Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
A vast majority of loot and items in the game is tradeable. The guild that "owns" that dungeon might be amassing the loot to resell to players for profit.
Players that don't like this might commission another guild or mercenary group to help them clear the dungeon of the guild.
You WILL experience situations where another player has altered your options for playing the game and you WILL have to find your OWN ways of getting around this or solving the problem presented to you.
You could choose to get help.
You could choose to let yourself be abused and not do anything about it. That's a choice too.
You could choose to level with guild groups, where you'll be relatively safer. Also an option.
There's plenty of ways you can handle it. Going into a PvX game expecting to not get killed by others... I don't think it's a very realistic outlook. If that's a serious concern of yours, it's worth considering a title less based around player conflict. I don't mean this as a barb or an insult, but if you genuinely dislike these types of interactions, this game may not be for you.
Protect yourself and adapt, or don't. Choose.
Thinning out the weaker population? i like it. But then again im a PvP enthusiast
All kidding aside- like i mentioned above- this will be a good opportunity for PvE focused players to experience more PvP. NOTHING in gaming will get your adrenalin going like a good/ meaningful PvP fight.
Its one thing to be good at the class you play, PvP is all about understanding the class your fighting, understanding what theyre trying to do and how/when to counter them. Its really not that hard once you know what to do
I completely understand the options. What I don't understand is why they protect you from dying vs not protecting you from being as good as dead, unable to do anything. Why is it they draw the line there? They deem getting killed a lot as bad because people will not like the game enough to quit or it isn't fun to die a bunch? It also isn't fun to not be able to get xp and loot if someone decides they don't want you to.
It would at least make sense to give the tagger the loot, so the griefer can't just wait till they see what you're fighting, and one shot it so you get like 5% of the xp and no loot. Do that like 5 times and it's like you killed me, I may as well have been dead that whole time, because I have gotten nothing for an equivalent playtime.
The system works when you're equal levels and within reasonable gear levels. But people can still ruin lower level players game time without ganking, that's all I'm saying. And if they think getting ganked is frustrating enough to curb it with systems built in, then they should do something about these scenarios I'm laying out, because they are equally frustrating, and the player has the exact same options as if they were being killed.
If you choose not to defend you open them up to be attacked by someone who may fight for you. If they are in a large group they won the contest for the space. You can grief them by throwing yourself at them raising their corruption at the cost of your xp and time. They can in turn kill you lowering their loot drops and player stats as well as risking their gear if someone stronger comes by to contest the spot.
Both sides pvp'r and pve'r can view the other as the bad griefer. The current system favors the non combatant as you can attack the corrupted player with out being a combatant. Constantly increasing his chances to lose his gear and lowering his stats till you eventually may win or a bounty hunter comes.
However, what I've come to terms with is that if I don't have enough time to invest in a game, AoC being one of them, I won't be able to compete with those who do.
So I believe you will not find the answer you're looking for, instead you'll have to deal with it. If you're a casual player, you simply won't be safe in open world dungeons, only instanced ones.
Although I'd love to say I should be able to accomplish most of what the game has to offer, it's unfair to those people that are able to no life the game not be able to contest me.
This will be a hardcore game, the difference is that when we last played hardcore MMOs, we probably didn't have a job, family, obligations - now we do.
A bunch of low level characters should be able to whittle down a higher level one, or one insane dude should be able to at least make him miserable.
A number of options have been discussed and offered, Grails. Meaningful choices does not mean that you'll always have an ideal choice, or even one you'll like. You can always walk away if it's not worth your trouble.
The dude doesn't even have to out level you or out gear you he only has to do 40% of the damage to make your life miserable. Even if you can kill him if he doesn't flag he can now grief the poop out of you. Against this sort of toxic player there is nothing you can do but move somewhere else.
The only solution I see is if you want to kill any player you have to be a combatant . It shouldn't matter if you are fighting a corrupted player or not. So at least in this situation the more powerful player can come out on top.
I Know that is not the answer you want to hear.
But as Niraada said
Protect yourself and adapt, or don't. Choose.
This is an adapt situation for PvP'rs and PvE'rs where unfortunately the Griefer wins.
Untrue! You can choose to kill them.
Killing a single equal-or-higher levelled NC on it's own should not make you corrupted, but simply raise your corruption level.
Incidentally, gaining XP from killing mobs lowers your corruption level. Just kill them and move on with your day.
If you can't accept that someone stronger than you can (and at some point likely will) come along and impact your experience, forcing you to make some tough choices, then PvX probably isn't something that resonates with you.
@grails simply move somewhere else or ask for an invite
This isn't a game where you will be rewarded no matter what choice you make. This isn't a game where you're going to be kept safe while letting you feel like you're winning. I suggest looking at the early history of Ultima Online, or Lineage 2 that Steven loves to reference.
People are going to come along and try to ruin your day, or just do something that you don't like. The interesting bit is how you choose to handle that. Player conflict is integral to this game. No one else is going to step in and say "Hey, that's not fair."
How you choose to handle your business is on you. Own it.
If you were 8 lvls above a raid boss in lineage 2 you got raid cursed if you touched the boss, which petrified you for 5 minutes. So running in and stealing lowbie bosses weren't really a thing.
Pking the players doing a lowbie boss would be insanity, for griefing purposes sure, if you run around scouting lowbie areas for someone to grief, only to have to deal with that karma without any high level mobs nearby.
I assume that would be hard without the many teleport options L2 had to get to some "safe" high level zone to grind that corruption away for a while.
This makes me slightly curious as to how the teleport to a family member will work though, might be restricted for corrupted players and/or during combat (dealt/taken damage in the last ~30 seconds?).
You don't see that every day.
Moving on.
@Grails
Purely on the problem of high level players stealing the boss kills from lower leveled players:
(even though that was not what the original post was about -> the original post was using strawmens and fearmongering (based on uninformed opinions) to change game system that might be unpleasant for the OP)
About the boss stealing:
L2 had a system in place for that as well. Whenever a higher level player attacked a raidboss, that was several bosses below him, he would in turn get raid cursed. This raid curse essentially prevented you from doing anything for the next 2 (or 5?) minutes. This way, the moment a high level attacked the boss they'd essentially turn to stone, which was unpurgable.
https://l2db.info/high-five/skills/4515
Which solves the problem in your example. If it's just a stronger guild on the same level... then you will be shit out of luck. However, that's not griefing, that's the boss going to the guild/players that deserve it more.
Intrepid hasn't mentioned anything similar to a raid curse yet. However, as i have mentioned before, I'll trust them to understand that just picking a system and implementing it into your game without taking a look at the surrounding systems is not a good idea. I'd assume that they will consider something like the L2 system, if your issue becomes a problem.
@Grails The main thing I can tell you is that bosses in particular are not necessary for progression. The ones that are, are instanced, so no griefing can take place.
Otherwise, yes, asking for help or going somewhere else may be your only realistic options. The system does want you to seek out this help from other players and reward you for building a network of friends and guildmates to call on for exactly these kinds of situations.
Keep in mind that, with how the world is structured, low level players and high level players will be in constant contact. Higher rank nodes offer options to the full range of players, so it will be a lot less likely for a bunch of lowbies to be isolated in one part of the world, where one single max level griefer can unbalance the entire region. If things look tough, look for the closest big city and try to talk to some people, you'll probably find someone who will help (at least for a favour). I would.
Its a solution that works gameplay wise. Which is a primary requirement for the game. The "logic" behind it, is
tertiary at best in terms of importance.
Logic and realism can hardly be an argument in a game like this, as most aspects of the game will have logical flaws.
Explain it how ever you want. It could be one of the old corrupted gods protecting his disciples from the most powerful adventurers through a blessing. That's actually how L2 explained it lore-wise:
"The curse of the Raid Boss guardian spirit temporarily petrifies the target, immobilizing it like a stone. "
so they get a dull but working solution or a more interesting which works as well.
Either way, the fear of high level raid groups stealing away all the low level bosses is unwarranted.
If the corruption system isn't enough deterrent then you should calibrate to the point where it is.
Convoluting the game with badly working systems instead of growing one to the point where it does what it should be supposed to be doing doesn't improve the situation. On the contrary, it creates more room for abuse.
Also, if you had ever played Lineage 2, you'd know that the corruption (karma) system in itself worked just fine, apart from a few minor problems. It did work so well, that people didn't flag and kill you for stealing their spawn, they instead tried to grief you for tagging mechanics and poking you to mid-low health repeatedly, withhout ever going for the kill.
Also, holding a place hostage wasn't really a thing that was prevented through the Karma system. As people declared guild wars on the players's guild, who dared venture into their farming grounds. Which is exactly the type of meaningful pvp interactions Intrepid is looking for.
You don't like a guild permanently occupying a farming spot? Go band together with other guilds and kick them out by force.
Disliking an integral system of the game's design is okay. That doesn't mean that making up artificial problems in an attempt to stir up shit is the right way to go about them.
Ashes of Creation is supposed to be a PvX system at its core. The entire game is designed around that principle. If you can't stand the notion of any PvP befalling you within the game, then it might just not be the game for you.
If you can't stand the notion of another player doing something you don't like, then true PvX MMORPGs might just not be the type of game for you. Good thing, that there are a lot of abominations like WoW, that protect you from ever having to deal with that.
Posts like these always start through "casual PvE players", "players that look at pvp with disdain" and players that can't cope with something going against them through the will of another player. Changing the calibration of the system to create a space of different kinds of players is fine. Trying to overthrow the fundamental principles behind the game because you don't like them is not.
Half the problem won't just be solving the dungeon, it will be solving other players too.
You can find this and the source on the dungeon section of the wiki
So competing over areas in a dungeon is an intended part of the game.
I think something that needs to be mentioned with this is the number of different progression paths and things they intend to allow you to do in the game. I like to bring this up to make sure people are aware that they shouldn't be stuck in a position where there is nothing they can do because they don't want to compete.
Not only do you not need to grind a spot to get loot from it because gear doesn't bind and you can buy it on the market but there are also other forms of progression besides your adventure class level and gear. You can level your religion, social organizations, nodes, crafting, as well as others that will probably come down the future. We haven't heard anything in a while but there was mention of some kind of "seaman" class that would allow you to get better at boating.
The map will also be huge and while it's hard to say for certain atm, there should be less popular, less contested areas around the map for you to find and farm, hopefully with its own benefits. With the cert system that was recently announced, it will at least be profitable.
Except, Intrepid is stepping in and saying this is not fair. When a more powerful player is killing low level players. What I've said like 5 times and not been addressed, when they can lord their power over you WITHOUT killing you, you as a low level player are put into stasis on the game, LIKE BEING KILLED. You are in the same situation as if they are killing you, with the exact same options to get out of it. So why is it ok for that to happen, but not ok to kill you outright! At least if they kill you, you're dead once, you respawn somewhere they don't know, and can't necessarily keep killing you.
You're asking the same question again and again, hoping for what? A mechanic to protect you from the conflict that is what drives the game?
If it's a guild, declare a guild war and you can attack them corruption free. Simple.
If it's not a guild, and they're not attacking you, just move on or attack them. Also pretty simple. If they fight back, they flag and then you can run at them until one of you blinks.
Again. Not liking your options doesn't mean they don't exist.
If you're not prepared to figure out and personally deal with conflicts with other players, conflicts which will be inherently unfair in many possible ways, then why play a game based around it?
Maybe I and everyone else has been misreading what you're asking, but the only problem I can see in there is "They're stronger than me so I can't do anything." which is patently untrue.