Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
I hope you didnt start playing glady at c4....................
I didn't, why?
I don't think it was nostalgia. He's also taking a lot of inspiration from ArcheAge which he was hardcoring a few short years ago when he created Intrepid Studios, borne directly out of frustrations with that game.
No, no, no. Lineage 2 is an old game and other games have done it better. I remember playing Aion 2009-2011 and having a great time at the fort sieges in the Abyss. Sure you had tons of players but we were organized and had objectives and the competition was great (and you could very much tell if you were winning or losing). Maybe you didn't enjoy how Lineage 2 did it but sieges can be a ton of fun when it's done well (I'll say I don't like how GW2 does WvWvW, so this is a game mode that needs to be designed right but that one is also almost entirely due to issues caused by combat design). This game will have plenty of small scale PvP as well so there'll be something for everyone. I think getting rid of sieges, or trying to make it into some sort of small arena style skirmishes will turn away a lot of people that enjoy being part of a larger, organized force and the epic feeling of it all. Plus it's an important element of gameplay because it allows lesser geared or lesser skilled players to join in, whereas a 3v3 excludes them, or even just those without enough confidence.
At the end of the day if I want small scale PvP, I'm not going to join in on a siege and I'll leave it to those who enjoy that. If I want that, I'll try to get in on it. Plain and simple. I find having a well designed siege system is so, so incredibly important and I do not think trying to make it into a bunch of small skirmishes is a good idea. I think that would be a terrible and incredibly short sighted idea. You have to look at the larger picture and how the siege not only fits into the game, but the offering of gameplay types in the game and people that need to be attracted to this community for everything to work in harmony.
OK, again, please God no. For one thing, I think NPC buffers and profession effects, as well as non-Bard class buffs should be very, very limited. We have Bards, let's fucking celebrate that another game is trying not only do a support class but do it right! Also, they are not a healer or controller, they're a buff/debuff support class. Cleric is the healer and at best, Bards heals are much, much smaller so offer more overall group support healing. So far we know CC's exist among all the classes so I'm not sure there's going to be one in particular that specializes in it and they've said they want to limit CC chains, so having a controller class wouldn't be something they want anyway.
But again just because Lineage 2 did something poorly, doesn't mean it's a bad idea. It just means they did a shit job and let's acknowledge that and move on. They're designing the game for all 8 archetypes to have a spot in a party and further, we have 4-5 roles so far - tank, healer (Cleric), support (Bard), jack of all trades to fill in the gaps in roles in the party as needed (Summoner) and DPS (everyone else).
I'd look again to Aion as an example of a game that did better (it has some similarities to Lineage 2 but is improved in many ways because NCSoft learned their lesson and this was the next MMO they came out with after that). Chanter was the first support class they came out with and later they introduced Songweaver. But Chanter worked really well because most buffs were short term - they only had 2 long term buffs they could apply to individuals and they were HP/Defense buffs so nothing major - and the Cleric had less powerful versions of those anyway. They had mantras which were toggleable PbAoE auras that would buff anyone in range until they were toggled off and could have 3 on at a time among a wide range of buffs to select from. They had 2 short term ~20 second or so buffs for attack/defense. Their attack chains applied short ~3 second debuffs on the target for each skill. And they had larger, more consequential buffs to use in coordination with the team during important moments on ~10 min CDs. They also had small off-healing and DPS capabilities.
The buffs weren't so overpowered that you couldn't have a group without them - you could solo without them (and as I said, only the 2 HP/Defense buffs could even be had without the Chanter in party) and while having a Chanter in party was ideal, they could be replaced with another DPS if need be and you were still fine. Not only were the buffs not overpowered and the Class preferred but not necessary, but the skills themselves required the player to be in the thick of battle, making moment to moment decisions about what was needed when - do I need to change Auras, do I need my 10 min CDs, do I even need this defense 20s buff right now, does the healer need me to use my mana return skill on them, do I need to backup heal or get back in there and dps, etc. It was active and what was best changed depending on the fight, the group makeup, etc. There was no set rotation.
From what I've read on the wiki (and I highly suggest everyone do that) it sounds like they're going in a similar direction with the Bard, here and I think that's the right move to make it both fun, useful, and balanced. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Bard. I feel like you haven't even read that because not only do they quite well describe how different Bard will be here from Lineage 2, there's a quote from Steven where he basically calls out L2 and how badly they did it.
You'll find that's a theme in this game - quotes from Steven calling out how badly other games did various mechanics and how he wants to do it better. Just because he takes inspiration from other games, that doesn't mean he wants to copy those mechanics. In most cases, he wants to improve upon them - that's why he started Intrepid in the first place, is because he felt all those other games he played messed up in a lot of ways.
Enchanting was terrible in every game that has done it so far and I see no reason for it to exist here. Further, it's something that most Western gamers agree they hate with a passion. I'd argue it's a game-breaking issue for many that once the larger audience of this MMO realizes it exists, they're going to either decide to never play AoC, or they'll make a big stink about it (I've already had people tell me that if it makes it in as expected they absolutely will not play).
And to add to that, I dont particular care if crafting is constantly needed. I'm ok with crafters making gear once in a while, occasionally making a second set for someone or fixing durability once in a blue moon or whatever. More MMO's have crafting in that occasional capacity and not a regular necessity that I simply cannot be convinced it's needed for the economy. I have yet to read an argument that explains why we all need to be punished and hate the game every week simply so a few people can live out their crafting dream. It's absurd and economies exist in other games just fine without grinding stuff out every week for it. I'd actually argue enchanting systems and constant grind hurts the economy more than it helps.
I'd be ok with something like using crafting mats to repair durability or something as long as it's nothing more than the mats we'll have in our bags from an average night of gaming. If we have to go out of our way to grind mats, that defeats the purpose of balancing the economy or adding a gold sink - if people don't have the mats or gold to begin with and have to grind for it, its unnecessary.
Let's be real here - the only reason for such enchanting systems in other games is to drive players to P2W cash shops because that was the primary revenue driver for those games. That will not exist here, so why should such an enchanting system exist?
Agreed
Another way to make "risky" system is to do it like DaoC did.
Excuse me for not remembering the correct names.
A crafter could make an item from between 1-100% quality.
a 100% quality had more "enchanting points" available than a a lower % one.
Lets say a 100% one had 100 points available
You could then get stones with stats on them that took up different amount of points which you took to an enchanter.
say a str +5 stone took 50 points, and +5 con stone took 50, that would fill up all those 100 points.
Now, you could try to "overcharge" an item with for example a stone that took 60 points and another with 50 for a total of 110 points. Or you could try going even higher.
You had a lower chance of succeding but it was all your choice, no scrolls invovled, and no "safe" scrolls available.
0dbea148-8cb8-4711-ba90-eb0864e93b5f
Personally I would prefer them in AoC to have healing as a secondary to buffs and debuffs as a primary role.
l2 was a subscription based game
There needs to be some level of RNG in the game. If such an enchanting system doesn't exist, there will be no grind or reason for people to keep playing. As long as the benefit of enchanting your gear past a certain point, aren't SUPER significant, its fine. It should just be a moderate, but significant, increase in power.
More importantly, after the early levels your character alone could not do any content at all, forcing you to level up alt chars for buffs and having them with you all the time sharing exp or buy from other players every 20 minutes from a specific spot or party with others all day long.
I just hope in AoC the buffs are neither of that power level nor significance as they were in L2 and of course my character to be playable without them
There's tons of content in this game for players to work towards and interlocking systems to keep people busy. I don't think adding BDO style grind really is necessary to get people out in the world.
I agree, the "gear grind" or "level grind" shouldn't be End Game. Once you hit max level and max gear isn't the end of MMO gameplay. Doing dungeon raids / world bosses with fun mechanics, node sieges, running a tavern, etc.. are all a lot more fun and have a longer runway than Gear/level grind.
I know not everyone wants to run raids/dungeons/world bosses simply because they are a fun challenge and they need a reward for a reason to run them, but let's get back to playing the games conent as the motivation to play, not the level or gear grind. Yes character progression is very rewarding, but it can't be the sole measure of success and fun.
If nothing else, WoW enchanting at least some different flavours to its enchanting system, paired with some neat or even unique effects.
I agree some level of RNG is needed since games are basically just very complex random number generators.
But that's basically it, this doesn't justify needing to repeat content endlessly because you have bad rolls.
Every time a developer uses rng to make something super hard to get,
he is basically just using the cheapest method he has to stretch content.
If they expect 15 bucks a month I expect them to deliver quality content on a regular basis.
Doing stuff endlessly over and over again just because I am unlucky is not quality content.
Why would I pay them for that?
More or less every arpg that has ever been created delivers that kind of content and is significantly cheaper.
Every time I see extremely low success chances on something that's useful and not just a cosmetic or a mount variation I am wondering why this should be in the game.
In 9/10 cases you find out once you look at the cash shop.
In the other case you wonder if the devs may like gambling a bit too much.
How do you define significant or even moderate and if it is not significant why have it in the game?
I mean even if it is just a 1% increase in performance it can be the different between night and day.
For example if you are wiping on a boss and lack 1% performance.
And this is no made up example.
Back in World of Warcraft Legion I used every free time I had to grind the game.
In Nighthold we had several 1% wipes on Krossus and in a moment like that I couldn't help but hate the fact that a lot or our raid members were slacking on artifact levels.
Even if every artifact level was just 1% stat increase it was a world of difference in that very moment.
So just to be absolutely clear rng systems on a small scale are okay,
but it should never be the primary decisive factor of the core content.
The seiges are different in concept to most things in AoC so I'll have to wait and see for those.
U.S. East
Not a fan of this at all. What if you play in a way where you maneuver greatly around the battlefield? Now suddenly you are locked and trapped in a random instance fight till death? No good. This and other reasons why this is a bad idea. Sounds interesting at first but no.
I could literally write an essay about the RNG enhancing, and why it is a very good concept. But sadly I lack the time imo, maybe I will actually make a video about this.
But what I want to say here, is that the enhancing system in ashes will be vastly different from BDO. What really sucked about BDO enhancing was the ridiculous amount of preperation you had to do. Farm scrolls, do scoll runs, repair gear, farm black stones, build failsstack on 15 chars so far that you can finally try to improve 1 gear piece. Yea thats fucking stupid I agree, but the RNG system itself is no problem at all if you actually understand statistics. On the contrary, the RNG enhancement system implements a very important item sink that needs a constant flow of materials, keeps the economy running and also populates the map because you have to gather them.
In battle you don't know exactly who's winning until the final horn sounds lol I think that's insane and fun but should also drive you to rather than just kill but push for the actual objective.
Lineage 2 buffs fairly insane once you had every buffer type in one party to spread it around, I would agree with you on the god mode feeling. Every game usually a few buffer classes. Shadowbane did too but none stacked so efficiently and so extensively as they did in Lineage 2 if it was meant to be balanced for PVP in any way shape or form.
Agreed, the enchant system was too insane and it wasn't just a grind it was one of the main drivers for RMTs in the game and that was something Steve was adamant about not exposing as many loop-holes as possible so hopefully that one stays in the Lineage pool. BDO has arguably just as an aggressively grindy version too but people make due, but again the rich players had an obvious advantage even before they put cron stones and valks in or reverse market auctionable items in the game.