people second guess RMTing for such items.
I'm not 100% against the fail on enchant system. It all depends on the power creep disparity and the % chances. BDO is too extreme for my liking. When you read people complaining about this system this was their experience with it.
I've played a lot of games with systems like this and they all have the same problems. And in every game the players hated it and just dealt with it because the rest of the game was good, but inevitably people always burn out and quit, or get too pissed with constant gear grind or failure and quit. It's never something that can work.