As in Global Cooldown (FFXIV)? Or more hybrid (GW2)? Or highly action-oriented (TERA)?
I really don't like global cooldown at all; my ideal combat dynamics are from GW2. Even caster classes can cast/fire spells while moving and it increases the feeling of freedom in a fight. It feels much better than having to sit and cast for all spells, unless there are more insta-cast spells? Obviously strong skills require you to stand still in order to be able to cast but it's mostly free to move, the dynamic is very satisfying.
How do you guys prefer? Where do your favorite combat dynamics stem from?
I attempted to play GW2 again a while ago - I played it at launch for a few months and then stopped when there was nothing to do.
When I went back, I'd completely forgotten my account details but decided I'd just start up a new account.
Started playing the game, and the way combat worked on my Elementalist (iirc), it felt like I was botting. I'd press one button and the spell would repeat cast until the mob died.
I honestly felt like I was cheating, it was that easy and boring. I quit for a second time fairly quickly.
So yeah, not that.
Hope you dont get in any of my PvE groups because if you have 25 skills and seem to be fine spamming the weakest one, something is off.
Must say that I mostly did PvP which ofcourse forces you to.. well. not do that :P
A being can not judge light if he has never seen it, neither can he judge darkness if he never has been it
I don't care about gcd or not too much. What I hate is when encounters become over-complicated. Think of wow mythic raids - where you have a 5000 word long strategy guide, with over 10 different mechanics and abilities, adds that also have specific mechanics, and in worst case a gimmick-driven vehicle mechanic or something. All of this requiring instantaneous snap-reaction within a second or less.
In addition, mechanics are chance-driven and can overlap in a bad way.
On top of that, your class has numerous random procs as well as several burst mechanics on different timers that needs to be performed with very low margin of error.
Stuff like this frustrates me. Even though I am good at performing those things - I don't get entertainment or enjoyment out of this. Instead, it feels almost like a job, makes me tense and anxious.
I love pve for killing bosses. But the fact of the kill just isn't worth it for me lately in wow. I did enjoy a more measured and less random FFXIV raid and class mechanics though.
P.s. I hate pvp so I can't say much about it.
P.p.s. I know some people enjoy the things that I said I hate. It's a personal opinion.
@Aisa Aax That's another interesting point. I can see how PvE content can turn into that and I agree on FFXIV take on difficulty tiers. I could only reach Extreme Trials and never did Savage but the game didn't segregate me from not doing said content, neither the playerbase (NA) did. I always did stuff on party finder, no premade and it went surprisingly smooth. Hope that this game reflects that as well.
"Magic is not a tool, little one. It is a river that unites us in its current."
I think mix of cooldown types would be best. I personally enjoy spamming skills very much, but introducing some limitations is great. For instance take Tera. Its just FUN to chain dashes and blinks. Makes traversing the world much more enjoyable.
but some types of skills sharing a cooldown can be good and useful balancing tool as well. Especially the proc based ones.
Over the years I have found Dark Age of Camelot, Warhammer Online , GW2 having some of the best combat and most enjoyable PvP. Normally the fights we're about what Steven is aiming for as far as time, unless you much higher Realm Rank in DAoC where with a lucky crit you could 1 shot a mage from stealth. Archeage PvP could have been fun but everyone just upgrades weapons and you get 1 shotted, most the time it's over before it starts.
Over the years I have found Dark Age of Camelot, Warhammer Online , GW2 having some of the best combat and most enjoyable PvP. Normally the fights we're about what Steven is aiming for as far as time, unless you much higher Realm Rank in DAoC where with a lucky crit you could 1 shot a mage from stealth. Archeage PvP could have been fun but everyone just upgrades weapons and you get 1 shotted, most the time it's over before it starts.
Oh yeah, way too fast. Have you seen GW2 dedicated PvPer matches? It's kinda fast at times but some matches are really, really good and entertaining to watch. I find slow combat to not be very entertaining but then there's class design to accommodate different flows I guess.
"Magic is not a tool, little one. It is a river that unites us in its current."
Personally I would like action combat that sorta resembles dark souls in design, but with skills available on a resource that regenerates over time. Fluid movements are key and impactful damage output. The ability to stagger and be staggered I think is key to an engaging combat. Not to mention each encounter needs some depth of challenge. Take BDO for example, the moment you start off with zero knowledge of the game or any meaningful gear, you're able to aoe herds of wolves or whatever like it was nothing with numerous skills at your command.
I think a good mix of build up of learning the class, the skills you obtain and the way you maneuver your character. I also like the way dark souls has lockon/lockoff combat where if you're locked on to a target your character auto-pivots and tracks the way your enemy is moving, and when you need to lockoff and run around or even attack while locked off the enemy, you can do this as well.
Combat needs to be engaging and fun. Steven Sharif has said that it is one of the most important parts of the game and I agree. The days of watch your character stand still and "dodge" an attack should be gone! I agree with some of the earlier posters that GW2 and BDO have the best combat. There should be no auto-attack and it should take skill to kill an enemy. Yes gear should play a part as well but not being able to move just seems so old school. AOC's hybrid between action and tab targeting looks to be going in the right direction.
Hitting and enemy needs to have weight. If you swing a giant hammer and the enemy just sits there with a number popping up above its head... that makes for a very un-immersive experience. I believe that you also need to feel like a hero and a powerful one at that. I remember playing Final Fantasy 11 for a number of years and have a party of max level characters taking on some little onion creature just to get slaughtered because of one add! Not very heroic feeling...
I am a big fan of ESO's combat. Very action oriented and tabbing is optional/provides additional effects. Would prefer this game to be somewhat similar.
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AdlehydeMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I prefer the one that best suits the game.
I like the action combat system of BDO because it makes PVP a hell of a lot of fun. But it makes PVE horrible. Sure PVE is fun at first because the action looks and feels really cool, but there isn't a lot of value in party makeup, no defined roles, and the only way for PVE content to even be considered remotely challenging is that they have to add obscene amounts of CC to bosses attacks so that if you get hit by just about anything, you're gonna be screwed.
I like the GCD system of FFXIV a lot because it really allows for PVE content itself to be challenging by making boss encounters have a lot more depth. There's proper class identities with trinity system, and you can really master your job when you have a deeper understanding of how the skills flow together and what the best way to weave your oGCD skills between your GCD skills. Figuring out how to manage that while also paying attention to boss mechanics is a lot of fun. But the PVP? Eh... I mean you stand there hitting your abilities waiting for the person to die. When you compare it to action combat like BDO, it's not gonna hold up.
I think for the way this game is being designed, the hybird system is going to be the way to go. With how much emphasis they seem to put on finding dungeons and rare bosses for materials and rewards, these encounters need to be super fun. Not like, FFXIV Savage difficult with weekly lockouts or anything like that, but also, for the love of god, how many more times am I going to have to egg-timer kill Karanda in BDO by standing in one spot spamming the same abilities for 3 minutes?
But also, PVP needs to be engaging enough that if you're escorting/attacking a caravan, the engagement happens quick and you have to react fast. Don't make me stand still spamming my abilities waiting to see which of us dies first.
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WololoMember, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Pvp-wise GW2 for sure has the best combat from any game i know. From how there is both stability and stunbreaks, both high value animation locked skills to quick instacasts that often dont even need a target. Also knowing when to disengage and which fight is worth going into feels really natural.
The 'about face' option ties in great with some skills that for example; instead of leaping backward you can instantly turn around and leap backwards > turn around again and you basicly leaped foreward with the same skill. Normal damage + Condition damage and the downed state where you can get a teammate back up does add more layars on managing your health and positioning. Everybody manages they'r own health but there are these pseudo roles where ppl can become a support with theyr build. In high rank pvp in GW2 you dont even need to communicate much in voicechat besides asking if someone can hold a point or peel in a fight. Everybody knows and feels where to go depending on eachother's build and cooldowns. Now to me, that is a indication of some fluid combat and don't think any game will come close!
That being sayd, I dont like anything else besides PvP in GW2 and since Ashes will be more of the long term PvX MMO to actually lose your life over it makes more sence to have traditional rezzing and more skills on hotbar. As commented above: the combat system should fit the game!
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Over1anderMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
1. Movement during combat is a must outside of hard-channels for me, no animation locks.
2. If theres a GCD halve it of the usual go to number of modern GCD mmo's
3.Sound/Animations on crit, the FEEL of hitting big numbers on players is amazing in combat.
Started playing the game, and the way combat worked on my Elementalist (iirc), it felt like I was botting. I'd press one button and the spell would repeat cast until the mob died.
I honestly felt like I was cheating, it was that easy and boring. I quit for a second time fairly quickly.
So yeah, not that.
that is a toggle autocast, on 1 skill only, kind of the classic auto attack reimagined, and you can turn it off and spam 1111 instead for the same effect without having to feel its cheat and boring, which i agree it does if you have it toggled on
As in Global Cooldown (FFXIV)? Or more hybrid (GW2)? Or highly action-oriented (TERA)?
I really don't like global cooldown at all; my ideal combat dynamics are from GW2. Even caster classes can cast/fire spells while moving and it increases the feeling of freedom in a fight. It feels much better than having to sit and cast for all spells, unless there are more insta-cast spells? Obviously strong skills require you to stand still in order to be able to cast but it's mostly free to move, the dynamic is very satisfying.
How do you guys prefer? Where do your favorite combat dynamics stem from?
Hm highly action oriented for me. Tera is good tho I lean more towards Blade & Soul. Guild Wars 2 has a decent attempt of 'hybrid' combat - it just lacks a little bit more action elements imo but overall a very decent combat system.
Combat of different MMOs have pros and cons to them and it all comes down to personal preference - which is why I think Intrepid's decision is spot on. Through ability choice, one will be able to have either more action or tab targeted abilities - allowing the player to set the pace and play style in general. As they've stated, their job is to give players the choice and balance things.
It will certainly be interesting. I like Steven's recent take on the combat system. Despite preferring tab targeting (?), he wants action combat to work. Lately he hasn't said anything about scrapping action elements either! (compared to last year when this was stated multiple times). A great improvement. I'm very eager to test what they come up with.
Best combat for me is (was? since the recent patches kinda ruined the game) Aion, 90% tab target skills, quite fast paced, huge skill cap, lots of possibilies to outplay your opponents.
Things like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgepVCmYCtU
For me I love wows fluid combat, tho it has been pruned over the years, can’t deny for a tab target system is very engaging. I also loved ESO’s combat but I always used a controller to play. I’m Interested In testing this hybrid system of 75/25. Combat is everything to me so hopefully I like what they are doing in that department.
Best combat for me is (was? since the recent patches kinda ruined the game) Aion, 90% tab target skills, quite fast paced, huge skill cap, lots of possibilies to outplay your opponents.
WoW indeed is a very 'fluid' game - in terms of both movement and combat.
Best combat for me is (was? since the recent patches kinda ruined the game) Aion, 90% tab target skills, quite fast paced, huge skill cap, lots of possibilies to outplay your opponents.
Yes, for a tab targeted MMO, Aion actually has a decent combat system. It is fast paced tho dunno about the skill cap bit - perhaps bc I didn't play it for long
As in Global Cooldown (FFXIV)? Or more hybrid (GW2)? Or highly action-oriented (TERA)?
I hate FFXIV combat, which is sad, because I totally dig the game, but I can never play it too long because the combat irks me so much. Other cooldown based combat (like WoW, Aion, SWTOR, Rift, EQII, Everquest, etc.) never bothered me because the GCD was relatively quick.
I never played GW2, so I cannot comment on the hybrid.
I had mixed feelings about TERA. I really enjoyed the combat for physical combat. I hated all forms of casting, which sucked because I usually main a healer. I feel like healers should be on more of a GCD for single target heals, but directional heals/smart heals for AoE based.
Comments
Hope you dont get in any of my PvE groups because if you have 25 skills and seem to be fine spamming the weakest one, something is off.
Must say that I mostly did PvP which ofcourse forces you to.. well. not do that :P
A being can not judge light if he has never seen it, neither can he judge darkness if he never has been it
In addition, mechanics are chance-driven and can overlap in a bad way.
On top of that, your class has numerous random procs as well as several burst mechanics on different timers that needs to be performed with very low margin of error.
Stuff like this frustrates me. Even though I am good at performing those things - I don't get entertainment or enjoyment out of this. Instead, it feels almost like a job, makes me tense and anxious.
I love pve for killing bosses. But the fact of the kill just isn't worth it for me lately in wow. I did enjoy a more measured and less random FFXIV raid and class mechanics though.
P.s. I hate pvp so I can't say much about it.
P.p.s. I know some people enjoy the things that I said I hate. It's a personal opinion.
I heard a bird ♫
but some types of skills sharing a cooldown can be good and useful balancing tool as well. Especially the proc based ones.
Oh yeah, way too fast. Have you seen GW2 dedicated PvPer matches? It's kinda fast at times but some matches are really, really good and entertaining to watch. I find slow combat to not be very entertaining but then there's class design to accommodate different flows I guess.
I heard a bird ♫
I think a good mix of build up of learning the class, the skills you obtain and the way you maneuver your character. I also like the way dark souls has lockon/lockoff combat where if you're locked on to a target your character auto-pivots and tracks the way your enemy is moving, and when you need to lockoff and run around or even attack while locked off the enemy, you can do this as well.
Hitting and enemy needs to have weight. If you swing a giant hammer and the enemy just sits there with a number popping up above its head... that makes for a very un-immersive experience. I believe that you also need to feel like a hero and a powerful one at that. I remember playing Final Fantasy 11 for a number of years and have a party of max level characters taking on some little onion creature just to get slaughtered because of one add! Not very heroic feeling...
I like the action combat system of BDO because it makes PVP a hell of a lot of fun. But it makes PVE horrible. Sure PVE is fun at first because the action looks and feels really cool, but there isn't a lot of value in party makeup, no defined roles, and the only way for PVE content to even be considered remotely challenging is that they have to add obscene amounts of CC to bosses attacks so that if you get hit by just about anything, you're gonna be screwed.
I like the GCD system of FFXIV a lot because it really allows for PVE content itself to be challenging by making boss encounters have a lot more depth. There's proper class identities with trinity system, and you can really master your job when you have a deeper understanding of how the skills flow together and what the best way to weave your oGCD skills between your GCD skills. Figuring out how to manage that while also paying attention to boss mechanics is a lot of fun. But the PVP? Eh... I mean you stand there hitting your abilities waiting for the person to die. When you compare it to action combat like BDO, it's not gonna hold up.
I think for the way this game is being designed, the hybird system is going to be the way to go. With how much emphasis they seem to put on finding dungeons and rare bosses for materials and rewards, these encounters need to be super fun. Not like, FFXIV Savage difficult with weekly lockouts or anything like that, but also, for the love of god, how many more times am I going to have to egg-timer kill Karanda in BDO by standing in one spot spamming the same abilities for 3 minutes?
But also, PVP needs to be engaging enough that if you're escorting/attacking a caravan, the engagement happens quick and you have to react fast. Don't make me stand still spamming my abilities waiting to see which of us dies first.
The 'about face' option ties in great with some skills that for example; instead of leaping backward you can instantly turn around and leap backwards > turn around again and you basicly leaped foreward with the same skill. Normal damage + Condition damage and the downed state where you can get a teammate back up does add more layars on managing your health and positioning. Everybody manages they'r own health but there are these pseudo roles where ppl can become a support with theyr build. In high rank pvp in GW2 you dont even need to communicate much in voicechat besides asking if someone can hold a point or peel in a fight. Everybody knows and feels where to go depending on eachother's build and cooldowns. Now to me, that is a indication of some fluid combat and don't think any game will come close!
That being sayd, I dont like anything else besides PvP in GW2 and since Ashes will be more of the long term PvX MMO to actually lose your life over it makes more sence to have traditional rezzing and more skills on hotbar. As commented above: the combat system should fit the game!
2. If theres a GCD halve it of the usual go to number of modern GCD mmo's
3.Sound/Animations on crit, the FEEL of hitting big numbers on players is amazing in combat.
that is a toggle autocast, on 1 skill only, kind of the classic auto attack reimagined, and you can turn it off and spam 1111 instead for the same effect without having to feel its cheat and boring, which i agree it does if you have it toggled on
Hm highly action oriented for me. Tera is good tho I lean more towards Blade & Soul. Guild Wars 2 has a decent attempt of 'hybrid' combat - it just lacks a little bit more action elements imo but overall a very decent combat system.
Combat of different MMOs have pros and cons to them and it all comes down to personal preference - which is why I think Intrepid's decision is spot on. Through ability choice, one will be able to have either more action or tab targeted abilities - allowing the player to set the pace and play style in general. As they've stated, their job is to give players the choice and balance things.
It will certainly be interesting. I like Steven's recent take on the combat system. Despite preferring tab targeting (?), he wants action combat to work. Lately he hasn't said anything about scrapping action elements either! (compared to last year when this was stated multiple times). A great improvement. I'm very eager to test what they come up with.
Things like this
WoW indeed is a very 'fluid' game - in terms of both movement and combat.
Yes, for a tab targeted MMO, Aion actually has a decent combat system. It is fast paced tho dunno about the skill cap bit - perhaps bc I didn't play it for long
I hate FFXIV combat, which is sad, because I totally dig the game, but I can never play it too long because the combat irks me so much. Other cooldown based combat (like WoW, Aion, SWTOR, Rift, EQII, Everquest, etc.) never bothered me because the GCD was relatively quick.
I never played GW2, so I cannot comment on the hybrid.
I had mixed feelings about TERA. I really enjoyed the combat for physical combat. I hated all forms of casting, which sucked because I usually main a healer. I feel like healers should be on more of a GCD for single target heals, but directional heals/smart heals for AoE based.