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Option of changing primary class

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Comments

  • AardvarkAardvark Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2020
    screwtape wrote: »
    Aardvark wrote: »
    screwtape wrote: »
    Fear of meta chasers is the main reason I'd never support primary class changes. Choices must matter.

    I'd rather have the developers spend more time refining core game functionality like combat/classes/crafting/etc... then spend time creating a process to change core classes or name changes or other things like that. (which end up as a paid service for most other games)

    Make choices matter. You make a mistake, pick a new class, create a new character, start in a totally different region and experience almost a different game as nodes and areas are almost guaranteed to be nothing like the last time you started. Writing this almost makes me want to ensure I create a different character in each of the starting areas to see how different each character progression can be, even though I'm normally a 1 character person.

    If 45 days after launch we realise the split is 3% healers you might want some people to be able to change their class

    I'd say start a new character.

    Choices must matter, if everyone can either roll new characters with ease, or change that classes, the game will just become meta focused. "Oh you're not the flavor of the month Tank, sorry you can't come on the raid" making character class impactful and a choice, not easily changed helps prevent the meta chase.

    The population that will level all the classes to max level to chase the meta will be small, and thus will have a lower likelihood of creating a toxic elite meta culture.

    The issue with being the flavor of the month isn’t being the flavor of the month it’s with the balance being so bad that there is a rotating flavor of the month. The fix there is properly balance your game
  • MrScrewtapeMrScrewtape Member
    Aardvark wrote: »
    screwtape wrote: »
    Aardvark wrote: »
    screwtape wrote: »
    Fear of meta chasers is the main reason I'd never support primary class changes. Choices must matter.

    I'd rather have the developers spend more time refining core game functionality like combat/classes/crafting/etc... then spend time creating a process to change core classes or name changes or other things like that. (which end up as a paid service for most other games)

    Make choices matter. You make a mistake, pick a new class, create a new character, start in a totally different region and experience almost a different game as nodes and areas are almost guaranteed to be nothing like the last time you started. Writing this almost makes me want to ensure I create a different character in each of the starting areas to see how different each character progression can be, even though I'm normally a 1 character person.

    If 45 days after launch we realise the split is 3% healers you might want some people to be able to change their class

    I'd say start a new character.

    Choices must matter, if everyone can either roll new characters with ease, or change that classes, the game will just become meta focused. "Oh you're not the flavor of the month Tank, sorry you can't come on the raid" making character class impactful and a choice, not easily changed helps prevent the meta chase.

    The population that will level all the classes to max level to chase the meta will be small, and thus will have a lower likelihood of creating a toxic elite meta culture.

    The issue with being the flavor of the month isn’t being the flavor of the month it’s with the balance being so bad that there is a rotating flavor of the month. The fix there is properly balance your game

    Fair point, but there will never be "perfect" balance, too many variables and insanely creative people out there to figure out how to push things beyond intended design limits. I wouldn't say that justifies allowing core class changes. Personally I've enjoy games where choices matter, I find it annoying when systems are put in place that make choices mean less.
  • BlackBronyBlackBrony Member, Alpha Two
    No. You shouldn't be able to change primary classes, because choices matter.
    That's the whole point of the game. If you're a renown fighter, people will know your name throughout Verra, and suddenly "sorry, I'm a mage now", it makes no sense.
    Not once a year, not once 2 years. Classes are locked, there's a reason we have 8 of them.
    They're creating ways to make every class necessary, with utility skills, and such, this way you won't have 6 mages, 1 tank 1 healer.

    I'm all in favor of classes being locked, you can already augment skills from like 5 different places, you can change your secondary class.
  • WiplasherWiplasher Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The power to change your second class is enough. I agree with people are saying with class identity.

    When someone asks me what I am in a conversation I want to give one answer... Not "well it depends on what I am doing."

    As others have said just make an alt.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Won't this just make metas all the easier to do?
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • DrokkDrokk Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Choices should matter, and I don't think changing your primary class should be an option. Secondary is fine, and it seems like your secondary class has significant impact on your abilities. So being able to swap that around gives a lot of different options to your character even if you can't change your primary.
  • DontTouchMyHoHosDontTouchMyHoHos Member
    Having all in one is terrible for crafting as it eliminates the need for crafters. Your actual combat class i can agree with in some essence but it eliminates the need to expand your social circle and meet new people. Which is kinda the point of a mmo. To not play it single player, which i believe steven stated is the reason for not allowing freedom to switch like ff14 and i can say. I have no need for anyone as i can do it all myself for crafting. Even combat wise my circle is tiny as i can play every role. Introverts need to be forced out of their comfort every now and them and mmos arent specifically meant to be introvert friendly.
  • Undead CanuckUndead Canuck Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Being able to change your primary class is a bad idea. Why not just get rid of all classes? That is basically what is being proposed.
    Wanna play as a Tank today? Go for it!
    Wanna play as a Healer today? Go for it!

    Where does your identity come from? Who do you know that is an amazing athlete, can write soulful music, can perfectly sculpt a statue, and can spout wonderful verse all while riding a unicycle? Where is their identity?
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I think main class should be chosen and never allowed to change for any reason. If you don't like what you picked try something else. Recycle the name if you like or make a new one. The idea of all classes can do everything I think is a sham it cheapens the game and other peoples efforts.
    I personally intend to main a mage but if the healer count is low ill roll a cleric and heal. Making alts is a good thing it gives perspective on how the other roles play. Do to the dynamic nature of AOC starting a new toon will not be the same as other games with static starting ares.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • XraelXrael Member
    Arya wrote: »
    @CaptainChuck
    >We do NOT know how trading between alts is going to work in this game, or if it will even be allowed in the first place.
    I believe Steven said somewhere that not much will be bound, so I'm assuming trading will exist.

    >This means that ALL you have to do is figure out your right primary archetype, which shouldn't be a hard thing to do if you've ever played an MMO before.
    I've played MMOs before. I've played a lot of games before. And in all of them, making a decision that hard locks my character in pretty much any way is incredibly hard for me to do.
    In Archeage I was a Cloth mage, and had items to convert my gear to Leather. It took about 3-4 months of research, talking to people, and experiencing cloth mage for me to make a decision. Will I have 3-4 months to play each class, and speak with more experienced people to assist me in making a decision that will decide the rest of my gameplay? No, not really. And even if I did, chances of obtaining a name I care about after so long would be nigh impossible.

    I understand trying to make the decision have consequences, and I'm not against making changing your primary class to be an EVEN MORE lengthy and painful process than just making an alt. I just want the option to exist.

    If they implement it, which I highly doubt they will, I want it to be so that you can only change your primary archetype once every 8 months or so, and it should take u something like 1-2 months to complete.
  • AryaArya Member
    edited July 2020
    @screwtape
    >Choices must matter, if everyone can either roll new characters with ease, or change that classes

    I've had no objection to making rerolling your main class literally harder than just making an alt character, so I don't believe this argument has any weight.

    >The population that will level all the classes to max level to chase the meta will be small, and thus will have a lower likelihood of creating a toxic elite meta culture.

    I've had no objection to when rerolling your primary, your previous primary is reset to 0 so there would be an even lower likelihood of that toxic elite meta culture than allowing people to have 8 max level characters of each primary archetype

    @BlackBrony
    >No. You shouldn't be able to change primary classes, because choices matter.
    That's the whole point of the game. If you're a renown fighter, people will know your name throughout Verra, and suddenly "sorry, I'm a mage now", it makes no sense.
    Not once a year, not once 2 years. Classes are locked, there's a reason we have 8 of them.

    As long as you understand that this decision WILL cost you players, and WILL cost the company money as a direct result. There's at least 2 people in this thread alone who'd be such people.

    >They're creating ways to make every class necessary, with utility skills, and such, this way you won't have 6 mages, 1 tank 1 healer.

    I get that, and thats good, but what if you spent 2 months playing mage, augmenting your class, and never really felt like it worked for you. Just deal with it? Make a new character? What reason other than "I disagree" should there be to preventing a class change.

    >If you're a renown fighter, people will know your name throughout Verra, and suddenly "sorry, I'm a mage now", it makes no sense.

    I mentioned in another comment here, if you're a renown fighter and reroll to mage, people would still be able to come to you and trust you with fighter advice, help, etc, including how to combat fighters. That knowledge wouldn't vanish. Think of it more as "You're a renown fighter who's spent a long time learning the ways of magic to become a mage, and as such your skills as a fighter have waned, no longer allowing you to demonstrate the same skill with a blade"

    @wiplasher4
    >When someone asks me what I am in a conversation I want to give one answer... Not "well it depends on what I am doing."

    A system which prevents you rerolling often would make a "it depends on what I am doing" absolutely incorrect and kinda braindead. I'm not suggesting free-changing classes like FF14 or PSO2.

    @Nagash
    >Won't this just make metas all the easier to do?
    No easier than allowing alts

    @Drokk
    >Choices should matter
    A lot of people in this thread have used that catchphrase. It's a good catchphrase. And you know what? I AGREE WITH YOU it is why I have not proposed systems like FF14 and PSO2, and why I'm absolutely okay with changing your primary class being something that is literally harder than making a new character, I don't mind that at all. Your choices should matter, and if you decide to change your choice, I'm okay with that being a rather punishing experience.

    @DontTouchMyHoHos
    >Your actual combat class i can agree with in some essence but it eliminates the need to expand your social circle and meet new people. Which is kinda the point of a mmo. To not play it single player, which i believe steven stated is the reason for not allowing freedom to switch like ff14 and i can say. I have no need for anyone as i can do it all myself for crafting. Even combat wise my circle is tiny as i can play every role.

    I agree with this much, and its why I'm not asking for freedom to switch like ff14, because in ff14 that's a very real issue, absolutely. But if FF14 reset your other classes to 0, and you couldn't change again for 6 months, do you believe that'd still be an issue? I highly doubt it.

    @Undead Canuck
    >Being able to change your primary class is a bad idea. Why not just get rid of all classes? That is basically what is being proposed.
    Wanna play as a Tank today? Go for it!
    Wanna play as a Healer today? Go for it!

    No. That's not what's being proposed. Not at all. And your follow up "wanna play x today" is also not at all respresentative of what I'm suggesting. If you really wanted to say a sentence like that, it'd be more:
    Wanna play as a Tank this year? Go for it!
    Wanna play as a Healer this year? Go for it!

    I completely understand and support not allowing people to change their class on a daily basis. That makes sense, I can agree with it, and I see and can agree or at least accept many peoples issues with such a system.

    @bloodprophet
    >I think main class should be chosen and never allowed to change for any reason. If you don't like what you picked try something else. Recycle the name if you like or make a new one. The idea of all classes can do everything I think is a sham it cheapens the game and other peoples efforts.

    What I've suggested would allow you to try something else though..
    And it also wouldn't be an all classes can do everything...

    @CaptainChuck
    >If they implement it, which I highly doubt they will, I want it to be so that you can only change your primary archetype once every 8 months or so, and it should take u something like 1-2 months to complete.

    Yep I would be completely okay with that. That's all this suggestion is, it's not, despite peoples attempts of demonising it, a suggestion to let you change depending on the weather.
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