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Mount Availability Discussion

GreatThodricGreatThodric Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
edited July 2020 in General Discussion
I heard you can get a mount quite early on in the game and I feel like that isn't a good idea. As early as the starting zone according to the Wiki. I got the feeling that the developers want us to enjoy the feeling of hard-earned rewards and giving us each a mount early is contradictory to that philosophy. I personally would like mounts to either be available much later on or be available early but difficult to farm and use.

What are your thoughts on this?

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Mounts

And since there seems to be a few differing ideas here, I'd like to see what you guys answer in a poll.
You can select more than one but please only select one of the options in levels and gold sinks each.
https://www.strawpoll.me/20652621
Tsukasa wrote: »
Taming and Animal Husbandry are two different things. Hopefully it doesn't create confusion in the poll.
Taming is for gatherers, not just taming mains, the word "exclusive" is strong; and Husbandry is for crafters.
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Comments

  • AardvarkAardvark Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Flying mount you are never going to have isn't that rare enough? like 1 person per 5000 people will have one.
  • winner909098winner909098 Member
    GreatThodric wrote: »
    I heard you can get a mount quite early on in the game and I feel like that isn't a good idea. As early as the starting zone according to the Wiki. I got the feeling that the developers want us to enjoy the feeling of hard-earned rewards and giving us each a mount early is contradictory to that philosophy. I personally would like mounts to either be available much later on or be available early but difficult to farm and use.

    What are your thoughts on this?

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Mounts

    Im okay with it because they give you a horse with no advantages. If you didn't get mounts, it would be impossible to go through the world. They want to encourage spreading out.
    giphy.gif

    https://knightsofember.com/forums/members/winner909098.54
  • GreatThodricGreatThodric Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Aardvark wrote: »
    Flying mount you are never going to have isn't that rare enough? like 1 person per 5000 people will have one.

    I really like that rarity. Flying mounts were the very thing that destroyed WoW. But no, I'd like ground mounts to not be so freely given to each new player. It's another thing you have to work for.
    winner909098 wrote: »
    GreatThodric wrote: »
    I heard you can get a mount quite early on in the game and I feel like that isn't a good idea. As early as the starting zone according to the Wiki. I got the feeling that the developers want us to enjoy the feeling of hard-earned rewards and giving us each a mount early is contradictory to that philosophy. I personally would like mounts to either be available much later on or be available early but difficult to farm and use.

    What are your thoughts on this?

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Mounts

    Im okay with it because they give you a horse with no advantages. If you didn't get mounts, it would be impossible to go through the world. They want to encourage spreading out.

    You're already spreading out a lot due to the spawning zones. But I get what you mean. I just want ground mounts to have a bit more to them. Something to work for. Giving us a quest in the starting zone feels a little too easy.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited July 2020
    This content has been removed.
  • BobbyBickBobbyBick Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2020
    Really depends on the total size of the game world and just how much faster a mount is vs. walking. Often I find myself ignoring my mounts in a lot of games if they are just 20-30% faster than walking unless I need to cover a LOT of ground.
    dCtlpPa.png
    Probably streaming EverQuest...
  • GreatThodricGreatThodric Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Tsukasa wrote: »
    Agreed. I think the quest is a bad idea, as if Steven is just mindlessly copying his favorite MMO again.

    I want them to be hard earned through taming to feel more attached to your first mount. But the downside is that only gatherers can tame, so... got solutions write them down.
    My solution is that there should be a ranch for gatherers to sell their tamed mounts.

    I know it would be a bit too much but, damn. I'd love mount taming to be exclusive to that one profession. And that you'd have to earn enough money or something to buy a horse from mount tamers. Business for simple horses would be boomin'.
    BobbyBick wrote: »
    Really depends on the total size of the game world.

    I get you, but still. You'll mostly be contained to the areas for your level anyway. The least I want is a level 8-10 requirement. It doesn't have to be crazy difficult. I get that people are lazy. Just something to distinguish the new characters from the older. It would be an easy early goal for all players to simply want to get to level 10 and get your first mount instead of being given it on a silver platter.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited July 2020
    This content has been removed.
  • HazardNumberSevenHazardNumberSeven Member, Alpha Two
    Mounts can also be targeted and killed.
  • SamsonSamson Member
    edited July 2020
    If there are not going to be flight paths in the game then I suppose having a mount early would make sense...
    But if there are going to be flight paths I think it is important for new players to take the time to explore and take in the world without a mount. I feel that giving mounts to low level players will promote rushed play and cause players to neglect vital learning experiences.

    I feel like mounts should be a goal that we all should strive for and work towards. The mount should also cost a fair amount of gold and require the player to be a required level (ex. 18-25).

    I have played other MMOs where you are given a mount right off the bat and everything just feels so rushed.. I really feel it would be beneficial to the players if the mounts were items to be worked towards instead of items that are just freely given to everyone.
    sig-Samson-Final.gif
  • BobbyBickBobbyBick Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2020
    I'm also curious how the dynamic between bards and mounts is going to work in this particular game. I believe it is already confirmed that bards will have the ability to buff movement speed so I wonder how that is going to compare vs. mount speed and if there will be some form of multiplier (such as an instrument) or higher ranks of songs with greater movement speed modifiers such as those seen in games like EQ and DAoC.
    dCtlpPa.png
    Probably streaming EverQuest...
  • winner909098winner909098 Member
    Tsukasa wrote: »
    Agreed. I think the quest is a bad idea, as if Steven is just mindlessly copying his favorite MMO again.

    I want them to be hard earned through taming to feel more attached to your first mount. But the downside is that only gatherers can tame, so... got solutions write them down.
    My solution is that there should be a ranch for gatherers to register their tamed mounts for sell. The purpose of the ranch is to see the tamed animals moving and interact with them to see the price and owner name.

    yeah, that makes sense. I feel like if the quest line teaches you how to breed at a breeding area, it would be more effective.
    giphy.gif

    https://knightsofember.com/forums/members/winner909098.54
  • GreatThodricGreatThodric Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    There seems to be a couple of differing ideas here. I'd like to see your answers in a poll.
    You can select more than one option.
    https://www.strawpoll.me/20652621
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    hazardnumberseven wrote: »
    Mounts can also be targeted and killed.
    I wasn’t aware of this, that is cool.

    I remember being able to target vehicles in Star Wars Galaxies. Shoot a rebel in the head and kill him, he just comes back from a cloning chamber angry and wanting revenge. Blow up his speeder, and now you’ve really hurt him. :)
     
    Hhak63P.png
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited July 2020
    This content has been removed.
  • GreatThodricGreatThodric Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Tsukasa wrote: »
    Taming and Animal Husbandry are two different things. Hopefully it doesn't create confusion in the poll.
    Taming is for gatherers, not just taming mains, the word "exclusive" is strong; and Husbandry is for crafters.

    Good point. My bad. I'll add your comment to my main post.
  • GreatThodricGreatThodric Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Logical Lynx wrote: »
    I voted in favor of a questline further into the game with minimal gold/mat sink. I never really liked how late and costly they were in WoW. I never minded doing the questlines for my hatchling or wolf in L2 - in fact they were often fun and felt more rewarding than simply spending gold from my starting race vendor. Whether that happens or not doesn't matter much to me though. I have little insight to how this game will feel or play. But considering the size is considered relative to L2 walking could be tedious without some access to "gatekeepers" (teleportation to major cities).

    edit: just to add, that once getting a wolf or hatchling they were not mount ready and required significant effort and care to level to mount status.

    You're right about that. I never played L2 so I can't say. All I know is that fast travel will be kept to a minimum in Ashes. Basically only the highest tier nodes (Metropolis) and guild castles (which there's only 5 of on each server) will have some form of fast travel if I understood it correctly. I'll only get to start playing in Alpha 2 so until then it's hard to say.
  • TPOTK1NGTPOTK1NG Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I think an initial mount for people to spread out from beginning spawn points with a severely limited lifespan would be okay. Its probably best for the population to spread out as much as possible so nodes further out can be developed.
  • AmistAmist Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    TPOTK1NG wrote: »
    I think an initial mount for people to spread out from beginning spawn points with a severely limited lifespan would be okay. Its probably best for the population to spread out as much as possible so nodes further out can be developed.

    As far as we know, royalty mounts will be the only ones with a lifespan. Ground mounts can be summoned and desummoned at will.
  • AardvarkAardvark Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I want to tame a raid dragon and ride it to a siege but I don’t think that’s how it works
  • TPOTK1NGTPOTK1NG Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Amist wrote: »
    TPOTK1NG wrote: »
    I think an initial mount for people to spread out from beginning spawn points with a severely limited lifespan would be okay. Its probably best for the population to spread out as much as possible so nodes further out can be developed.

    As far as we know, royalty mounts will be the only ones with a lifespan. Ground mounts can be summoned and desummoned at will.

    Oh no way. I thought all mounts had a lifespan. I feel like that would be important to keep tamers/breeders profession in demand.
  • AardvarkAardvark Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    TPOTK1NG wrote: »
    Amist wrote: »
    TPOTK1NG wrote: »
    I think an initial mount for people to spread out from beginning spawn points with a severely limited lifespan would be okay. Its probably best for the population to spread out as much as possible so nodes further out can be developed.

    As far as we know, royalty mounts will be the only ones with a lifespan. Ground mounts can be summoned and desummoned at will.

    Oh no way. I thought all mounts had a lifespan. I feel like that would be important to keep tamers/breeders profession in demand.

    I thought mounts through husbandry had lifespan too?
  • AmistAmist Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Aardvark wrote: »
    TPOTK1NG wrote: »
    Amist wrote: »
    TPOTK1NG wrote: »
    I think an initial mount for people to spread out from beginning spawn points with a severely limited lifespan would be okay. Its probably best for the population to spread out as much as possible so nodes further out can be developed.

    As far as we know, royalty mounts will be the only ones with a lifespan. Ground mounts can be summoned and desummoned at will.

    Oh no way. I thought all mounts had a lifespan. I feel like that would be important to keep tamers/breeders profession in demand.

    I thought mounts through husbandry had lifespan too?

    There's no mention of that anywhere on the wiki page. I could be wrong, but I am quite certain that the only mounts with a lifespan are those that come from boss drops.

    In animal husbandry you'll be able to breed mounts with a variety of different abilities and appearances.

    https://imgur.com/a/YgDLEP3
  • lunarskylunarsky Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    As Amist said, I think the thing that will keep animal husbandry going is the unique looking mounts with unique/better stats. That will create the demand but in order to obtain that level of mastery, it will take time and a certain degree of luck. Mounts will probably be very expensive as a result if they're truly unique looking for example.
    Future Py'rai (M) - Shaman, Enchanter, Soul Weaver, Templar, or Necromancer (Pending)
    Future Crafting Plans: Herbalism > Alchemy & Scribe or Mining > Metalworking > Jewel cutting (Pending)
  • AardvarkAardvark Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    lunarsky wrote: »
    As Amist said, I think the thing that will keep animal husbandry going is the unique looking mounts with unique/better stats. That will create the demand but in order to obtain that level of mastery, it will take time and a certain degree of luck. Mounts will probably be very expensive as a result if they're truly unique looking for example.

    I think it would be more valuable if they bred mount skins instead so you could get the perfect look from them and stick it on the mount you want. The odds of the perfect mount stats landing on the perfect looks ...might as well buy a powerball ticket.
  • lunarskylunarsky Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Aardvark wrote: »
    lunarsky wrote: »
    As Amist said, I think the thing that will keep animal husbandry going is the unique looking mounts with unique/better stats. That will create the demand but in order to obtain that level of mastery, it will take time and a certain degree of luck. Mounts will probably be very expensive as a result if they're truly unique looking for example.

    I think it would be more valuable if they bred mount skins instead so you could get the perfect look from them and stick it on the mount you want. The odds of the perfect mount stats landing on the perfect looks ...might as well buy a powerball ticket.

    I would assume as you level up in Husbandry you gain more control over things like stats and looks so it won't be complete RNG by any means but still somewhat RNG but to a lesser degree. If the crafter is at mastery level then they can probably customize out every detail or darn near close to it.

    I feel like skins would make less sense as you have two actual mounts your breeding together for them to produce a skin and not an actual mount seems weird. I'd rather just have the two mounts than a skin and the one. Just wait until they get the stats/look you want and buy that mount.
    Future Py'rai (M) - Shaman, Enchanter, Soul Weaver, Templar, or Necromancer (Pending)
    Future Crafting Plans: Herbalism > Alchemy & Scribe or Mining > Metalworking > Jewel cutting (Pending)
  • NetoryNetory Member
    Whenever or however we do end up getting our mounts I just want it to feel like we've actually earned them at that point, and then hopefully we're not going to be glued to the top of our mounts for the rest of the game like in most mmos where you never see players on foot unless they're in a dungeon or fighting a mob.
    0sGgchB.png
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Whiel I don't know the reasons for it, one reason I can see as to why the developers would want players in Ashes to get a mount early is because they want players to have the ability to not stay in the few nodes surrounding the starting portal, should they want to.

    Players need to spread out before nodes really get going, and the best way to do that is to give them mounts.
  • HazardNumberSevenHazardNumberSeven Member, Alpha Two
    I don't think getting a mount too early is much of a concern. The world looks really big and it's not like these mounts can fly or go super-fast.
  • LafiLafi Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    GreatThodric wrote: »
    I heard you can get a mount quite early on in the game and I feel like that isn't a good idea.
    Could you source this laf
    GreatThodric wrote: »
    I heard you can get a mount quite early on in the game and I feel like that isn't a good idea. As early as the starting zone according to the Wiki. I got the feeling that the developers want us to enjoy the feeling of hard-earned rewards and giving us each a mount early is contradictory to that philosophy. I personally would like mounts to either be available much later on or be available early but difficult to farm and use.

    What are your thoughts on this?

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Mounts

    And since there seems to be a few differing ideas here, I'd like to see what you guys answer in a poll.
    You can select more than one but please only select one of the options in levels and gold sinks each.
    https://www.strawpoll.me/20652621
    Tsukasa wrote: »
    Taming and Animal Husbandry are two different things. Hopefully it doesn't create confusion in the poll.
    Taming is for gatherers, not just taming mains, the word "exclusive" is strong; and Husbandry is for crafters.

    With the scale of the world i think having them early is actually beneficial.
    It allows players to quickly spread out from spawn rather than struggling to say hunt monsters early due to overcrowding
    We also cant expect much from the first mounts. Perhaps just a 10% boost to movespeed compared to base. If that.
    Twitch.tv/Lafidell
  • GreatThodricGreatThodric Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Lafi wrote: »
    GreatThodric wrote: »
    I heard you can get a mount quite early on in the game and I feel like that isn't a good idea.
    Could you source this laf
    GreatThodric wrote: »
    I heard you can get a mount quite early on in the game and I feel like that isn't a good idea. As early as the starting zone according to the Wiki. I got the feeling that the developers want us to enjoy the feeling of hard-earned rewards and giving us each a mount early is contradictory to that philosophy. I personally would like mounts to either be available much later on or be available early but difficult to farm and use.

    What are your thoughts on this?

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Mounts

    And since there seems to be a few differing ideas here, I'd like to see what you guys answer in a poll.
    You can select more than one but please only select one of the options in levels and gold sinks each.
    https://www.strawpoll.me/20652621
    Tsukasa wrote: »
    Taming and Animal Husbandry are two different things. Hopefully it doesn't create confusion in the poll.
    Taming is for gatherers, not just taming mains, the word "exclusive" is strong; and Husbandry is for crafters.

    With the scale of the world i think having them early is actually beneficial.
    It allows players to quickly spread out from spawn rather than struggling to say hunt monsters early due to overcrowding
    We also cant expect much from the first mounts. Perhaps just a 10% boost to movespeed compared to base. If that.

    I did link a source, the Wiki, which itself has its sources linked to the Kickstarter.

    I hear that "spreading out" is the most common argument for this and I don't know if I fully agree. Knowing players, the closest towns will eventually get the most players early on, but how Ashes balances this is through the brilliant use of differing nodes.
    In essence; no matter how close a node is to the spawn areas, they simply might not be the best nodes to level up and therefore people will spread out to find the better one, regardless of travel speed.

    So even if the closest node is the one to get leveled up first, an adjacent node with a more dedicated player population (due to better resources) would eventually siege the town and take over.

    According to me, looking at the node system, spreading out without the use of early undeserved mounts doesn't seem like a problem at all.
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