Is there a need for somekind of statistical/breakdown tools, e.g., DMG meters in the game?

Asri

Those who want to beat the hardest bosses will probably have to video their runs and review it together as a team for mistakes, mechanics, wins, etc. That will tell you a lot more about your performance together than raw metrics.

*small rant incoming*

I think comparison is the thief of joy. Many if not all hardcore PVE raiders will disagree with me, but they will have DPS meters on the down low anyway.

I feel the wikification of games, and the non-stop stream of content creation on how-to and best-builds have eliminated a lot of the FUN of games, where you learn how to do things by trial and error, alone or as a team. Players grind up meta characters to max level, grind up the meta gear and rush to end game, then complain about content drought after depriving themselves of all the content along the way. Finally they deprive themselves of people to play with by constantly measuring who is elite enough for them to spend time with.

Competitive MMO is kind of an oxymoron, there are too many "win" conditions.

Genaro

As much as DPS meters helps the player, with a quantitative numerical measurement, to improve their skills rotation, combos, etc., it also facilitates the game to gravitate to use optimization as a rule, not as a tool.

META and min-maxing are inevitable. They will always exists, rather you like it or not. But these are suppose serve as tools, not as rules. When you have the extreme optimization as a rule, you just funnels down just a couple of combinations, throwing in the garbage all of the other possible interesting combinations that the game has, with a little chance to make a comeback once the META changes. And that's what 'hardcore' PvE players have been doing in the past years to speedrun the endgame content, in some of the most popular MMORPGs. When you have a high difficulty goal like that, it's fair to try to improve every minimal detail that can help you to get to your goal, so these people who embrace this ideal must have to give up in personal preference in order to reach the objective. What is not fair is when you create a toxic culture around it, in which you push this same behavior to all of your player base, when most of it are just trying to have fun in the game, not accomplishing something as difficult. So the 'normal' people who really likes to play something interesting or/and unique, feel pressured to give up their own preference playstyle just so they can have a place in a group for they being able to play some content, instead of playing the game in a 'normal' pace but actually enjoying doing it with your choice.

I'm not saying that without a DPS meter people won't be able to tell which class combinations, skills combos, etc., is the best, but it will certainly slows down the process of creating a META, by having just a qualitative measurement. Plus, as Ashes will be a new game in the neighbourhood, it will take a long time to stabilish a META, since the game have several multiple combinations possible, with many variables to consider, and even more difficult if the devs keep bringing balance patchs and new content.

Caeryl

CaptainChuck wrote: »

Astrobinary wrote: »

There are a ton of reasons why people want and don't want meters, I am against adding damage meters but I really like your idea. Instead of just adding a very crude meter, have it integrated into the system of AoC. For example, having another artisan class where you can become a master of gathering this information. As you slowly progress the artisan class you unlock more detailed information based on the encounter that can be then shared with others in game.

Nah that would be a bad profession. Information isn't as valuable as physical items.

Information is way more valuable than a few physical items.

Combat logs should be a standard in every game that touts a competitive PvE experience.

TheLegend27

CaptainChuck wrote: »

Astrobinary wrote: »

There are a ton of reasons why people want and don't want meters, I am against adding damage meters but I really like your idea. Instead of just adding a very crude meter, have it integrated into the system of AoC. For example, having another artisan class where you can become a master of gathering this information. As you slowly progress the artisan class you unlock more detailed information based on the encounter that can be then shared with others in game.

Nah that would be a bad profession. Information isn't as valuable as physical items.

Would be interesting if they found a way to sell that information, or embed it into the economy some how. Information tends to be more valuable that physical items (well, IRL).

TheLegend27

Ryufu wrote: »

This game is more so an experience than a competition with your peers. Also, I think we need to be encouraging people to be good teammates, not just good players. Sure, you could look at a combat log and see Player X did 1k damage more than Player Y, but Player X took more damage and ignored an important mechanic that could have wiped the raid. I would take Player Y over Player X any day.

If you seek to improve yourself, you have professions to do... expanding the node to do... exploring the world! This is a new world where there are no Wiki pages that will tell you how to complete a quest or find a specific item. You are able to discover something no one has before. You will always have something to do. Starting a game with your thoughts on the end-game is not the way to go and it will not happen for years anyway.

Where I do agree with you, I feel like everyone has their own take on what "this game is" to them. And they're entitled to such. So to those who have their thoughts on end-game, that's not a bad thing and (imo) much the same "the way to go" as focusing on the progression and character improvement.

I share your sentiments though . Just to each their own.