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Is it possible to stop third party boosting services?
Marzzo
Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
*Let me be clear, AoC will NOT offer any form of P2W, however, third party groups will offer boosting services for AoC, effectivly meaning that there is a form of "pay real money to advance/win in the game". Also, I am not talking about using in game currency for different advantages, I am talking about using IRL money for ingame services and advantages. The point of this thread is, how can we effectivly combat this?"
Unfortunatly, ashes of creation will attract third party boosting services that have the potential to ruin the experience for a lot of players. This is not a P2W system from IS, but nonetheless a way to pay real money for ingame advantages. But this type of pay to get advatages will be a part of this game. And based on current systems, there is nothing to stop it.
Any player with some money can easily contact pro players and guilds on discord or third party sites for boosts. Not in the form of gold or items, since that is easy to stop for large scale, but in the form of raid spots and team spots in arena.
If I want the best gear in the game, Ill simply contact a booster guild on their own platform (discord/website) and pay them a certain amount of money for a raid spot and loot priority. Effectivly giving me the ability to pay IRL money to get stuff in game that gives me an advantage.
This works in PvP too. Every season, ill just pay any top arena team on their platform and they will invite me to their arena team ingame. They will boost me as much as I can pay for.
I am afraid this will also sometimes be used in EXTREME circumstances. For example, I could pay a group of player to support me in taking down nodes and guild castles I dont like. Obviously, this wont be that common, but could potentially ruin the experience for a server to a certain degree.
I do understand this MAY be a small issue in AoC, but this is NOT a small issue in any other popular MMO today. In fact, this a significant problem for WoW for example, where almost every achivment in the game is now devalued because of boosting. For this reason, I wish to hear if anyone has a solution they think would effectivly counter this system.
How can you combat this in the most effective way possible? Is it even possible to combat?
Unfortunatly, ashes of creation will attract third party boosting services that have the potential to ruin the experience for a lot of players. This is not a P2W system from IS, but nonetheless a way to pay real money for ingame advantages. But this type of pay to get advatages will be a part of this game. And based on current systems, there is nothing to stop it.
Any player with some money can easily contact pro players and guilds on discord or third party sites for boosts. Not in the form of gold or items, since that is easy to stop for large scale, but in the form of raid spots and team spots in arena.
If I want the best gear in the game, Ill simply contact a booster guild on their own platform (discord/website) and pay them a certain amount of money for a raid spot and loot priority. Effectivly giving me the ability to pay IRL money to get stuff in game that gives me an advantage.
This works in PvP too. Every season, ill just pay any top arena team on their platform and they will invite me to their arena team ingame. They will boost me as much as I can pay for.
I am afraid this will also sometimes be used in EXTREME circumstances. For example, I could pay a group of player to support me in taking down nodes and guild castles I dont like. Obviously, this wont be that common, but could potentially ruin the experience for a server to a certain degree.
I do understand this MAY be a small issue in AoC, but this is NOT a small issue in any other popular MMO today. In fact, this a significant problem for WoW for example, where almost every achivment in the game is now devalued because of boosting. For this reason, I wish to hear if anyone has a solution they think would effectivly counter this system.
How can you combat this in the most effective way possible? Is it even possible to combat?
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Comments
What we need to do is cut demand by making the best stuff bop
There is no way to prove that those elite players geniuanly dont help me to be kind. Whistleblowing is the only way.
South East Asia/Oceania server discord: https://discord.gg/J4Epj77
I remember one game when I got the last piece of my tier 2 to finally drop I celebrated by giving 10 random people mount money that needed one. I wasnt a farmer or seller just happy. Also danced on the mailbox for like 10min in the full set
Do you mean real world transaction between you and another person out of the game world for another player to "give" you want you want and paid real money for?
Thats not something you can really track...
South East Asia/Oceania server discord: https://discord.gg/J4Epj77
I don't think they have the legal rights to monitor my credit card. Also, If I was interested in selling services, why would I ruin it for myself by asking for whistleblowers?
Pay to win in ashes will be in the form of selling ingame services and items for IRL money. They will contact each other ingame and give each other discord information. On discord, they will buy/sell gold, gear, boosts etc.
The only way to stop this reliably, from what i can see, is gamemasters from IS activly whistleblow.
This means that GM:s will fake being a customer and ban the service provider once they know their ingame name/the name of the ingame accomplice
That does not work. Only amateur boosters sell items/gold. Pro boosters sell raid spots for your character with loot priority. This is 100% safe from the customers point of view and the booster.
If someone pays a bunch of people to boost them via in-game mechanics, that is just an untraceable path of wasted effort. I've been in guilds where we boosted each others alts and friends ALL the time. It is one of the core reasons to join guilds. The fact that someone pays for that benefit vs just making friends or joining a higher end guild, will be nearly untraceable without a stupid amount of effort.
Intrepid is a game development company, they develop game content and ensure game is running correctly and ToS are followed. They are not the CIA/FBI to have an entire investigation unit to track down real world interactions/transactions.
I think this is over-reaching. I dont think we as a community needs to now start looking for all the niche ways of things.
As long as 80-90% of the P2W function has been removed - I don't care for the niche forms. The amount of people who would be doing this would be the same amount of people who will have a flying mount in the game. Is soo damn small. A rich person is gonna find a loophole no matter what - no point trying to micromanage, go into ever nook and crany situation and try to seal a hole. In the end, pretends its like that cartoon where the boat is sinking - they plug one hole but another hole open up. You plug that hole yet another hole opens up....
As long as we blocked a majoirty, like 80-90% majority of obvious loopholes / p2w formats / gold sellers and whatnot - I am happy. You found a creative way - so be it. 1 in 1000 and in 10000 server, I am fine with that.
In WoW, I would confidantly say atleast 5% of the community, probably more, buy boosts often. On other games, it is even higher. In fact, paying people for raid spots and group slots is one of the most common ways to P2W in all MMO:s
Also, this is not a rich people thing. A boost wont cost that much. anyone that wants to save 100+ hours for 100$ (which is quite a logical thing for many) is a potential customer for boosters.
Also nothing prevents me spending in-game gold to buy into a raid spot.
just like WoW - pay me in-game to run you a dungeon. nothing illegal there. If I am able to clear a dungeon solo and with a master loot system in place - I can sell he desired loot you want - you can't stop that nor is it in Ashes benefit to intervene on that. All they can do is change the dungeon / class to prevent me from soloing it I suppose but to punish me for selling a in-game service for in-game money shouldnt have any consequence.
If so - why do we have a bounty hunter service? Hell AoC already promoted the idea of - hiring mercenaries to protect your caravan....
The problem comes when someone payed a bit of cash to burn your 1+ month of progress metropolis to the ground. It is extremly serious and vital that this is taken care of as much as possible. For example, by investing in a few GM whistleblowers.
Paying in game gold for boosts is completly legal. And is also a basic game design feature. I fully support it. But paying real world money, is pay to win. There is a colossal difference.
Currently, If i dont like your guild, i can simply pay to ruin your metropolis with IRL cash, and you cant do anything about it. Every time you reach stage 5+ ill simply use my credit card and wipe you out.
I was unclear. Paying for anything with ingame currency is NOT p2w. I fully support every kind of boost connected to ingame currency.
What I dont support, is people using their credit card to aquire stuff ingame.
Just stop.
While words usually have a typical meaning and definition, they are ultimatly subjective. P2W, in it's common meaning, is when you have the ability to pay IRL money for ingame advantages not avaible for people who do not use IRL money.
By this definition, I am using P2W correctly.
This is not real life. Money should not get other people to do things for me in this game.
Why the fvck do you have to keep posting "AoC is P2W" on forums?
Because I want to stop it from destroying parts of the game. What do you mean a no-brainer? I am not aware IS will use whistleblowing as a means to combat this. I have read and studied all the ways they will try to stop third party cites and they will not work. We need something more.
Tell me, how would you feel if I don't like your guild, and simply pay some IRL cash to wipe out your hard earned city time after time til you leave the server?
Great, so you feeling like you are being technically correct about the meaning of p2w is a good enough reason to make topics that just discuss how money works in this life.
And you see NO HARM DONE having "AoC is P2W" thread titles on these games forums. Because you know, technically you think you are correct, and it doesnt matter that a couple of idiots may get the wrong idea and go spread out more misinformation to other people.
So, moraly, you are not responsible for hurting AoC, since you are technically correct that "real life money exists!"
Just stop these p2w topics man... go back to some other interesting discussions that you successfully started before.
Going to have to disagree with this - I'd say it's common meaning is when the game includes features that facilitate the ability to pay IRL money for ingame advantages.
If you want to talk about money changing hands outside the game's control, that's a stretch. Along those lines, we could just say anyone who buys a high-end gaming rig or superior internet plan is paying to win by using IRL money for a performance advantage.
This game is not P2W. End of discussion
If this is such an unnesesary post, tell me how we can stop the issue i presented here?
This issue is not present.
Just like gold sellers are being banned in other games due to report or GMs finding them on their own, so will boosting be treated in the same way due to inrl money breaking the rules.
I agree with you, I changed it to third party p2w services. Now, instead of avoiding the problem, how do we solve this degenerate problem?
How can we combat third party boosting services effectivly?