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Is the family summoning system needed?

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Comments

  • MakosiMakosi Member
    noaani wrote: »
    krojak wrote: »
    *shrugs*

    Have some faith that the developers will address any inbalance or abuse issues regarding family teleport over the course of Alpha and Beta.

    As do I, but that faith in Intrepid leads me to assume they will get rid of this idea, as anything that could be useful along these lines will be exploited far more often than it will be used for it's intended purpose.

    heh on contrary my faith in intrepid leads me to assume that they will ignore this whole thread and leave summon a family member idea. Time will tell
  • 1. If there is no fast travel, not having some way to summon your friends will definitely hurt players who want to play with friends who only have a little bit of time to play. Without it you're forcing these players down two choices: Do not stray far from friends who are offline, (anchoring them to a specific area), or have even less time to play with them due to travel requirements. I can see this being a necessity for those players. I think the summoning system should exist but if possible, make it even more limited. Maybe with a longer cooldown.

    2. As the system currently designed, perhaps not. Maybe they can think of a better implementation though. Maybe have the summon have a shared number of charges within the family, say you can only summon 2 people every x amount of hours. Sure, you can't summon your whole family, but you can definitely use it to summon the 2 that are farthest from the desired destination. And this would limit the potential of instantly gathering 64 people to only 24 (or 16 if you restrict the charges to 1).

    I'm sure there are other options the team can explore

    Just some thoughts
  • I think it should be a 12H cooldown trick for 8 members(Party size) and to have a 20-30 min PvP Debuff to it.
    Or maybe just set the teleport to a specific "Family Hall" chosen by the family leader with some days cooldown to set a new one.
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    Aren't we all sinners?
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I think it should be a 12H cooldown trick for 8 members(Party size) and to have a 20-30 min PvP Debuff to it.
    Or maybe just set the teleport to a specific "Family Hall" chosen by the family leader with some days cooldown to set a new one.

    I would refuse to be summoned at all if it equates to a PvP Debuff. I'm aware you can't be summoned unless you've stashed your certificates and materials in the first place, but, I would be unable to defend myself in a Combat Situation and seeing as Dungeons will be open world and contestable its simply not conducive to being given a PvP Debuff.
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  • WMC51WMC51 Member
    I think it should be a 12H cooldown trick for 8 members(Party size) and to have a 20-30 min PvP Debuff to it.
    Or maybe just set the teleport to a specific "Family Hall" chosen by the family leader with some days cooldown to set a new one.

    Family hall defeats the point of getting friends to you so you can play together.
  • After hearing Steven's reasoning for the family summoning system during the Ashes Pathfinder podcast, I've had a bit of time to think about it and I think that no matter what measures you put in place, it will always be open to abuse. With that in mind, I have 2 questions for everyone:

    1. Do you think Steven's concern of players with small amounts of time not being able to play with each other due to lack of fast travel is valid (i.e. is the family summoning system needed)?

    2. Assuming Steven's concerns are valid, do you think the benefits of the family summoning system outweigh the exploitation that can occur?

    There are so many threads on this issue it seems to really be bugging people. The fact that Steven has done quite a bit more research on the topic of whether this is needed or not then all of us combined remains. So giving feedback on if something should be in the game isn't up for debate and will fall on deaf ears. Instead looking for ways to make the idea prosper might grab attention.

    As I have written in many threads on this topic I agree that seeing 3 people out and about your group decides to attack and suddenly those 3 turn into 24 which is the worst possible outcome and least likely made possible by the family system is not optimal. No one wants that it's not fun gameplay I get it, you get, Steven gets it, everyone gets it. My solution to the problem is that you can only summon family members at points of interest. This would be dungeon entrances, within nodes, freeholds, world boss locations etc.. You could even place a cool summoning circle in the area for it This solution will take away the possibility of people using it to teleport family members to a very specific spot on the map where they can instantly jump into combat to prevent a gank or attack unexpecting players.

  • I think a big cooldown on the family teleport would be the easiest solution to the problem.

    You could also replace the family teleportation with some kind of "Hearthstone" like in WoW, which is unlocked once you have a certain level of housing.
  • MakinojiMakinoji Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2020
    I like the idea. Reminds me of Tera online, where you could summon your guild during a gvg and only during a gvg.

    So maybe give the summon a huge CD. Make it achievable only after meeting a crazy amount of prerequisites. limit the distance from the leader, that way it'll plop a player close to the same region but not right on top of the group.

    Personally I dont mind the idea, can help avoid gankers and trolls blocking choke points in towns or roads.
  • XiraelAcaronXiraelAcaron Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2020
    From what I understood, the main reason why this game has much less Fast Travel than other games is to inhibit the Zerg. Since this family system does not really impact that much, I am Ok with it. Having a scientific Metropolis will impact that goal more than the family system.

    I believe the heavy opposition to this is mostly due to the fact that the 'limited fast travel' was propagated early on by Intrepid without telling people why. And we got used to it. If this had not been a topic until now, everyone would simply accept that the Zerg is part of PvP gameplay and not raise an eyebrow on the family port system.

    so: 1). yes and 2.) yes
  • RyufuRyufu Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Now that you mention it... It is a strange mechanic. I personally don't think it is needed and likely to be abused, but I can see the perspective of those who are for it. I think this mechanic is meant for a very small group of people, but will likely impact everyone..
  • PlateauPlateau Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited April 2023
    .
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  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I don't like the idea of family summoning but I understand why they want it.

    I just want them to make sure they put restrictions on it so it's only used to get to friends to play with. I'd like restrictions on what you can be summoned with you as well as where you can be summoned to and from.
  • BardticBardtic Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    It is not necessary, I do think it is nice though. Some multitude of the proposed solutions to potential abuse should work well enough to make it a nice feature.

    Distance and travel should matter, but some compromises need to be made. We do want to be able to play the game, not spend half your time just running around doing nothing.

    I think the family summoning system is a very nice compromise.
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  • WMC51WMC51 Member
    Yes it is because my wife will be running around doing stupid quest or finding new pets and when I get on wanting to kill stuff I don't want to have to wait for her to find me. Kidding but not really lol.
  • daxiongmao87daxiongmao87 Member
    edited July 2020
    I just had a thought. What if the summons were shared, had a total of 8 charges, and each charge used had a higher cooldown time? Maybe this is too complex, but this thought experiment is fun.

    Charge 1: 1 hour
    Charge 2: 3 hours
    Charge 3: 8 hours
    Charge 4: 16 hours
    Charge 5: 1 day
    Charge 6: 3 days
    Charge 7: 1 week
    Charge 8: 4 weeks

    Of course, these numbers could be tweaked, but these are just examples.

    Scenario: If you have 3 friends that are not nearby from your family of 8, you can use 3 charges, the 1 hour, 3 hour, and 8 hour one. They would also reset from the shortest cooldown to longest. So in this case, your 1 hour one would return in 1 hour, even though you used 3 charges. The second one would return in 3 hours, 3rd charge 8 hours.

    So basically if you have a group of friends that are usually relatively close, but one, two, or three go pretty far, you can summon them without much of a cooldown penalty. And even so, you regain your first charge every hour anyway.

    However, to summon 8, you have two options, summon all 8 at once at the expense of a 4 week cooldown, or take 8 whole hours to summon them individually using the 1 hour charge. I suppose you could also use the first 5 charges at once, and then charge 1 3 more times within 4 hours.

    I think the biggest downside to this is how convoluted it is though. lol

  • HaraxaHaraxa Member
    Short answers:
    1. Do you think Steven's concern of players with small amounts of time not being able to play with each other due to lack of fast travel is valid (i.e. is the family summoning system needed)?

    For a player base, that is most likely not represented in such a forum at this stage of development? Yes, definetly. I know a bunch of friends who would never touch a game like "WoW classic" in which distance matters, because their play time is so limited. Especially if you log out somewhere in a world in which distance matters and just want to play with friends with less time for an hour spontanously, you need this.


    2. Assuming Steven's concerns are valid, do you think the benefits of the family summoning system outweigh the exploitation that can occur?

    I definetly could drag some players to AoC and help them to have fun with game features (like open world dungeons) they would not explore, if they had to
    • log in
    • search a group
    • then travel to the location
    • looking at the clock and realise that half of the time they have is already over

    If I had the chance to teleport them to my location and start with the content after a few minutes, though... this would really help them.

    Good night,
    Haraxa
  • DeadlyDaveDeadlyDave Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    If it was allowed every 24 hours could it be used for abuse.
    Is it that hard to travel across a map and meet up, you are playing in the same house so communication is not a problem.
    Why can't you start in the same area if playing together is an issue.

    I personally would rather not see it in the game.
    There's a science node which offers fast travel, i recommend the families level those up first :)
    I tell you what i know about Dwarf's.
    Very little
  • No. I don't think it will ever outweigh the exploitation that will occur.
    "Magic is not a tool, little one. It is a river that unites us in its current."

    I heard a bird ♫
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    1. No, not really.
    2. People will try to abuse the sh*t out of it.
  • Balrog21Balrog21 Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I don't like the idea as it goes against what they are wanting to achieve with their initial design with the world, but if they put some HEAVY restrictions on it I think a compromise can be reached, and hopefully with alpha and beta testing they can find a happy medium.
  • JubilumJubilum Member, Pioneer, Kickstarter
    Makosi wrote: »
    noaani wrote: »
    Makosi wrote: »
    Still a dork, you summon your friend and go hunt together. If every time you want to play, you have to wait for your friends then might as well not log on and go play something else together. I really hope game devs will ignore this thread and leave the summon a family member in place, albeit with more restrictions.

    There is always some gathering, crafting, looking at the market, organizing things in a freehold or even just killing mobs for certs that can be done.

    Do all that mundane stuff while you're waiting for your friends, then when they are all ready to go, you go.

    As far as I am concerned, that is what friends do.

    That's exactly what im saying if every time when you login you need to do something mundane, boring, annoying, then are you really looking forward to login in? On normal working day I don't have that much time to play and if i need to spend some portion of that time for this then will I really want to play AOC. I am sure im not alone in this....

    These are exactly the things I log in for daily. This is kind of what an mmo is all about. I spend hours organizing storage, checking market trends, processing ore, manufacturing items, testing gear, testing skill rotations. And once or twice a week I may go raid or participate in some pvp event but that is maybe 10-15% of my game time. I bet I know what you are wanting to do but wont get into it in this thread.
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