PvP Servers with lighter corruption system

Hello guys, I've been silently following ashes of creation so far and I've been very concerned about this corruption system.
Most of the Pvpve MMOs that released so far had problems with pvp and pve communities being incompatible, one wanting more freedom for pvp, while the other couldn't stand being killed even once (mostly because they lack fighting experience and don't know how to retaliate).

The best compromise (imo), is to have a part of the servers with a lighter corruption system, with a [PvP] Tag in their name.
Those servers will serve three purposes:
1/ They will have a higher concentration of people who actually want to pvp/be competitive in pvp, making it more enjoyable for pvp players to fight against people who actually knows how to put up a fight and won't be scared to fight back.
2/ It will allow intrepid to give a bit more freedom to pvp on those servers (not too much to avoid turning the server into a FFA brawl)
3/ It will reduce the amount of pvp players/tryhards on the other servers, giving the opportunity for more pve oriented players to fight people with few/less pvp experience just like them when they have to in every type of activity involving pvp (=less frustration for them)

So, now that i've explained the reasons, let's move on to what would be that "lighter" corruption system.
1/ Non combatant players get flagged as combatants if they attack a corrupted player.
2/ Corrupted players wouldn't get stat dampening due to corruption, and they wouldn't have any chance to drop a part of their gear upon death (they would still get the xp penalties, as well as the higher amount of dropped materials).
3/ A Second state of corruption would be added (let's call it heavy corruption) that would essentially be the same as the current corruption status (gear drop, stat dampening and so on). That status would trigger after you killed a certain amount of people while being already corrupted.
So, let's say you need 400 corruption points to get the heavy corruption status, Killing a non combatant of your level or higher level than you gives 100 points, killing a non combatant of lower level than you but more than half of your level gives 200 points, killing a non combatant whose level is less than half of your level gives 300 points. Dying removes 100 points. And farming XP allows you to scrap off corruption points slowly.
4/ PK counts that influences the corruption you get on future kills starts counting only when you are heavily corrupted.

The Idea behind this is that it wouldn't bring too harsh penalties for killing one or two people that you don't like or that pissed you off or any other reason, but not rewarding either so that people don't start killing non combatants for no reason, While maintaining a healthy amount of limitations so that people cannot go on a rampage either.

If you have any ideas to improve this, or if you see a flaw in my system, please post it so we can discuss this together. <3
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Comments

  • LfmrLfmr Member
    You already do not gain corruption if your enemy fights you back if I am remembering correctly, you only get corruption if your opponent does not fight back. There is no need for PvP servers if this is the case.

    Also, there is incentives for the victim to fight back, like less EXP loss, and not losing their uncompleted items. The Corruption system seems pretty fair for both PvE and PvP players.
  • KhanaKhana Member
    No, atm, if you are corrupted, non combatant players can attack you and you cannot fight back because if you do you will gain even more corruption.
  • noaaninoaani Member
    Khana wrote: »
    If you have any ideas to improve this, or if you see a flaw in my system, please post it so we can discuss this together.
    The main flaw in this system is taht Intrepid have already outright stated they will not have PvP or PvE servers - in fact, they will not have any alternate ruleset servers.

    Now, on to your actual post.

    The major thing you seem to not be taking in to account in all of this is that PvP that makes use of the corruption system is actually the 5th PvP system in Ashes, in terms of how much it should be put to use - not the first, and definately not the only.

    The most active type of PvP is likely to be the caravan system. This is open world PvP that is free from the corruption system, and actually has consequences associated with the outcome.

    The second most active type of PvP will likely be siege PvP. There will be sieges every few days on most servers, and anyone is free to join.

    The third and fourth most active types of PvP will be node and guild wars. If you are in a guild that enjoys PvP, then no doubt you will be at war with other guilds often.

    Then after that is the corruption based PvP.

    Anyone looking at all of that and saying "I want more of the corruption based PvP" is probably just someone that wants to gank others to take their meager raw materials.
  • KhanaKhana Member
    Corruption based pvp won't even exist with the current ruleset. No one will ever take the risk of losing their gear, no matter how small the chance is, once their characters are starting to be geared. No matter how much you hate someone or no matter the reason, no one will take the risk to go corrupt. The bounty hunter system will basically be a dead feature.
    Which is sad because it's actually a good feature, I love the idea of having to track a corrupted player through the woods, find him, and claim the bounty, and from the other side being hunted like a beast the moment you "commit murder", having to hide and try to take the bounty hunters one by one before they gang up on you.

    And if you read my proposal, you already know it's not worth killing someone for "their meager raw materials" or matter of fact, for anything at all besides the satisfaction to get rid of someone you don't like, since you will lose more of those materials than you took the moment you die (it's unlikely that you'll be able to clean your corruption in time through farming with the bounty hunter system sending players after you), and still have the huge experience penalty to deal with after you die.

    It's just about giving the possibility to kill someone if you have a good reason to. Because with the current ruleset, this possibility doesn't exist unless you have a disposable character on your account to kill and get corrupted with. It's like the system allows it, but the drawbacks are far too much to the point that no sane person with a good geared character will ever do it.
  • noaaninoaani Member
    Khana wrote: »
    Corruption based pvp won't even exist with the current ruleset. No one will ever take the risk of losing their gear, no matter how small the chance is, once their characters are starting to be geared.
    The chance of losing gear doesn't kick in after one kill, you need several.

  • KhanaKhana Member
    edited July 29
    noaani wrote: »
    Khana wrote: »
    Corruption based pvp won't even exist with the current ruleset. No one will ever take the risk of losing their gear, no matter how small the chance is, once their characters are starting to be geared.
    The chance of losing gear doesn't kick in after one kill, you need several.

    It does kick in after one kill. Granted, the probabillity is low, but i'd never want to gamble my gear that I finally acquired after months of tryhard over a single kill, and I doubt anyone would want to gamble it either.
  • NeurathNeurath Member
    You get get lighter corruption by being a Citizen of a Military Node. In fact, you can't even get Bounty Hunters until a Level 4 Military Node, so you could easily go corrupt before any Bounty Hunters exist. I do not see the need for Lighter Corruption Servers. We have enough issues and loopholes in the main Corruption System.

    My advice is to get into a PvP Guild and just join The Guild Wars, Guild Wars aren't part of the Flagging System and you can PvP an enemy Guild anywhere you meet them. There will also be Objectives in a Guild War.

    Not really sure what your aims are. There will be Arenas, Guild Wars, Caravans, Sieges, Naval Combat. There will be many options for PvP. I don't see why you want to expand the 'Griefer' part of the PvP Systems.
  • noaaninoaani Member
    edited July 29
    Khana wrote: »
    noaani wrote: »
    Khana wrote: »
    Corruption based pvp won't even exist with the current ruleset. No one will ever take the risk of losing their gear, no matter how small the chance is, once their characters are starting to be geared.
    The chance of losing gear doesn't kick in after one kill, you need several.

    It does kick in after one kill.
    Corruption kicks in, but not the chance to drop gear when killed. This takes either multiple equal level kills, or killing a player of significantly lower level than you.

    If you keep arguing, I'll just post a quote from Steven to make you look stupid.
  • KhanaKhana Member
    edited July 29
    noaani wrote: »
    If you keep arguing, I'll just post a quote from Steven to make you look stupid.
    Stop acting like you own the place mister know-it-all.
    Wiki says :
    LRleGsg.jpg
    It clearly means that the chance grows as your corruption grows, not that it kicks in after a certain amount of kills.
    I asked the same on discord and people confirmed that the chance exists after 1 kill, despite being very low.
    So either you misunderstood, or most of the people are wrong including the wiki, in that case please post the quote so that everyone can get the correct information.
  • NeurathNeurath Member
    The Wiki doesn't hold all information. It is a player made site, some players prefer to keep information secret until they can use the information for personal props. It would be nice to have a perfect Wiki instead of having to repeat the same issues over and over again. I don't hold the Wiki to such standards though.

    We have Full Loot PvPers in the Community. Full Loot PvPers won't mind the corruption system at all. I'm not saying all Full Loot PvPers will 'grief' but there are definitely players who won't mind shedding equipment. It is a moot point though because everyone will have different reasons for going corrupted in the first place.

    I've explained elsewhere most of the PvPers are on the discord. The PvPers understand the PvP Systems very well. I still wouldn't support your request to make Lighter Corruption...I don't understand the purpose?
  • noaaninoaani Member
    Neurath wrote: »
    The Wiki doesn't hold all information.

    Indeed, and after checking, it seem the interview I was thinking of for the OP isn't referenced at all on the wiki - none of the topics bought up are. Suits me just fine though, with only double digit views of the interviews VoD, there is information in there that only a handful of people will know going in to alpha (and perhaps beta with some of it).
    Khana wrote: »
    noaani wrote: »
    If you keep arguing, I'll just post a quote from Steven to make you look stupid.
    Stop acting like you own the place mister know-it-all.
    *sarcastic monotone*

    Yes, you are right, you have all the information on the game at your fingertips.

    What was I thinking.

    */sarcastic monotone*

    Anyone think I fooled him?
  • KhanaKhana Member
    edited July 29
    I'm still waiting for that quote, it would be more constructive than your sarcastic replies.
    Or maybe show that VoD you're talking about. What's the point hiding public information from the players right now, we're 2 years away from launch, you wont get any benefit from it.
    Neurath wrote: »
    We have Full Loot PvPers in the Community. Full Loot PvPers won't mind the corruption system at all. I'm not saying all Full Loot PvPers will 'grief' but there are definitely players who won't mind shedding equipment. It is a moot point though because everyone will have different reasons for going corrupted in the first place.

    I've explained elsewhere most of the PvPers are on the discord. The PvPers understand the PvP Systems very well. I still wouldn't support your request to make Lighter Corruption...I don't understand the purpose?

    Full loot pvpers played games where gear doesn't hold too much value. There is no way to get full pvp loot in a game where you might take months to grind a legendary piece of equipment. Full loot pvp is only possible if the whole game revolves around it.
  • noaaninoaani Member
    Khana wrote: »
    I'm still waiting for that quote, it would be more constructive than your sarcastic replies.
    Or maybe show that VoD you're talking about. What's the point hiding public information from the players right now, we're 2 years away from launch, you wont get any benefit from it.

    As I said, you have all the information at your fingertips already.

    You are only the second person on these forums that I've ever conceded to, enjoy it!
  • The corruption system is meant to be a punishment for rampant PK-ing. It is yet to be tested and balanced.

    Currently nobody knows how much corruption it gives, what it takes to get removed, how long it takes and so on. If it is too harsh it will get adjusted, if it's not punishing enough it will get a boost.

    A version of the corruption system that allows you to grief other players will most probably ruin these servers because nobody wants to be camped and tea bagged by a 40 man raid.

    If you engage in meaningful PvP, of which there will be plenty, you won't have issues with the system. It's like reducing a prison sentence for murder from 20 years to 1 year.
  • KhanaKhana Member
    edited July 29
    You instantly jump from "allow 1 or 2 kills before you start dropping gear" to "being camped and tea bagged by a 40man zerg"
    First of all, a proper corruption system wouldn't allow you to team with anyone, you wouldn't receive any heals from other players and would take damage from the aoes of every other corrupted players.
    Plus, every player of that 40man zerg would stack up corruption to unholy amounts to the point where their characters would be completely unplayeable and drop all their gear, so I hardly see why would a zerg even want to camp a location or even how they would be able to do it for a significant amount of time since the stats dampening will be piling up with each kill.
  • Khana wrote: »
    Corruption based PVP won't even exist with the current ruleset. No one will ever take the risk of losing their gear, no matter how small the chance is, once their characters are starting to be geared. No matter how much you hate someone or no matter the reason, no one will take the risk to go corrupt. The bounty hunter system will basically be a dead feature..

    I don't agree with this I think there will be plenty of people going corrupt for giggles and you seem to be under the impression that they wouldn't just farm a different set of gear that is less valuable and easily replaceable specifically for that reason. if the gear they have on is not their main gear and they have an empty inventory they are really only committing the time it would take to grind out their XP debt when going corrupted. Im not sure how fast you will be able to grind out that XP debt maybe there are some really good spots for that who knows but people will do it and the skilled players will make it work where unskilled players will fail. I firmly believe there will be plenty of bounties to go after it really depends if the reward for chasing someone down will be worth it. That will decide if the bounty hunter system will be dead.
  • KhanaKhana Member
    B1uefalc0n wrote: »
    I don't agree with this I think there will be plenty of people going corrupt for giggles and you seem to be under the impression that they wouldn't just farm a different set of gear that is less valuable and easily replaceable specifically for that reason.
    I guess if you just want to randomly kill a guy that works, but I was thinking about killing someone that you don't like for exemple because he's stealing your mobs if he has a class with more dps/burst than yours or any other reason that would make you want to kill that specific guy in front of you at a given time, if the world is really as steven said and distance really matters, I doubt that you'd walk back to town, just to change your whole gear, then walk all the way back to the spot and hope you find him again just to kill him once, if distance matters then it is gonna be very unlikely that you can pull that off.
  • Wait, wait.. Do you want a lighter version or not?

    As i said, we don't know how harsh the system is now.

    How much lighter do you want to make it that it promotes more PvP but doesn't promote griefing? I am fairly positive you will be able to party up before you get corruption. Corruption is given on kill, not on damage dealt, so technically only 1 person needs to kill in a 40 man raid.

    It's a very fine line they'd need to walk on if they would want to make servers with 'corruption lite' and i don't really see the point.
  • KhanaKhana Member
    edited July 29
    What I want is being able to kill someone who pissed me off on the fly once in a while without risking losing my gear even if the said guy decides to not retaliate to give me corruption.
    And being able to fight back if non corrupted players decide to attack me while i'm trying to get rid of my corruption.
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    Don't use gear you don't want to lose.
  • EliasElias Member
    Khana wrote: »
    What I want is being able to kill someone who pissed me off on the fly once in a while without risking losing my gear even if the said guy decides to not retaliate to give me corruption.
    And being able to fight back if non corrupted players decide to attack me while I'm trying to get rid of my corruption.

    Open world PVP has consequences, it is simple as that. There will be PLENTY of opportunities for people to get revenge in the form of the node & castle sieges, as well as guild wars. I think you are way too focused on open world PVP. I do not agree there needs to be specific servers just to cater to 1 small type of PVP.
  • As mentioned before, the corruption system is less of a gameplay mechanic and more of an anti-griefing mechanic. It's not designed as a "place for bad guys," but it's designed to protect from ganking lowbies and noncombatants.

    You are free to pvp against combatants. You should only want to reduce or diminish the corruption system if you want to kill lowbies and non-pvpers, which Intrepid is against.
  • Wouldn't it just be much simpler to make an alt of the same class, equip it with relatively decent gear (not your main's), and be permanently corrupt to fight players? Sure it'll take like another month+ of grinding an alt but at least it far less intrusive than messing with the entire corruption system of which hasn't been fully revealed or tested.

    it's still fine to theorize how the current system can be worked out, but there isn't enough information for such conclusive answers or drastic changes.
  • Reign118Reign118 Member
    I think the entire issue here is that you are looking at this game as PvE or PvP. It is intended to be a PvX. A full mix. The entire games economy, progression system, and content is based on a balance of all aspects of an MMO(PvP, PvE and Crafting). You can't have a server that is focused on one of the three without inbalancing the others and ruining the game.
  • KhanaKhana Member
    edited July 29
    We all know the kind of players that would get PKed the most are the "all talk no balls" type. Allowing to get one or two kills before dropping gear is not gonna affect anyone unless you're pissing of someone.
    I dont think people would gain any pleasure from killing a guy randomly walking next to them, considering they will lose 4x more than what they will gain.
  • GodsThesisGodsThesis Member
    edited July 29
    Khana wrote: »
    We all know the kind of players that would get PKed the most are the "all talk no balls" type. Allowing to get one or two kills before dropping gear is not gonna affect anyone unless you're pissing of someone.
    I dont think people would gain any pleasure from killing a guy randomly walking next to them, considering they will lose 4x more than what they will gain.

    Ya bet your sweet buns that ya boy gonna kill a random guy if I think I can get away with it. I gotta assert my dominance.

    But again if you want PvP pleasure there are plenty of other systems that will be in the game for that with far better rewards that can revolve around more than yourself. The corruption system from what I understand of it, is not supposed to be a great time and more of a deterrent.

    Also, in my experience, the people that get killed the most in PvP has nothing to do with their personality, just their PvP skill and knowledge, or the lack thereof.
  • CaerylCaeryl Member
    edited July 29
    There will not be separate PvP servers nor will there be separate PvE servers. Corruption is a penalty, it’s not something they want people to get. If you’re constantly getting corruption, you are playing in a way Intrepid doesn’t want you to and are probably ruining the experience for other players for not much reason.

    Players should initiate PvP over valuable resources, things people want to fight back over. It’s only when you vastly out level someone, zerg someone down, or grief PvP on nothing of value that you will start getting corruption.
  • KhanaKhana Member
    Again you're missing the point completely, who's talking about getting corruption constantly? The main concern here is that you shouldn't drop gear for killing just one player, and you should be able to defend yourself from non combatants that attack you once you are corrupted without worsening the corruption.
  • noaaninoaani Member
    edited July 29
    Khana wrote: »
    Again you're missing the point completely, who's talking about getting corruption constantly? The main concern here is that you shouldn't drop gear for killing just one player, and you should be able to defend yourself from non combatants that attack you once you are corrupted without worsening the corruption.

    If you get corruption and a non-combatant attacks you, let them kill you.

    That way, your corruption issue is gone. They are doing you a favor.
  • CaerylCaeryl Member
    Khana wrote: »
    Again you're missing the point completely, who's talking about getting corruption constantly? The main concern here is that you shouldn't drop gear for killing just one player, and you should be able to defend yourself from non combatants that attack you once you are corrupted without worsening the corruption.

    You aren’t going to be dropping gear from one PK unless you are absurdly, unbelievably unlucky. I doubt if the odds for such a low corruption amount would even be 1% drop chance, and if someone claimed to have lost gear after “just one kill” I for one wouldn’t believe them.
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