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A change for the Bounty Hunter idea.

DiamahtDiamaht Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
I love the idea of a profession that benefits from hunting PKers. It's fantastic for both the PK'er and the BH.

The only suggestion I would have, would be to not make PKer info live data on the map. It makes things a bit to easy the BH. I would suggest a "last known location" mark on the map. If a corrupted player goes within visible range of a player or npc/npc structure his location mark will update. Doing this will tell BHs where to go, and it would make it feel a lot more like a man hunt (see Tommy Lee Jones in "The Fugitive"). BHs really should have to do at least some work to get their mark.

You could even implement tracking skills that would allow a BH to go to the last known location then execute the skills and it would give them non-exact information about what direction to take to keep tracking the target. This adds skill and tension to the hunt, it also is far more satisfying in the end than a "run to here dot".
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Comments

  • I think the way they might be doing it (not sure) is that bounty hunters will be able to 'track' the target in a way. Hopefully not just a thing on your map, but also some of where the target has been and stuff they have interacted with.

    But I agree, would like it to be more of a cool system instead of just 'check map'..
  • DiamahtDiamaht Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    Good points. For the corruption removal, you could always reduce the penalty and vastly increase the amount of time it takes to lose corruption. A smaller penalty that lasts a lot longer will give hunters time to hunt and reduce the impairment on the PK as he is cleansing.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    I agree that having a GPS on a PKrs is WAY too much.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    It is worth pointing out that there is not an infinate range on being able to see corrupted players on the map.

    So, rather than it being a case of the map gets players close and the it is up to the bounty hunter, it is the other way around where the bounty hunter has to get close, and then the map helps out.
  • noaani wrote: »
    It is worth pointing out that there is not an infinate range on being able to see corrupted players on the map.

    So, rather than it being a case of the map gets players close and the it is up to the bounty hunter, it is the other way around where the bounty hunter has to get close, and then the map helps out.

    Oh, that's way cooler than what I thought it was. Thanks.
  • DiamahtDiamaht Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    noaani wrote: »
    It is worth pointing out that there is not an infinate range on being able to see corrupted players on the map.

    So, rather than it being a case of the map gets players close and the it is up to the bounty hunter, it is the other way around where the bounty hunter has to get close, and then the map helps out.

    Depends upon how close, a red dot on the map is fine for VERY close. However, a red dot within the entire sphere of influence of the node would be way too much.

    You don't want it to become a system like CONCORD in Eve. If it is structured as a swift and severe punishment system for attacking players then why have it really?

    It comes down to intent, if you want there to be open world pvp (and I don't mean caravans, that is more of a structured pvp) then it needs to be set up as a legitimate game play system that adds content for the BH and PK both.

    If it is simply structured as punishment then it will just be a drama mechanic.

  • DiamahtDiamaht Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    A lot rides on this mechanic working well. It seems like side content at first but if you think about it, it will be a massive part of how players interact with each other in the world. If it is not very well thought out and implemented then it will become a thorn in the side of every other open world system.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    diamaht wrote: »

    Depends upon how close, a red dot on the map is fine for VERY close. However, a red dot within the entire sphere of influence of the node would be way too much.

    It won't be anything like that at all.

    I'm not sure if it is still the plan, but there was an idea to make an increase in this range one of the perks of bounty hunter progression.
    It comes down to intent, if you want there to be open world pvp (and I don't mean caravans, that is more of a structured pvp) then it needs to be set up as a legitimate game play system that adds content for the BH and PK both.
    Except they don't.

    They don't want to take the option away from people, but they also don't really want people to take that option.
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited July 2020
    diamaht wrote: »
    It comes down to intent, if you want there to be open world pvp (and I don't mean caravans, that is more of a structured pvp) then it needs to be set up as a legitimate game play system that adds content for the BH and PK both.

    Even Guild Wars will be objectives based. There won't be many large scale battles in the open world unless Guild Objectives are placed there. In fact, Guild Wars will be civil affairs. Most Guild Wars won't have a massed gank fest of levelling players.

    Edit: Guild wars won't be part of the flagging system though so I am hopeful some large scale battles will happen in Open World.
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  • VexednPerplexedVexednPerplexed Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I for one am excited to see how this works. I would prefer it if there was some actual mechanic necessary rather than showing up on the map like how WoW implemented it for BFA. Having to actually track down the target would be great.
  • MeowsedMeowsed Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited April 2023
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  • DiamahtDiamaht Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    I for one am excited to see how this works. I would prefer it if there was some actual mechanic necessary rather than showing up on the map like how WoW implemented it for BFA. Having to actually track down the target would be great.

    Me too, if it's just a flag and dot mechanic that could be a missed opportunity IMO.
  • AardvarkAardvark Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited July 2020
    How about 100G per bounty
  • OliveTheFoxOliveTheFox Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Am I only one who thinks that there should be 'some' incentive, if even a small one, for players to pk and get corrupted in the first place?

    If theres a benefit to BHs and not PKers the interaction will probably be a rare one.

    However, if its too beneficial for both parties that could be abused. In fact. I think Steven might want to look at how possibly the BH system could be abused under the current model they have now. See Runescape's broke Bounty Hunter system. If it's possible for BH person A to have Pker B get deeply corrupted by killing Mutual Friend C, Then A kill B, get reward, rotate and repeat, that could be potentially bad if BH rewards are too beneficial.
    𝙿𝚛𝚊𝚒𝚜𝚎 𝚋𝚎, 𝚝𝚑𝚎 𝙰𝚗𝚌𝚒𝚎𝚗𝚝 𝙶𝚘𝚍𝚜
  • AardvarkAardvark Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited July 2020
    master wrote: »
    Am I only one who thinks that there should be 'some' incentive, if even a small one, for players to pk and get corrupted in the first place?

    If theres a benefit to BHs and not PKers the interaction will probably be a rare one.

    However, if its too beneficial for both parties that could be abused. In fact. I think Steven might want to look at how possibly the BH system could be abused under the current model they have now. See Runescape's broke Bounty Hunter system. If it's possible for BH person A to have Pker B get deeply corrupted by killing Mutual Friend C, Then A kill B, get reward, rotate and repeat, that could be potentially bad if BH rewards are too beneficial.

    There are 2 things to encourage it. What the person you kill might drop and to annoy.
  • VexednPerplexedVexednPerplexed Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    There should be some sort of mechanic that makes being hunted an experience too rather than just oh they found you, now you die. I think the rewards sound fine for Pking - sometimes people do it because they’re bored, sometimes over farming spots, and maybe because of the loot. I can’t wait to see it in game to get a real feel for it.
  • Tsukasa wrote: »
    Not a bad idea but if this got implemented, few things need to be changed. Like corrupted player shouldn't know a hunter's location at all.

    Or BH doesn't become hostile target until he decided to attack or doesn't lose anything, so he doesn't become the prey.

    Most people would PK once to steal loot then go kill mobs to remove the corruption ASAP, possibly with guildmates protecting them VS you alone getting harassed.

    But there is not rule saying you have to hunt targets alone as a BH. Thinking logically are you not hunting the scum of the world? These people have engaged in crimes so horrendous it changed their very being. Nothing is beyond them. So logically I wouldn't go out as a solo hoping my target is gonna accept my honorable duel. Me and my seven friends are gonna travel together so we can cover more ground and decimate this scum and take their juicy loot.
  • I'd like to see more incentive to PK too, otherwise I worry not enough people will be corrupted and bounty hunters won't have enough targets.

    Things seem a bit skewed towards the PvE crowd, especially knowing there's some instanced content now, meaning they have safe-zones... So the open-world should be more dangerous to compensate for them being invulnerable some of the time.

    I'm totally biased though.
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I think the way they might be doing it (not sure) is that bounty hunters will be able to 'track' the target in a way. Hopefully not just a thing on your map, but also some of where the target has been and stuff they have interacted with.

    But I agree, would like it to be more of a cool system instead of just 'check map'..

    Age of Conan had a class specific tracking skill that could show the tracks of a recent player path.. would love to see an extension on your idea with something like that.

    As for being on the map.

    I think how visible on the map should depend on how large the corruption is. ie mildly corrupt then perhaps the map flags a zone.. and progressivley that area gets smaller the more corrupt the player becomes..

    But from L2 days, being corrupt does not always mean that the corrupted player is a stitting duck.. sometimes going after a corrupt player only leads to being killed by them again or their allys

    Great stuff!
  • Tsukasa wrote: »
    Lazyactor wrote: »
    Tsukasa wrote: »
    Not a bad idea but if this got implemented, few things need to be changed. Like corrupted player shouldn't know a hunter's location at all.

    Or BH doesn't become hostile target until he decided to attack or doesn't lose anything, so he doesn't become the prey.

    Most people would PK once to steal loot then go kill mobs to remove the corruption ASAP, possibly with guildmates protecting them VS you alone getting harassed.

    But there is not rule saying you have to hunt targets alone as a BH. Thinking logically are you not hunting the scum of the world? These people have engaged in crimes so horrendous it changed their very being. Nothing is beyond them. So logically I wouldn't go out as a solo hoping my target is gonna accept my honorable duel. Me and my seven friends are gonna travel together so we can cover more ground and decimate this scum and take their juicy loot.

    People would cooperate more for "a friend losing his gear" than for personal gain to one person (BH). The odds of having allies are against BH. The only good side is in a 1v1, they're weakened by a debuff.

    Scum of the world? In Archeage these "scum" had half the server/faction on their side, if you go against the one scum, they all go against you. I'm not even exaggerating. The power of friendship is real.
    Of course Ashes will be different. My point is I expect most PKers in non-combatant zone to have at least one friend with them beforehand, it's too common.

    Didn't bother looking for the quote, but I think it was mentioned the PvP penalty from corruption does not apply when the corrupted are fighting the Bounty Hunter. I could be wrong, but that snippet is stuck in my head for some reason.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Tsukasa wrote: »
    Lazyactor wrote: »
    Tsukasa wrote: »
    Not a bad idea but if this got implemented, few things need to be changed. Like corrupted player shouldn't know a hunter's location at all.

    Or BH doesn't become hostile target until he decided to attack or doesn't lose anything, so he doesn't become the prey.

    Most people would PK once to steal loot then go kill mobs to remove the corruption ASAP, possibly with guildmates protecting them VS you alone getting harassed.

    But there is not rule saying you have to hunt targets alone as a BH. Thinking logically are you not hunting the scum of the world? These people have engaged in crimes so horrendous it changed their very being. Nothing is beyond them. So logically I wouldn't go out as a solo hoping my target is gonna accept my honorable duel. Me and my seven friends are gonna travel together so we can cover more ground and decimate this scum and take their juicy loot.

    People would cooperate more for "a friend losing his gear" than for personal gain to one person (BH). The odds of having allies are against BH. The only good side is in a 1v1, they're weakened by a debuff.

    Scum of the world? In Archeage these "scum" had half the server/faction on their side, if you go against the one scum, they all go against you. I'm not even exaggerating. The power of friendship is real.
    Of course Ashes will be different. My point is I expect most PKers in non-combatant zone to have at least one friend with them beforehand, it's too common.

    Didn't bother looking for the quote, but I think it was mentioned the PvP penalty from corruption does not apply when the corrupted are fighting the Bounty Hunter. I could be wrong, but that snippet is stuck in my head for some reason.

    You are correct. Corrupted player's combat penalties do not apply when battling bounty hunters.
  • noaani wrote: »
    Tsukasa wrote: »
    Lazyactor wrote: »
    Tsukasa wrote: »
    Not a bad idea but if this got implemented, few things need to be changed. Like corrupted player shouldn't know a hunter's location at all.

    Or BH doesn't become hostile target until he decided to attack or doesn't lose anything, so he doesn't become the prey.

    Most people would PK once to steal loot then go kill mobs to remove the corruption ASAP, possibly with guildmates protecting them VS you alone getting harassed.

    But there is not rule saying you have to hunt targets alone as a BH. Thinking logically are you not hunting the scum of the world? These people have engaged in crimes so horrendous it changed their very being. Nothing is beyond them. So logically I wouldn't go out as a solo hoping my target is gonna accept my honorable duel. Me and my seven friends are gonna travel together so we can cover more ground and decimate this scum and take their juicy loot.

    People would cooperate more for "a friend losing his gear" than for personal gain to one person (BH). The odds of having allies are against BH. The only good side is in a 1v1, they're weakened by a debuff.

    Scum of the world? In Archeage these "scum" had half the server/faction on their side, if you go against the one scum, they all go against you. I'm not even exaggerating. The power of friendship is real.
    Of course Ashes will be different. My point is I expect most PKers in non-combatant zone to have at least one friend with them beforehand, it's too common.

    Didn't bother looking for the quote, but I think it was mentioned the PvP penalty from corruption does not apply when the corrupted are fighting the Bounty Hunter. I could be wrong, but that snippet is stuck in my head for some reason.

    You are correct. Corrupted player's combat penalties do not apply when battling bounty hunters.

    Cheers for the confirm!
  • If I am correct Bounty Hunter is like profession/guild that player can progress within it. So I wonder if going Bounty Hunters path is worth pursuing? Since being corrupted don't provide any positive effects I imagine that corrupted players will be a rarity in AoC. So bunch of Bounty Hunters will probably have not much to do in most cases.

    How about adding something opposite to BH? Bandits gangs? Players who progress in gangs would have bonuses such as more loot from attacking caravans etc. and also would be tracked/marked by bounty hunters. So the 2 groups of players would feed each other

    I love the idea of BH (a pvp police :P) but I am a little worried that it wont be profitable in most cases.
  • Tsukasa wrote: »
    Lazyactor wrote: »
    Tsukasa wrote: »
    Not a bad idea but if this got implemented, few things need to be changed. Like corrupted player shouldn't know a hunter's location at all.

    Or BH doesn't become hostile target until he decided to attack or doesn't lose anything, so he doesn't become the prey.

    Most people would PK once to steal loot then go kill mobs to remove the corruption ASAP, possibly with guildmates protecting them VS you alone getting harassed.

    But there is not rule saying you have to hunt targets alone as a BH. Thinking logically are you not hunting the scum of the world? These people have engaged in crimes so horrendous it changed their very being. Nothing is beyond them. So logically I wouldn't go out as a solo hoping my target is gonna accept my honorable duel. Me and my seven friends are gonna travel together so we can cover more ground and decimate this scum and take their juicy loot.

    People would cooperate more for "a friend losing his gear" than for personal gain to one person (BH). The odds of having allies are against BH. The only good side is in a 1v1, they're weakened by a debuff.

    Scum of the world? In Archeage these "scum" had half the server/faction on their side, if you go against the one scum, they all go against you. I'm not even exaggerating. The power of friendship is real.
    Of course Ashes will be different. My point is I expect most PKers in non-combatant zone to have at least one friend with them beforehand, it's too common.

    That's a fair point but the power of friendship isnt just something that the "evil" side has access to. Simply changing the system a little to reward all players who took part in a hunt is probably enough and provides incentive to group up. For example if on death the system takes 50 percent of all materials from your inventory, then takes lets say 20 percent of that is eaten by the resource sink system. Leaving 30 percent to be loot able by your killers. If 4 people took part in the hunt split it 4 ways. If gear drops from that player then simply have people roll for it. If you also consider you need to rank up in your BH profession sharing rewards that way also applies. If a target is worth 100 experience in BH profession just split it four ways. You get more if you go out solo but you also are less likely to succeed and therefore get nothing. You get less going out in a group but are more likely to succeed. Risk VS Reward. Thats what I think anyways.
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited July 2020
    A solo Bounty Hunter will have a rough time. It depends how much information we are given, but 1/8 Corrupted Players could potentially be your hard counter. Enmity can be real and the risk/reward is more slanted to the risk, rather than the reward. Corrupted People can get 'loot' from a Bounty Hunter too, not sure what the 'loot' is, but, the 'loot' will be gainable unless the system is changed through tests.

    Edit: There doesn't seem to be any need to boost Corrupted People any further. It's not meant to encourage joy rides, it's meant to deter the populace. With the amount of people backing Corrupted, claiming Corrupted can exploit the system and advocating for rewards for Corrupted People, I think it's safe to say we won't see a shortage of corrupted people.

    Double Edit: It would be nice if Bounty Hunter toggles removed your name while active. I say this because reprisals will be all too common. If you are a regular responder, Corrupted Players will learn your tactics, learn your class and learn your name. Not really conducive to a persistent threat which some repeat offenders will pursue if they have a fetish for fighting Bounty Hunters.
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  • GrimzarGrimzar Member
    edited July 2020
    Neurath wrote: »
    I think it's safe to say we won't see a shortage of corrupted people.

    I may disagree. Even Steven said in one of his interviews with streamers that "red" players were rarity in Lineage 2, where coruption system was more forgiving. So simply Bounty hunters may end up with nothing to do :). Thats why bandits gangs would be nice addition imho.
    Grimzar wrote: »
    How about adding something opposite to BH? Bandits gangs? Players who progress in gangs would have bonuses such as more loot from attacking caravans etc. and also would be tracked/marked by bounty hunters. So the 2 groups of players would feed each other

    especialy if attacking caravans will be outside of corruption/flaging system. Bandints gangs wouldn't be for PKers, only for ppl who want to be "bad guys" but not destroying joy for others

    EDIT. or maybe thiefs guild is for that. dunno

  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited July 2020
    To be blunt, the amount of people whining about the system makes me want to go corrupted. Of course, I can't be corrupted and Bounty Hunter at the same time. There are definitely people who crave non-consensual PvP. Whether they mean they will go corrupted is anyone's guess. There will be the PvP Crowd looking for PvP. There will be the PvE Crowd looking to corrupt players. Either the PvE Crowd will have to relent (Which they won't) or the PvP Crowd will have to relent (Which most might but not all).

    I wouldn't mind if no-one goes corrupted. If no-one went corrupted I could be free to live in a Divine Node. I feel though most Bounty Hunters won't be Healers, as such, my Cleric would be very useful to Bounty Hunter Groups and I can accept some slow days.

    Edit: I'm hoping beyond hope that my guild doesn't swap from Ashes to New World. I really love Ashes, I really don't like New World. Here's to hope!
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  • nobody whining man... only throwing suggestions to make things better.
    if nobody goes corrupted then BH profession doesn't make any sense :<
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