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What kind of combat dynamics do you guys prefer?
Valento92
Member
As in Global Cooldown (FFXIV)? Or more hybrid (GW2)? Or highly action-oriented (TERA)?
I really don't like global cooldown at all; my ideal combat dynamics are from GW2. Even caster classes can cast/fire spells while moving and it increases the feeling of freedom in a fight. It feels much better than having to sit and cast for all spells, unless there are more insta-cast spells? Obviously strong skills require you to stand still in order to be able to cast but it's mostly free to move, the dynamic is very satisfying.
How do you guys prefer? Where do your favorite combat dynamics stem from?
I really don't like global cooldown at all; my ideal combat dynamics are from GW2. Even caster classes can cast/fire spells while moving and it increases the feeling of freedom in a fight. It feels much better than having to sit and cast for all spells, unless there are more insta-cast spells? Obviously strong skills require you to stand still in order to be able to cast but it's mostly free to move, the dynamic is very satisfying.
How do you guys prefer? Where do your favorite combat dynamics stem from?
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I attempted to play GW2 again a while ago - I played it at launch for a few months and then stopped when there was nothing to do.
When I went back, I'd completely forgotten my account details but decided I'd just start up a new account.
Started playing the game, and the way combat worked on my Elementalist (iirc), it felt like I was botting. I'd press one button and the spell would repeat cast until the mob died.
I honestly felt like I was cheating, it was that easy and boring. I quit for a second time fairly quickly.
So yeah, not that.
I heard a bird ♫
By a mile.
Each class in EQ2 has more depth to it than all of WoW's combat combined.
I have not played FFXIV (though it is probably on my list of games to try if I find some spare time before Ashes launches).
What I want to see is a game where mages and rogues feel different to play in combat. If rogues are fast attacking, where getting in an attack is more important than exactly which attack you get in, then mages should be slower casting, but where getting the exact right spell is key.
If I have a caster that is full of instant cast abilities, then I am essentially playing as a magical, ranged rogue.
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die.
Obviously I'm a little biased toward a game I genuinely have enjoyed for many years, but the fluidity and satisfaction I get from hitting things in GW2 feels good. It has a nice blend of target required abilities, but lots of abilities can be cast without a target because they rely on the direction you are facing or proximity. Wildstar kind of took that to an extreme with telegraph combat but I remember it being ridiculously fun in PvP because you were going to have a bad time if you couldn't maneuver your character. Between GW2 and Wildstar I simply love the freedom to MOVE AROUND when you want/need to move.
Hmm I understand what you mean and I partially agree. If you can cast while moving you could get interrupted, though. I feel it's very hard to get it right but it's very satisfying gameplay. Elementalist for instance is the most squishy class, it can be good if played right but there are countless windows for melee classes to stun, dazze, or interrupt in any other way, plus the ele toughness/defense isn't high because of that.
I think that balance is key. Offering a pleasant gameplay while having balanced classes is for sure the most difficult thing to achieve when developing a game.
I heard a bird ♫
Feel like you're in the minority here. I think GW2 had great combat. It felt so satisfying to hit someone.
Also BDO has fantastic combat as well.
If the class is designed well enough, processing the variables going on should be enough to keep you occupied and entertained without needing to move around.
If you enjoy all that moving around type stuff, in my opinion, there are classes built around that style of play.
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die.
With collision, terrain will also be super useful.
I dont think every ability should be instant cast, darkfall combat for me will always be the best ( no class identity/diversity let it down though)
GW2 and ESO combat were both decent to me, so anything close to them or better and id be happy, I hate wow combat though.
PvP will suck balls if some classes can move around and cast but some classes can't. Either all classes should be able to move and cast or no classes should be able to move and cast. I don't mind which option occurs, but, I imagine all classes will have static skills from what I've seen so far. Static skills are fine if all classes have static skills.
But I'm fine with that.
If PvE combat isn't enjoyable, the game isn't enjoyable.
One combo in BDO is like this: e > (shift+lmb)> (Shift+x)> 4( hotbar)> space > f >(shift+rmb) > (d+rmb )> (a+rmb) > (shift+z) >(shift +f). This is about 2 seconds if I recall.
Instead of where 80% of your output is based around like 2 or 3 very long cooldown very short dps windows like WoW..
Skill spam like GW2 just makes a game feel like a cheap arcade game. Not very rewarding nor a good sense of accomplishment.
Tera/Action combat is also amazing. Especially as a tank in that game, needing to learn the bosses moves and watch the animations to know when to block and when to be using (aggro) skills and when to get ready to move where etc.
A deep, dynamic, cd-based action-combat system would be nirvana - unfortunately there only seems to be like 10 slots for skills on the UI though. Loving the rest of the game but i don't play things like GW2, ESO or Albion Online just because of the limited skill slots/combat depth and it being more spammy/arcadey because of it. Though the first 2 don't have the rest of a sandbox going for them, instead being themepark mmos.
BDO was terrible because it played like combos from a fighter game, that i personally thought was aids. I like to have all my available skills available on the screen to decide from there what to use when and make my own combos, not try to remember which combo of buttons to press after another combo of buttons just to make a specific single second attack happen, to then hold this button and press this one then that one for another single attack.
Even if there are static and non-static approaches to PvE it will be bad. I don't see how 75% Action Combat or 25% Action Combat will be static. I can see 75% Tab or 25% Tab being static. Static anything removes skill and just lets the NPC smack you and smack harder until you succeed.
I hope for many things in Raids, but, static tank and spank isn't one of those thing. If it is static verses non-static, then non-static will win 9 times out of 10 in PvP, irrespective of Hard Counters. If there are no directional attacks - one would hope you have to face your target or ridiculousness occurs, then static classes can be circled and whittled down, irrespective of Hard Counters.
Though they aren't balancing around 1vs1, 1vs1 will be steam roll for Non-static verses Static. Group situations would make this less simple but not impossible. You could AoE around your position, but, AoE might not be very viable for a 1vs1. Also, Melee often hits harder than an AoE in other games. I can't wait to test the systems and see the hybrid combat.
I heard a bird ♫
Yeah, I agree man. I thought it felt awful and unfamiliar at first until I really practiced and worked the combos into muscle memory. it does take a while to learn and associate inputs with skills on the fly. Also grinding like this can be really aids too.
Only the primary attack/auto attack works that way. None of the other skills do. I won't say GW2 is my favorite combat but it's definitely more complex and skill based past the leveling zones. Especially Elementalist which has far more skills and less defenses than most other classes.
To answer OP I'd say my preferred combat is just one that is well designed and fun to play. But more specifically I'd say for tab I prefer WoW mostly, and TERA was fun for action when I played it. In general I don't like combat that is too fast paced or too AoE based, although FFXIV took things too far - it was slow and boring IMO.
I think mobs requiring individual tactics to take down and abilities to worry about is FAR more important then whatever the combat system is. The greatest combat system in the world is only fun for so long if your never required to think before you act in combat
You spoke the wisest truth, props to you my dude.
I heard a bird ♫
since a rogue is a melee dps and caster is a ranged dps...so yeah a mage is a is a ranged rogue of sorts but then so is a ranger.
while I agree that Vermintide has great combat I think it wouldn't be possible for the servers to manage
I like freedom of movement, without animation lock (that spinning_jump_fireball_cast from 4k AoC gameplay? YUK!!!). Active block/dodge.
To be honest I love combat system from For Honor, but I imagine it wont be valid for big scale mmo. Last Oasis did something similar and it was surprisingly satisfying, but again probably wont fit in mixed action-tab-targeting plans for AoC.
I am fun of skill > gear, where you can outplay someone who is much stronger. But if he can't hit me then it doesn't matter if he can oneshot me :P
I heard a bird ♫
It had its flaws, could have felt meatier at times, but the actual core system was incredible and could have been built into whatever they needed. PvE was really incredible with the system as well, really rewarding.
*for those who haven't played it* Wildstar used a telegraph system, where all of your abilities put a light-up box/radius where it went. Yours lit up more than party members so you could differentiate your abilities. Enemies were red. Healing was green, etc. Sort of made everything skill-shots, but it didn't feel so hardcore where no one could enjoy it. It didn't feel so brain dead where there was nothing to master.
Agreed, Wildstar had perhaps the best action combat system I've experienced to date. GW2 is a strong 2nd but as someone mentioned before, I do end up feeling like I'm not doing much lol. WS was the only game I was truly immersed in the combat. Imo FF14's GCD system was EXTREMELY annoying to me, so I definitely don't like that.
Seems AoC is a bit of a Hybrid - perhaps closer to GW2; excited to see how it works.
Mechanics > Fancy combat. Agreed.
GW2 is the 2nd best for me, with less punitive mechanical mistakes and more opening to risks, which is also great. With good looking animations and skill effects, the combat feels very responsive and dynamic, mixing very good the action combat with little bit of tab-targeting. My only problem with the combat is that sometimes your attacks/skills can feel a bit 'floaty', by not having the feeling that your attacks/skills have 'weight'. Other than that, nothing actually bothers me. The evasion system is a great addition to improve combat duration by making it decision rewarding, and it having just two charges. Not like some games that you can practically do a evasion move indefinitely *cough* BDO *cough*.
FFXIV is really inspired by the other Final Fantasy games, in which you almost feel like a turn-based but an tab-targeting 'actionish' combat at the same time. It's kinda weird. It has some good aspects, such as creating a perception of how is the combat going, by having a slower pace than most MMOs, and it's easier to get your combos right too. But, to my taste, it feels pretty slow.
Honorable mentions to DCUO (I kinda like it the fighting game inspired combat system), Wildstar (RIP in my heart) and Archeage (Tab-targeting combat but fast-paced with movements and combos, plus good looking!).
I'm really interested on how Intrepid will develop the combat to reach that mentioned '75% action/tab-targeting + 25% tab-targeting/action' kinda thing. I think that the main thing that they need to address is 'Does it feels responsive?'.