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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Dodging/Evading. Stat or Action based?
Riegnar
Member
I haven't written a forum post in a while so excuse any poor formatting.
Let me also start by saying that I'm a new follower & fan of the project, and I've tried to inform myself to the best of my ability before creating this post.
The MMOs that I played and have spent a considerable amount of time on are Rappelz ( a lesser known MMO during the era of MMOs), Tera Online, and Guild Wars 2. I'll be using those as a point of reference whilst making my point.
From what I've gathered, evading attacks, be it PvE or PvP is going to be stat based, as I've experienced playing Rappelz. You get to stack up on Agility and evade player or mob attacks while standing still. I don't recall having an issue with that system at the time, but i might be mistaken as that was 10 years ago.
Looking back at it now after having played Tera Online and Guild Wars 2, I can see a couple of issues with it.
- Being totally helpless in PvP against higher leveled characters as they have higher level stats, and better gear, and therefor making all of your attacks miss, despite the possibility of you being the more "skilled" player.
- Yes, you do have the possibility of going for some Dexterity stat to "counter" Agility, but that's only the case given prior knowledge of your enemies' stats. However, you can imagine the abuse of Agility in large, well coordinated PvP.
- Not that I'm against end game gear or the struggle and therefor the joy experienced upon achieving it, BUT having evading be stat based limits players' skill ceiling primarily to memorizing skill rotations. Gear will effectively be almost the only status quota to be met when joining any competitive PvX.
- Not a fact, but more of an opinion: Action based dodging is more fun, and more engaging.
I think I had more on my mind to say before I started typing, but given that i haven't slept all day I could've forgotten a couple of points which I might edit in later on.
Closing with a couple of questions;
- Is dodging/evading stat based as I've concluded?
- ( @mods&devs ) If Yes, is that set in stone ?
- What is your opinion on both variants given that you've played both ?
That would be it for now, Thank you for reading and I hope i didn't create a duplicate.
Let me also start by saying that I'm a new follower & fan of the project, and I've tried to inform myself to the best of my ability before creating this post.
The MMOs that I played and have spent a considerable amount of time on are Rappelz ( a lesser known MMO during the era of MMOs), Tera Online, and Guild Wars 2. I'll be using those as a point of reference whilst making my point.
From what I've gathered, evading attacks, be it PvE or PvP is going to be stat based, as I've experienced playing Rappelz. You get to stack up on Agility and evade player or mob attacks while standing still. I don't recall having an issue with that system at the time, but i might be mistaken as that was 10 years ago.
Looking back at it now after having played Tera Online and Guild Wars 2, I can see a couple of issues with it.
- Being totally helpless in PvP against higher leveled characters as they have higher level stats, and better gear, and therefor making all of your attacks miss, despite the possibility of you being the more "skilled" player.
- Yes, you do have the possibility of going for some Dexterity stat to "counter" Agility, but that's only the case given prior knowledge of your enemies' stats. However, you can imagine the abuse of Agility in large, well coordinated PvP.
- Not that I'm against end game gear or the struggle and therefor the joy experienced upon achieving it, BUT having evading be stat based limits players' skill ceiling primarily to memorizing skill rotations. Gear will effectively be almost the only status quota to be met when joining any competitive PvX.
- Not a fact, but more of an opinion: Action based dodging is more fun, and more engaging.
I think I had more on my mind to say before I started typing, but given that i haven't slept all day I could've forgotten a couple of points which I might edit in later on.
Closing with a couple of questions;
- Is dodging/evading stat based as I've concluded?
- ( @mods&devs ) If Yes, is that set in stone ?
- What is your opinion on both variants given that you've played both ?
That would be it for now, Thank you for reading and I hope i didn't create a duplicate.
1
Comments
You don't have to worry about your attacks missing if you pick mostly action based skills - as they land regardless of evade stats.
Gear will be extremely important but they want skill to matter the most (a skilled 35-40 level player having a chance against a level 50 but it is said to get extremely hard below 35)
They have said this? I have not seen it. I'm terribly worried gear is going to be over the top deciding factor in out comes of fights.
Steven, in his interview with Asmongold, said that gear will decide around 40-50% of the diff in power. The rest will be decided by level and combat skill.
Watch at 54:00.
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die.
I heard a bird ♫
Also, how can you effectively tell that the incoming attack is action or "tab/autotarget" based ? How do you know if you should stand still and let y our stats handle it or potentially waste a dodge ability on a tab skill ?
He said skill, but meant skill points. This is a concern for me. The only time "skill" was mentioned was as an ancillary benefit to getting gear.
I am not clear about the evasion stat, but I pretty sure it will exist just like a blocking stat will. FYI, active blocking may also be a thing at the same time.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Skills#Active_blocking
Also, "Dodge rolling type skills will be housed in the action skill sets of agile classes such as Rogues or Fighters.[72]"
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Active_skills
Dude with better gear low risk of losing wins more has more fun. Dude with crap gear high risk of loss and wont be having fun. I know I will get no sympathy as PvP is the minority. just sucks knowing the end game will probably be as frustrating as all the Korean mmo's out there. Not to say this game wont be a lot of fun up to end game establishment while you can stay close to the power curve. Once it takes off so does the fun.
I do belive AoC will be much better dealing with exploiters so the end game power house guilds might not be as stagnant as they are in BDO.