They both have dwarves. All other comparisons are trivial.
Honestly, the comparison to WoW is mostly at a macro level depending on how proximate / fluent the comparing person is to AoC's details. At a high-level they are both massively multi-player, both high-fantasy, both have common activities raids, open world pvp, fenced pvp, crafting, etc.
Once folks stick around long enough to see the differences, the comparison becomes increasingly apples to oranges.
The end game PvE content in WoW is extremely good, even if everything else sucks. I'm specifically talking about raids and dungeons. The raid and dungeon design team in WoW is really good.
The majority of players are PvE oriented. If this game doesn't have sufficient, end game PvE content, then you wont have a large enough player base. And without a large enough playerbase, PvPers wont enjoy the game either. So you need PvE for a PvP game to succeed.
DAOC had plenty of player base without great PVE their dungeons were meh, the vying for nodes to take over will keep this game buzzing, although I'm not opposed to some nice dungeon crawls, and from the videos I have seen it looks like they have a few really huge ones.
Because, like it or not. WoW is a benchmark for a lot of people. It's my most played game, and by extension my most played MMO.
There are a few reasons for that. For me anyway. And I would preface this by saying it's probably not true for everyone. But I've been keeping up with Ashes related videos. Which inevitably made me watch some Asmongold. I'm not a big fan, generally speaking. But he knows his MMOs. Despite his rather cancerous chat, he does make some good points, points I've felt, but haven't really put into words until but recently (A year or so)One of which I'll outline below.
Activision Blizzard, as much as I dislike them as a company now. Do make great games.
I used to be into FPS games. I played Wolfenstein Enemy Territory (a lot) It was based on the quake 3 engine. Which meant the responsiveness and movement felt crispy. The quick turns, prones, jumps etc. Make it somewhat less realistic. But it made the game a LOT more fun to play. To the point where I simply can't play other FPS games anymore, as they feel sluggish. To make the animations work and make it look more realistic, I'm sure. But it's less fun. The only other game that felt as smooth and responsive was Overwatch. Which I enjoyed for a while.
As far as MMO's go. I started out with a sprite based game that primarily used point and click. (Ragnarok Online) I loved it, then of course I too started on WoW, and once again, the animations, the movement. It all felt so responsive and good. I have tried other mmo's since. But none of them came close to the fluidity that that game had. And even though there are plenty of games which are arguably better. Because of this I can't play them.
For better or for worse, WoW is the benchmark for MMOs
Because they are in the same genre as a Fantasy MMORPG? Seriously, if they were comparing this to Warframe which is a Scifi Grindfest would make sense to compare it.
What do WoW and AoE have in common?
Trinity System
Fantasy races with racial stats
Fantasy classes
Raids
Instances
Quests
Dungeons
Battlegrounds
PVP
PVE
etc.
I'd have to say this is dumb, of course, you can compare them. This is the worst take of "they are not the same".
Can I ask? Did you just read the title or the whole post?
I clearly mention that that WoW's features are extremely lackluster and shallow, and that because of this there is little comparisons. WoW has little in common due to it being a straight line, while Ashes gives you so many options when it comes to character development.
You keep saying that they are lackluster and shallow. But for the most part, those are minor features. The quests have gotten a lot more varied since the launch, for example. PvE is not at all lackluster and probably one of the best in the industry. Mythic raids are quite challenging.
So let's go over the list he mentioned.
Trinity.
WoW's trinity system is accomplished. They have varied tanks, healers and dps. I'll use tanks as an example. Brewmasters, they mitigate a lot of damage. So when spike damage comes in, it's easier to manage for healers. Vengeance. CD/Charge based damage mitigation skills (demon spike, firebrand etc) gets hit hard outside the dmg reduction windows and therefore gets a lot of seal healing in the form of shattered souls. Blood a two-handed tank with some excellent magical damage absorption. Lack of shield is off-set by absorb shields gained from the main resource dump ability. Protection Warrior The standard tank fantasy. Using shield to mitigate damage, and to deal damage. Protection Paladin Uses holy powers to consecrate the very ground mobs stand on, and has a variety of heals which he can target on himself or others used to vanquish the foes.
All of these have separate fantasies and playstyles. Calling them lackluster is wrong.
Fantasy Races
Well, WoW's lore isn't all that special.It's easily accessible which helps a lot. Especially for RP The races are for the most part pretty standard and un-inspiring.
Humans
Elf
Gnome
Dwarf
Troll
Orc
Undead
There are also those which are a little more uncommon. Like Pandaren and Tauren.
They have been adding a lot more races though Some of which are simply just reskins of others (Looking at you Void Elf and Blood Elf) I would not exactly call it stellar, but I wouldn't call it lackluster either. Especially if you do a comparison with Ashes.
Fantasy Classes
I touched a little on these earlier during "trinity" There are the standard DnD classes
Hunter
Warrior
Paladin
Priest
Warlock
Mage
Monk
Rogue
There's also classes that are a "little" more unique, and fit the lore of the game.
Shaman (Arguably)
Demon Hunter
Death Knight
As far as classes go. It varies per expansion. They are mostly unique from eachother. Except for the standard checklist of CC/Stun/Anti-cc/Self-heal but again that varies per expansion. Overal a pretty decent balance.
It's harder to compare this, for me. As Ashes doesn't have a lot of information on classes yet, other than the names. But as far as I understand it, the augment system that creates the "64" classes doesn't significantly change your playstyle. So for the time being I would say there's eight classes (And I REALLY want to be proven wrong)
So, lackluster? Nah. Just average.
Raids/Instances/dungeons These aren't lackluster, at all. Out of all the MMO's I've tried over the years. WoW's raids and instances are easily the most polished. They have to be, as it's sort of the main content for that game.
Battlegrounds There are some unique concepts in them. But it's mostly the same. The battlegrounds they did try and innovate in were usually not received well. But as it stands now, there's a lot of battlegrounds. Lackluster? Just meh, at most I guess. I can't name you a single MMO that does them better, though. The only other battleground I ever found amazing and unique was "Huttball" in TOR. Sadly, not the most popular one.
PvE One of the best in the business, even with just tab targetting for the most part.
PvP Used to be my cup of tea. But due to the game's fluidity. PvP is enjoyable sometimes. Depending on the expansion. Currently. It's just constant loss of control of your character. So, lackluster here. I concur.
The best of the current MMOs, in my opinion, are Runescape, and World of Warcraft. And the best Character design is Blade and Soul. So to top that a new MMO should have all the best features but at a higher standard than these 3 MMOs. Will AoC meet this criterion?
Comments
Honestly, the comparison to WoW is mostly at a macro level depending on how proximate / fluent the comparing person is to AoC's details. At a high-level they are both massively multi-player, both high-fantasy, both have common activities raids, open world pvp, fenced pvp, crafting, etc.
Once folks stick around long enough to see the differences, the comparison becomes increasingly apples to oranges.
DAOC had plenty of player base without great PVE their dungeons were meh, the vying for nodes to take over will keep this game buzzing, although I'm not opposed to some nice dungeon crawls, and from the videos I have seen it looks like they have a few really huge ones.
There are a few reasons for that. For me anyway. And I would preface this by saying it's probably not true for everyone. But I've been keeping up with Ashes related videos. Which inevitably made me watch some Asmongold. I'm not a big fan, generally speaking. But he knows his MMOs. Despite his rather cancerous chat, he does make some good points, points I've felt, but haven't really put into words until but recently (A year or so)One of which I'll outline below.
Activision Blizzard, as much as I dislike them as a company now. Do make great games.
I used to be into FPS games. I played Wolfenstein Enemy Territory (a lot) It was based on the quake 3 engine. Which meant the responsiveness and movement felt crispy. The quick turns, prones, jumps etc. Make it somewhat less realistic. But it made the game a LOT more fun to play. To the point where I simply can't play other FPS games anymore, as they feel sluggish. To make the animations work and make it look more realistic, I'm sure. But it's less fun. The only other game that felt as smooth and responsive was Overwatch. Which I enjoyed for a while.
As far as MMO's go. I started out with a sprite based game that primarily used point and click. (Ragnarok Online) I loved it, then of course I too started on WoW, and once again, the animations, the movement. It all felt so responsive and good. I have tried other mmo's since. But none of them came close to the fluidity that that game had. And even though there are plenty of games which are arguably better. Because of this I can't play them.
For better or for worse, WoW is the benchmark for MMOs
You keep saying that they are lackluster and shallow. But for the most part, those are minor features. The quests have gotten a lot more varied since the launch, for example. PvE is not at all lackluster and probably one of the best in the industry. Mythic raids are quite challenging.
So let's go over the list he mentioned.
Trinity.
WoW's trinity system is accomplished. They have varied tanks, healers and dps. I'll use tanks as an example.
Brewmasters, they mitigate a lot of damage. So when spike damage comes in, it's easier to manage for healers.
Vengeance. CD/Charge based damage mitigation skills (demon spike, firebrand etc) gets hit hard outside the dmg reduction windows and therefore gets a lot of seal healing in the form of shattered souls.
Blood a two-handed tank with some excellent magical damage absorption. Lack of shield is off-set by absorb shields gained from the main resource dump ability.
Protection Warrior The standard tank fantasy. Using shield to mitigate damage, and to deal damage.
Protection Paladin Uses holy powers to consecrate the very ground mobs stand on, and has a variety of heals which he can target on himself or others used to vanquish the foes.
All of these have separate fantasies and playstyles. Calling them lackluster is wrong.
Fantasy Races
Well, WoW's lore isn't all that special.It's easily accessible which helps a lot. Especially for RP The races are for the most part pretty standard and un-inspiring.
Humans
Elf
Gnome
Dwarf
Troll
Orc
Undead
There are also those which are a little more uncommon. Like Pandaren and Tauren.
They have been adding a lot more races though Some of which are simply just reskins of others (Looking at you Void Elf and Blood Elf) I would not exactly call it stellar, but I wouldn't call it lackluster either. Especially if you do a comparison with Ashes.
Fantasy Classes
I touched a little on these earlier during "trinity" There are the standard DnD classes
Hunter
Warrior
Paladin
Priest
Warlock
Mage
Monk
Rogue
There's also classes that are a "little" more unique, and fit the lore of the game.
Shaman (Arguably)
Demon Hunter
Death Knight
As far as classes go. It varies per expansion. They are mostly unique from eachother. Except for the standard checklist of CC/Stun/Anti-cc/Self-heal but again that varies per expansion. Overal a pretty decent balance.
It's harder to compare this, for me. As Ashes doesn't have a lot of information on classes yet, other than the names. But as far as I understand it, the augment system that creates the "64" classes doesn't significantly change your playstyle. So for the time being I would say there's eight classes (And I REALLY want to be proven wrong)
So, lackluster? Nah. Just average.
Raids/Instances/dungeons These aren't lackluster, at all. Out of all the MMO's I've tried over the years. WoW's raids and instances are easily the most polished. They have to be, as it's sort of the main content for that game.
Battlegrounds There are some unique concepts in them. But it's mostly the same. The battlegrounds they did try and innovate in were usually not received well. But as it stands now, there's a lot of battlegrounds. Lackluster? Just meh, at most I guess. I can't name you a single MMO that does them better, though. The only other battleground I ever found amazing and unique was "Huttball" in TOR. Sadly, not the most popular one.
PvE One of the best in the business, even with just tab targetting for the most part.
PvP Used to be my cup of tea. But due to the game's fluidity. PvP is enjoyable sometimes. Depending on the expansion. Currently. It's just constant loss of control of your character. So, lackluster here. I concur.