This is just the perspective of someone from the outside looking in. If it stays or not, I'm not too fussed, until it gets to the point you just see a group of 5, essentially bots, just camping spots all over the place
But I always tend to ask myself quite a few questions,
Why allow players to do?
Why do people feel the need to multi-box?
What purpose does it serve?
Why not just play a single character as intended?
How does it benefit the game or the play-base in any way?
I tend to ask these questions because I just see negatives being brought up, also not a fan of devs having to spend time thinking of a way for it to not get out of hand.
I don't know, for me, it feels like an easy solution of just, don't allow it. The stress and drama that comes with it seem not worth the time IMHO.
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Undead CanuckMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@noaani TY for sharing your story. My response is as I wrote above. This was an advantage because you had your DPS and support available at the same time, and the loot in all two/three characters becomes your property regardless of which characters takes it.
You know what, I'm tired of these topics and from fighting and wasting my time alone ...I'll stop here.
If you have the skill to play two DIFF characters simultaneously, then by all means go ahead and multibox. I doubt many people will be able to emulate that level of skill, without a lot of effort.
For the millionth time. IT IS LOCKED BEHIND PAYMENT, MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION + PC. It's not solely a matter of skill.
IT IS LOCKED BEHIND PAYMENT.
IT IS LOCKED BEHIND PAYMENT. IT IS LOCKED BEHIND PAYMENT. IT IS LOCKED BEHIND PAYMENT. IT IS LOCKED BEHIND PAYMENT.
So what you are saying is that everyone who plays 1 copy of the game is paying to win. By your arguement, paying for a subscription is P2W. Therefore, everybody is paying to win. I guess they can shut down development because you have said that the whole game is P2W if it has a subscription.
You cannot refute this post without refuting your own.
I don't know, for me, it feels like an easy solution of just, don't allow it.
While this may seem like an easy solution, the question then becomes, how?
How can Intrepid tell if the two computers in my house, paid for from different credit cards, with clients running on different computers, are indeed being played by different people?
There is no way they are able to tell that.
Further, if I make use of a VPN, they won't even be able to tell if those two computers are in the same country, let alone the same house.
What developers can do though (and all but Blizzard do in fact do) is prevent people from using automation. This is easier to spot, and is an actual issue. This is what that group of five characters you see are actually doing - that isn't multiboxing, it is botting.
It is really hard for game developers to find bots before players point them out to the developer, but once the developer has sight of them, it is not usually all that hard to determine if they are indeed using automation of any form, or if there is something else going on.
I do know a few people that enjoy pretending to be bots, just to piss players off - the players report them, then the group of people prove to the develoeprs that they are not botting, then the people that report them get upset that these "bots" are still there weeks, months or even years later - one hell of an epic troll on both the players and developer imo.
If you cant detect virtual environments, then entire point of only allowing multiple pcs is moot. If they can stop virtual environments, then im ok. Simply because doing it on multiple pcs is impossible to catch. Thats what needs to be answered. If you arent allowed to run multiple instances using software etc. The only other way to multibox on one pc is virtual environments.
I understand what you're trying to say. You're saying that people who pay more will be able to dual control two characters and thereby have convenience in game.
But this convenience is extremely limited, due to the open world pvp nature of the game. A lot of players will be grouped up, so whilst you may have the advantage in the 1v2, it's not the case in a 2v2, as 2 different players, controlling a single character each, will almost always be more efficient than a single player controlling 2. And it only gets worse for the multiboxer, as the scale of pvp keeps increasing.
Think of a person that is duo boxing as someone who is playing with a friend. Its very likely that you will encounter groups of players in the world. It is only when the no. of characters a multiboxer is playing, is higher than the average no. of players in a group in the world, that it becomes a big problem.
But this larger scale multiboxing won't be possible simply because of Active GMs, not being able to use scripts, limiting/removing family travel etc. etc. all of which i mentioned in my post.
The convenience is actually increased due to the lack of fast travel. Being at different locations for auctions and gathering etc. will be huge. If this can happen its p2w. Doesnt mater how big a scale it is. Its p2w period.
It takes skill to be able to control two characters to a degree where players that don't know you are multiboxing can't tell, and think that is simply two players that always happen to play together.
Most players can't even manage to get the movement aspect of that right, let alone the combat. And once you have combat sorted, chat is the real challenge. Being able to participate in a discussion in group chat - or even world chat - as two different characters with two different points of view, both typing fast enough that people wouldn't think you are a single person... and doing that all while not getting the characters mixed up - that takes actual skill.
I mean, it is locked away behind a monthly subscription, which seems to be included in what pay to win actually means to you.
Saying, purchasing a game being p2w is pretty much bring shit up for the sake to say something. Its ignorant to say that. Everyone has to pay to play and are on equal footing. If there was f2p vs subs then it would be p2w, in this case it is not p2w as subbing offers zero advantage over anyone else. Saying a sub game is p2w is trolling and now you are just grasping at straws hoping something sticks.
Buckle up me mateys, this is going to be a long and detailed post. There are 3 segments to this post: a little info on multiboxing, why it wont be as much of an issue in AoC as in WoW, and finally, possible solutions to Multiboxing. I've boldened and italicized these headings, so feel free to skip around. However, if you have the time, I suggest reading the whole thing through.
After the recent AMA with Steven, a large portion of the community has been discussing about multiboxing.
A large amount of the people posting about Multiboxing, have come from WoW where they have had bad experiences with Multiboxing. (Basically, from Asmongold’s recent stream, where he watched the AMA live.)
Before I jump into possible solutions and discuss why multiboxing won’t be as much of an issue in AoC as in WoW, I will first give you a little context.
So, what exactly is multiboxing? Multiboxing refers to playing as multiple separate characters concurrently in an MMORPG.
Most game developers allow multiboxing in their games. To date, Age of Conan, Aion, Anarchy Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, EVE Online, Lord of the Rings Online, EverQuest, EverQuest II, Lineage, Lineage II, Warhammer Online and World of Warcraft all allow multiboxing. So, it’s something that has existed in MMOs for a long time.
Now, I’ll talk about multiboxing with regards to WoW specifically.
In World of Warcraft, Blizzard allows players to multibox on the SAME hardware. This means that players can play with multiple accounts on the same PC or on different PCs. They are ALSO allowed to use SOFTWARE (macros and scripts), that allow them to master-control multiple accounts. What this means is that say for e.g., one person is playing 3 druids across 3 accounts. When you press an ability on a single druid, there is software available, that is allowed by Blizzard, that will replicate this command onto multiple other characters. So essentially, by pressing a single ability on one of the druids, you can make the other 2 druids cast the same spell as well.
What this results in is a group of x amount of characters (from 2 to 40 to sometimes around a 100), of the same class, moving in a group, gathering important resources that spawn in a certain area, and not letting anyone else get any of it.
The main example of this is the Zinanthid herb in Nazjatar, a neutral zone in WoW. Tons of multiboxers farm this herb, which is used in crafting several combat-boosting potions and other things. Even though it is a neutral zone, players from the opposing faction cannot contest these multiboxing groups as they will get one-shot (Because of the master-control thing I mentioned above. Getting hit by 7 to 40 copies of a high dmg ability, will one-shot anyone of a comparable level).
Not only does this sometimes ruin the game’s economy by flooding it with resources, it RUINS player experience by creating game lag and crashing the server. (This happened with the Emerald Dream server, in WoW, a couple of years back. At that time, there were MULTIPLE multiboxers running around with over a 100 characters each.)
Now that I’ve given you a decent bit of context on multiboxing, let us move on to why multiboxing won’t be as much of an issue in AoC, as in WoW.
1) Steven has said that macros and scripts will NOT be allowed. This is the MAIN reason that multiboxers exist in WoW. Because they can master-control multiple characters of the same class. Not allowing this has the potential to, on its own, remove the ENTIRETY of the multiboxers population, assuming that the game is perfect at tracking macros/scripts. Now this is obviously unlikely, so we will most likely still have to deal with multiboxers.
2) Steven has also said that multiboxing is ONLY allowed if the player that is playing on multiple accounts is playing it on MULTIPLE PCs i.e. one account per PC. This is different from WoW. In WoW, you are allowed to play with multiple accounts on the SAME PC. So, this further restricts multiboxers, forcing them to spend extremely high amounts of money on PCs if they wish to run multiple accounts at the same time.
3) Another MAIN reason that a large amount of these multiboxers won’t exist in AoC is because Ashes does not have something similar to a WoW token. The WoW token is an item that gives you subscription time in exchange for a large amount of in-game gold. This is the main reason why multiboxers with multiple accounts are able to sustain themselves. They are able to farm gold efficiently and pay for subscription time with in-game gold. This results in them not having to pay subscription fees for their accounts, reducing their costs significantly.
4) Multiboxers won’t be able to ruin player experience in AoC, unlike in WoW, as Steven has said that default player appearances and other features will be used to help with rendering and reduce server lag, when a certain no. of player clients come in radius of each other. These features don’t exist for open world PvP in WoW, and is the main reason for the server lag and fps drops caused by multiboxers.
5) Because distance matters in this game, unlike in WoW, this also limits multiboxers to an extent. According to the wiki, we will have one time resources (resources that can be collected only once and respawn randomly on the map after a cd), moving resources (like herd of sheep, that move constantly on the map) and finally, resource clusters (large mines with a particular type of ore in it). Multiboxers won’t benefit from the first two due to the huge distance between spawn locations. What they will benefit from however, are the large vein resources. However, there is an easy fix for this that I will mention in the solutions below.
So these are the main reasons why AoC will not suffer from AS MANY multiboxers as in WoW.
Now let us talk about possible ways to deal with the HANDFUL of multiboxers that DO manage to escape detection. How do we combat these people?
I came up with two solutions after reading through a few rage-filled blizzard forums.
1) Limit the no. of IDENTICAL classes per IP address. If a family were to be playing an MMO together, it is extremely unlikely that all of them will pick the same exact class. Only multiboxers do so, because they want to be able to master-control them.
2) There is an easy fix to prevent multiboxers from farming large-vein resources. Simply make large vein resource locations into PvP zones, so that players don’t gain corruption from killing other players that come to contest the resource. Because multiboxers are controlling multiple characters at once, they will not be efficient at large scale PvP. Since combat in AoC is skill dependent, this will result in an organized group of around 20 to 30 players, being able to take out 40-man multiboxers fairly easily. This will make it extremely difficult for them to consistently farm resources. If you wish to make large-vein resources less contested, you could also give players personal mines for these resources that give them a certain fixed amount of ores, on a regular basis.
I also came across 2 other solutions that players suggested:
3) Herbs, Minerals, as well as other collectibles should be made so that they can only be looted once per node by a player, per Intrepid account and per IP Address.
4) Another suggestion was to make the resource nodes, that were available to be collected in a particular region, being different for each character. So if there are x no. of nodes in a particular region, that is available for collection, it will appear in different locations for every character.
Not sure how effective 3) and 4) are at stopping multiboxing, but I put them up just in case.
So to conclude, I don’t think multiboxing will be a significant issue in AoC. Those that do manage to get through will be few and far between and won't have much of an impact on the playerbase.
How many of those mmos allow multiboxing are still up and running? Honestly all those mmos where ruined. Their economy is trash botting is rampant and games got shutdown. Wow is theonly one i know exists still and gold selling is rampant. So is botting. Its rampant in all of them. Eve sub numbers are low in regards to that and multiboxingin eve is 100% p2w.
Saying a sub game is p2w is trolling and now you are just grasping at straws hoping something sticks.
I mean, I would be if that were the argument I was making.
The post of mine that you quoted was me taking another posters point to it's logical conclusion - it is not my argument at all.
My argument is two-fold.
The first is that it is foolish for intrepid to attempt to prevent any activity they can not detect. This is also one of my points in regards to combat trackers (for those that were around in the good old days - of May).
The second is that multiboxing (as opposed to other activities that often get incorrectly lumped in with multiboxing) dosen't really provide you with any inherent benefits.
For the first point, it is fortunate for all concerned that developers are able to spot automation without too much of an issue. In a game like Ashes, even the best multiboxers out there wont be able to use more than 3 accounts at a time, though most would struggle with just 2.
This means the issue of the full group or raid size mass of characters walking around the game simply won't happen here. This though, is botting - not multiboxing.
To the second point - when a player subscribes to the game, they get nothing but access to the game. What they do with that access is up to them. The same goes for two friends that subscribe to the game together, or to one person that subscribes twice.
In all cases, they get nothing other than what their in game actions have allowed them to get.
This in itself kills off any notion of pay to win, as even with two account, you still only get what your in game actions allow for.
I repeat again, the same rule was in Archeage and multiboxing was EXTREMELY common, everywhere!
Multiboxing was everywhere in Archage because it cut tax rates in half.
That is the reason people got second and third accounts, and then people ran CR/GR with alts in order to get honor in order to use that to buy tradeable items that their main wanted.
Multiboxing in combat - espevially PvP, was almost never seen there.
The way to stop that kind of multiboxing though is not by enforcing different rules, it is by developing a better game.
@noaani TY for sharing your story. My response is as I wrote above. This was an advantage because you had your DPS and support available at the same time, and the loot in all two/three characters becomes your property regardless of which characters takes it.
You know what, I'm tired of these topics and from fighting and wasting my time alone ...I'll stop here.
If you have the skill to play two DIFF characters simultaneously, then by all means go ahead and multibox. I doubt many people will be able to emulate that level of skill, without a lot of effort.
For the millionth time. IT IS LOCKED BEHIND PAYMENT, MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION + PC. It's not solely a matter of skill.
IT IS LOCKED BEHIND PAYMENT.
IT IS LOCKED BEHIND PAYMENT. IT IS LOCKED BEHIND PAYMENT. IT IS LOCKED BEHIND PAYMENT. IT IS LOCKED BEHIND PAYMENT.
So what you are saying is that everyone who plays 1 copy of the game is paying to win. By your arguement, paying for a subscription is P2W. Therefore, everybody is paying to win. I guess they can shut down development because you have said that the whole game is P2W if it has a subscription.
You cannot refute this post without refuting your own.
If you go with with your logic, there won't be a limit to how many accounts one person can own, as long as they're playing on different computers.
Account-bounds would be useless, and many exploits will be possible. Again, multiboxing is straightforward P2W, simple and plain. There is no reason for it to exist.
Also,
Having multiple computers isn't hard as it sounds. Personally I play on laptops, so every time I upgrade, I buy a new laptop and save the older ones somewhere. They're all good specs & playable!
Some people have family/roommates who no longer use their computers.
I repeat again, the same rule was in Archeage and multiboxing was EXTREMELY common, everywhere!
This will be my last comment to YOU as you seem to be trolling/sarcastic/easygoing.
Yes there is no reason for it to exist. But it exists because its very difficult to prevent it. You can't just say that multiboxing shouldn't be allowed and expect it to go poof. You need to realize that its very difficult to prevent it in the first place, hence why its allowed with restrictions.
To comment on your first point, I think there's some confusion as to how multiboxing works in WoW. When vanilla was released 16 years ago, you could use the lua api to control separate characters with macros but that changed many years ago. Today, multiboxing works by sending key-strokes to multiple clients. So, if youi press frost bolt on 1 screen that keystroke is propagated to other machines in your network which are presumptively running the same class in a client on their machine. This can be on one machine with multiple clients or several machines with 1 client.. This software works across a network, whether it be 1 pc or 6. Just wanted to provide a little clarity on how multiboxing works.
Just wanted to provide a little clarity on how multiboxing works.
And just so YOU are clear, in any other game on the market - which is to say, any game with developers that care - this is considered botting, and you will be banned.
How many of those mmos allow multiboxing are still up and running? Honestly all those mmos where ruined. Their economy is trash botting is rampant and games got shutdown. Wow is theonly one i know exists still and gold selling is rampant. So is botting. Its rampant in all of them. Eve sub numbers are low in regards to that and multiboxingin eve is 100% p2w.
There is a CLEAR difference between botting and multiboxing. IT IS NOT the same thing. Also, WoW is THE MOST successful MMORPG right now, whether you like it or not. This means that even in a game where multiboxing is allowed, it won't have a MAJOR enough impact such that it makes the game unplayable. Multiboxing has existed in WoW since the very beginning.
I have tried to explain the same dynamics of Multi Boxing, but, people stick to their own opinions of what Multi Boxing is. It is difficult when people mix Multi Boxing, Botting and Multiple Accounts together. These are separate issues.
To comment on your first point, I think there's some confusion as to how multiboxing works in WoW. When vanilla was released 16 years ago, you could use the lua api to control separate characters with macros but that changed many years ago. Today, multiboxing works by sending key-strokes to multiple clients. So, if youi press frost bolt on 1 screen that keystroke is propagated to other machines in your network which are presumptively running the same class in a client on their machine. This can be on one machine with multiple clients or several machines with 1 client.. This software works across a network, whether it be 1 pc or 6. Just wanted to provide a little clarity on how multiboxing works.
Right, this post will give also give more insight to those who wish to understand it in detail.
Saying a sub game is p2w is trolling and now you are just grasping at straws hoping something sticks.
I mean, I would be if that were the argument I was making.
The post of mine that you quoted was me taking another posters point to it's logical conclusion - it is not my argument at all.
My argument is two-fold.
The first is that it is foolish for intrepid to attempt to prevent any activity they can not detect. This is also one of my points in regards to combat trackers (for those that were around in the good old days - of May).
The second is that multiboxing (as opposed to other activities that often get incorrectly lumped in with multiboxing) dosen't really provide you with any inherent benefits.
For the first point, it is fortunate for all concerned that developers are able to spot automation without too much of an issue. In a game like Ashes, even the best multiboxers out there wont be able to use more than 3 accounts at a time, though most would struggle with just 2.
This means the issue of the full group or raid size mass of characters walking around the game simply won't happen here. This though, is botting - not multiboxing.
To the second point - when a player subscribes to the game, they get nothing but access to the game. What they do with that access is up to them. The same goes for two friends that subscribe to the game together, or to one person that subscribes twice.
In all cases, they get nothing other than what their in game actions have allowed them to get.
This in itself kills off any notion of pay to win, as even with two account, you still only get what your in game actions allow for.
You dont need to control all the characters at the exact same time to abuse multiboxing. You can simply preposition characters at locations and casually tab through the cliens to gather in location on the other sude of the world.
How many of those mmos allow multiboxing are still up and running? Honestly all those mmos where ruined. Their economy is trash botting is rampant and games got shutdown. Wow is theonly one i know exists still and gold selling is rampant. So is botting. Its rampant in all of them. Eve sub numbers are low in regards to that and multiboxingin eve is 100% p2w.
There is a CLEAR difference between botting and multiboxing. IT IS NOT the same thing. Also, WoW is THE MOST successful MMORPG right now, whether you like it or not. This means that even in a game where multiboxing is allowed, it won't have a MAJOR enough impact such that it makes the game unplayable. Multiboxing has existed in WoW since the very beginning.
Its not just botting. Botting was just tossed in there as one of the reasons. Wow is a trash game imo. Just because its allowed doesnt make it could. Blizz devs are horrible at doing anything right imo. Wow is outdated an trash. Most people bash it for being garbage that i know of and the community actively bashes it. To me wow is boring and uninspiring.
How many of those mmos allow multiboxing are still up and running? Honestly all those mmos where ruined. Their economy is trash botting is rampant and games got shutdown. Wow is theonly one i know exists still and gold selling is rampant. So is botting. Its rampant in all of them. Eve sub numbers are low in regards to that and multiboxingin eve is 100% p2w.
There is a CLEAR difference between botting and multiboxing. IT IS NOT the same thing. Also, WoW is THE MOST successful MMORPG right now, whether you like it or not. This means that even in a game where multiboxing is allowed, it won't have a MAJOR enough impact such that it makes the game unplayable. Multiboxing has existed in WoW since the very beginning.
Saying a sub game is p2w is trolling and now you are just grasping at straws hoping something sticks.
I mean, I would be if that were the argument I was making.
The post of mine that you quoted was me taking another posters point to it's logical conclusion - it is not my argument at all.
My argument is two-fold.
The first is that it is foolish for intrepid to attempt to prevent any activity they can not detect. This is also one of my points in regards to combat trackers (for those that were around in the good old days - of May).
The second is that multiboxing (as opposed to other activities that often get incorrectly lumped in with multiboxing) dosen't really provide you with any inherent benefits.
For the first point, it is fortunate for all concerned that developers are able to spot automation without too much of an issue. In a game like Ashes, even the best multiboxers out there wont be able to use more than 3 accounts at a time, though most would struggle with just 2.
This means the issue of the full group or raid size mass of characters walking around the game simply won't happen here. This though, is botting - not multiboxing.
To the second point - when a player subscribes to the game, they get nothing but access to the game. What they do with that access is up to them. The same goes for two friends that subscribe to the game together, or to one person that subscribes twice.
In all cases, they get nothing other than what their in game actions have allowed them to get.
This in itself kills off any notion of pay to win, as even with two account, you still only get what your in game actions allow for.
You dont need to control all the characters at the exact same time to abuse multiboxing. You can simply preposition characters at locations and casually tab through the cliens to gather in location on the other sude of the world.
So we are making assumptions that resources act in a predicable way?
Why are we making that assumption?
What assumption? This is a video game. It isnt going to be 100% random and since there is not fast travel per say. It makes shit immensely easier than traveling across the continent. Players are going to map out resource nodes and track timers of respawns then upload this info. Ff14 has an entire website dedicated to this. It tells you where the nodes spawn and how long. Dont underestimate the power of a gamer to figure out every single aspect of a game and min max the ever living fuck out of it.
Exactly. It will probably be like ff14 where its random in an area. You can easily tab move there gather, then just tab to the next char based on timers. Since they wont allow multiboxing on a single computer with software this is only possible in virtual environments.
So we are making assumptions that resources act in a predicable way?
Why are we making that assumption?
What assumption? This is a video game. It isnt going to be 100% random and since there is not fast travel per say. It makes shit immensely easier than traveling across the continent. Players are going to map out resource nodes and track timers of respawns then upload this info. Ff14 has an entire website dedicated to this. It tells you where the nodes spawn and how long. Dont underestimate the power of a gamer to figure out every single aspect of a game and min max the ever living fuck out of it.
See, you don't have a great grasp on the systems in Ashes.
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AtamaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
So we are making assumptions that resources act in a predicable way?
Why are we making that assumption?
I doubt that they can truly make it random. More than likely, it will just spawn in a random location out of a list of locations.
Actual randomness is impossible with a computer. Giving users the appearance of randomness - even when attempting to find a pattern, isn't that hard.
That list of spawns though, it will be hundreds of locations.
It can be effectively random. It can be close enough to random that you’d never tell the difference. It’s not even hard, i even did it as a kid goofing around with amateur game design.
Let’s say an area is an actual square mile in size on the game. You can have a resource node pop up anywhere in that area. A week is 604,800 seconds. Chop up that square mile game area into a grid of 604,800 squares (each about 5 square yards in size; relatively pretty small in a square mile area).
Then create an algorithm that assigns each second of the week to one of those 5 square yard pieces. And then depending on the exact second the node is depleted, it respawns in a predetermined spot. The cycle resets at exactly 12 AM each Sunday local time.
So that means that you’d have to figure out exactly where in an actual square mile the node is going to pop up, out of 604,800 potential locations spread out over that area (again, each a 5 yard square section) in a seemingly random way based on the exact second of the week. And these areas are scattered widely each second; from one second to the next it might spawn very close, or on the other side of the area. Again, determined by algorithm ahead of time, not a simple step-by-step grid.
You are not going to figure it out. It will look as close to random as possible. Without reverse-engineering the game code and peeking through it obsessively would you be able to do it. It doesn’t have to be a dozen rotating locations. It can be hundreds of thousands across a mile. It depends on what the developers want to do. But again, it’s not even hard if a nerdy teenager goofing around can figure it out, professional game designers with years of experience working as a team can.
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badtasteMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
how will they stop multiboxing while still allowing me to play with my gf?
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But I always tend to ask myself quite a few questions,
Why allow players to do?
Why do people feel the need to multi-box?
What purpose does it serve?
Why not just play a single character as intended?
How does it benefit the game or the play-base in any way?
I tend to ask these questions because I just see negatives being brought up, also not a fan of devs having to spend time thinking of a way for it to not get out of hand.
I don't know, for me, it feels like an easy solution of just, don't allow it. The stress and drama that comes with it seem not worth the time IMHO.
So what you are saying is that everyone who plays 1 copy of the game is paying to win. By your arguement, paying for a subscription is P2W. Therefore, everybody is paying to win. I guess they can shut down development because you have said that the whole game is P2W if it has a subscription.
You cannot refute this post without refuting your own.
How can Intrepid tell if the two computers in my house, paid for from different credit cards, with clients running on different computers, are indeed being played by different people?
There is no way they are able to tell that.
Further, if I make use of a VPN, they won't even be able to tell if those two computers are in the same country, let alone the same house.
What developers can do though (and all but Blizzard do in fact do) is prevent people from using automation. This is easier to spot, and is an actual issue. This is what that group of five characters you see are actually doing - that isn't multiboxing, it is botting.
It is really hard for game developers to find bots before players point them out to the developer, but once the developer has sight of them, it is not usually all that hard to determine if they are indeed using automation of any form, or if there is something else going on.
I do know a few people that enjoy pretending to be bots, just to piss players off - the players report them, then the group of people prove to the develoeprs that they are not botting, then the people that report them get upset that these "bots" are still there weeks, months or even years later - one hell of an epic troll on both the players and developer imo.
The convenience is actually increased due to the lack of fast travel. Being at different locations for auctions and gathering etc. will be huge. If this can happen its p2w. Doesnt mater how big a scale it is. Its p2w period.
Saying, purchasing a game being p2w is pretty much bring shit up for the sake to say something. Its ignorant to say that. Everyone has to pay to play and are on equal footing. If there was f2p vs subs then it would be p2w, in this case it is not p2w as subbing offers zero advantage over anyone else. Saying a sub game is p2w is trolling and now you are just grasping at straws hoping something sticks.
How many of those mmos allow multiboxing are still up and running? Honestly all those mmos where ruined. Their economy is trash botting is rampant and games got shutdown. Wow is theonly one i know exists still and gold selling is rampant. So is botting. Its rampant in all of them. Eve sub numbers are low in regards to that and multiboxingin eve is 100% p2w.
The post of mine that you quoted was me taking another posters point to it's logical conclusion - it is not my argument at all.
My argument is two-fold.
The first is that it is foolish for intrepid to attempt to prevent any activity they can not detect. This is also one of my points in regards to combat trackers (for those that were around in the good old days - of May).
The second is that multiboxing (as opposed to other activities that often get incorrectly lumped in with multiboxing) dosen't really provide you with any inherent benefits.
For the first point, it is fortunate for all concerned that developers are able to spot automation without too much of an issue. In a game like Ashes, even the best multiboxers out there wont be able to use more than 3 accounts at a time, though most would struggle with just 2.
This means the issue of the full group or raid size mass of characters walking around the game simply won't happen here. This though, is botting - not multiboxing.
To the second point - when a player subscribes to the game, they get nothing but access to the game. What they do with that access is up to them. The same goes for two friends that subscribe to the game together, or to one person that subscribes twice.
In all cases, they get nothing other than what their in game actions have allowed them to get.
This in itself kills off any notion of pay to win, as even with two account, you still only get what your in game actions allow for.
That is the reason people got second and third accounts, and then people ran CR/GR with alts in order to get honor in order to use that to buy tradeable items that their main wanted.
Multiboxing in combat - espevially PvP, was almost never seen there.
The way to stop that kind of multiboxing though is not by enforcing different rules, it is by developing a better game.
Yes there is no reason for it to exist. But it exists because its very difficult to prevent it. You can't just say that multiboxing shouldn't be allowed and expect it to go poof. You need to realize that its very difficult to prevent it in the first place, hence why its allowed with restrictions.
There is a CLEAR difference between botting and multiboxing. IT IS NOT the same thing. Also, WoW is THE MOST successful MMORPG right now, whether you like it or not. This means that even in a game where multiboxing is allowed, it won't have a MAJOR enough impact such that it makes the game unplayable. Multiboxing has existed in WoW since the very beginning.
I have tried to explain the same dynamics of Multi Boxing, but, people stick to their own opinions of what Multi Boxing is. It is difficult when people mix Multi Boxing, Botting and Multiple Accounts together. These are separate issues.
Right, this post will give also give more insight to those who wish to understand it in detail.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/i-will-answer-your-multiboxing-questions/173486
You dont need to control all the characters at the exact same time to abuse multiboxing. You can simply preposition characters at locations and casually tab through the cliens to gather in location on the other sude of the world.
Its not just botting. Botting was just tossed in there as one of the reasons. Wow is a trash game imo. Just because its allowed doesnt make it could. Blizz devs are horrible at doing anything right imo. Wow is outdated an trash. Most people bash it for being garbage that i know of and the community actively bashes it. To me wow is boring and uninspiring.
Multiboxing and multiaccounting are synonymous.
And in what way is this of any benefit?
@noaani
It helps them camp resource node spawn locations.
Why are we making that assumption?
What assumption? This is a video game. It isnt going to be 100% random and since there is not fast travel per say. It makes shit immensely easier than traveling across the continent. Players are going to map out resource nodes and track timers of respawns then upload this info. Ff14 has an entire website dedicated to this. It tells you where the nodes spawn and how long. Dont underestimate the power of a gamer to figure out every single aspect of a game and min max the ever living fuck out of it.
I doubt that they can truly make it random. More than likely, it will just spawn in a random location out of a list of locations.
That list of spawns though, it will be hundreds of locations.
See, you don't have a great grasp on the systems in Ashes.
Let’s say an area is an actual square mile in size on the game. You can have a resource node pop up anywhere in that area. A week is 604,800 seconds. Chop up that square mile game area into a grid of 604,800 squares (each about 5 square yards in size; relatively pretty small in a square mile area).
Then create an algorithm that assigns each second of the week to one of those 5 square yard pieces. And then depending on the exact second the node is depleted, it respawns in a predetermined spot. The cycle resets at exactly 12 AM each Sunday local time.
So that means that you’d have to figure out exactly where in an actual square mile the node is going to pop up, out of 604,800 potential locations spread out over that area (again, each a 5 yard square section) in a seemingly random way based on the exact second of the week. And these areas are scattered widely each second; from one second to the next it might spawn very close, or on the other side of the area. Again, determined by algorithm ahead of time, not a simple step-by-step grid.
You are not going to figure it out. It will look as close to random as possible. Without reverse-engineering the game code and peeking through it obsessively would you be able to do it. It doesn’t have to be a dozen rotating locations. It can be hundreds of thousands across a mile. It depends on what the developers want to do. But again, it’s not even hard if a nerdy teenager goofing around can figure it out, professional game designers with years of experience working as a team can.