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Do NOT add the airship...

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Comments

  • KnightPixieKnightPixie Member
    Currently I am okay with airships, and here are my reasons.

    1. Can only bring yourself, not mule or caravan.
    2. Travel will most likely depend on distance, so the flight time will have increased time depending on separation of nodes.
    3. Air travel relies on two nodes being scientific and metropolis size.
    4. If someone declares war on either node then it will be nocked out for at least 5-6days. (5days prep when services go on lockdown, plus day of battle. This assumes the node successfully defends itself. If the scientific node is sacked, then no more air travel until someone builds a scientific node again.) There's no stopping people trying to interfere with this type of node from developing.
  • OrcLuckOrcLuck Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The airship is a late game convenience its not something you should try to talk them out of.
  • YuyukoyayYuyukoyay Member
    This is going to be limited so hard that it's probably not going to be an issue. It may not even be possible to have an airship on your server at all.
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    U.S. East
  • DemidreamerDemidreamer Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited August 2020
    Seems to me that if an airship route happened to pop on your server, and began wrecking havoc on your economy, that may incur the wrath of other nodes. Time to rally troops and burn that scientific node into ashes, maybe something better will happen for you.
    edited for spelling~
  • JokomaJakJokomaJak Member
    Not every server is going to have your "ideal" composition of metropolis types. The whole incentive of having two scientific metropolises is the faster airship travel between them, and building two scientific metropolises is going to be a challenge in itself.
  • JokomaJakJokomaJak Member
    Also I doubt you will be able to use airships as a viable alternative to caravans for transporting goods across the world.
  • UlquiorraUlquiorra Member
    edited August 2020
    Is there a reason to declare war on scientific metropolises if their location is perfectly placed(one in every continent)? Other than wanting to take freehold spots, I don't think enough people are willing to gather to siege the node.
  • DummoDummo Member, Alpha Two
    edited August 2020
    Ulquiorra wrote: »
    Is there a reason to declare war on scientific metropolises if their location is perfectly placed(one in every continent)? Other than wanting to take freehold spots, I don't think enough people are willing to gather to siege the node.

    The people in those nodes have a pretty big advantage, and there's always rewards for a (succesful) siege, especially a metropolis. These rewards are from plundering the node.
    Dark Knight
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  • UlquiorraUlquiorra Member
    edited August 2020
    Dummo wrote: »
    Ulquiorra wrote: »
    Is there a reason to declare war on scientific metropolises if their location is perfectly placed(one in every continent)? Other than wanting to take freehold spots, I don't think enough people are willing to gather to siege the node.

    The people in those nodes have a pretty big advantage, and there's always rewards for a (succesful) siege, especially a metropolis. These rewards are from plundering the node.

    Then just join them(or its vassal nodes). There no limit to how many people can join a node, just a "soft cap" where it becomes costlier to join the more citizens it has. Destroying a perfectly placed scientific metropolis is never worth it imo, so finding enough strong players that agree upon such decision is difficult or impossible because they will make the server their enemy.
  • LeroherLeroher Member
    Xyphien wrote: »
    1200px-map2.jpg


    This is the map of Verra, and you're probably asking yourself. Xyphien, what the heck man. This doesn't have to do anything with an airship, and why did you capitalize the NOT??? Well person who might have actually been thinking that but if you weren't you're now thinking it because your using the voice in your head to read this, the map has a huge part of why an Airship will ruin the game...

    The map has two main continents, they are not connected, conjoined, or have any way to get to one or the other without either air or water travel. On top of that there are several islands that are the same thing. Air and Water travel are limited to the 5-15 ish people in the server that will have a flying mount, and those who use naval ships to get from one place to another. On top of this we know that resources will be placed in areas that make since, and the game itself will be based around economy, and resources to advance in the game.



    eqAP3Vh.png

    Ignoring the very crude paint strokes, the red X will indicate a rare resource that only spawns in the snow biome in the world. This could be caused from the cold effecting the materials naturally found in the mountain to create an ore that we're only able to get in that area, to something else completely. Nonetheless, this is one of the only places to find it.

    This means you will have to travel either to the western edge to then ship it all the way around to the other continent as depicted in the image below:
    cu5oggq.png


    OR you will have to get a caravan and take it to the eastern edge and ship it shorter across the area as depicted in the image below:
    3oCF5rp.png

    This means you will either have to have a large guild that can do this, or more likely hire someone to pick up your goods and ship them all the way over to the other continent, to then get a caravan and hire mercenaries to protect you all the way to the area you're getting to. OR you will have to hire a caravan, take it over to the edge, hire a ship to take it over to the other continent to hire another caravan and move it to your location.

    Regardless of the case you're one, funding other guilds and peoples business in the game, advancing the economy, as well as THEN supplying that second continent materials it does not naturally have. This means that the economy will greatly flourish because of this.

    Now, picture this but for every resource that is only in one area of the map. If it's on a single island, or other things. You have to do a lot of stuff in order to transport these things across the world, the pricing of them will change depending on how many people are doing it, business will start up around those areas and it could turn into the equivalent of an american gold rush instead of the fact that these materials may not run out.

    Now... Let's bring in the airship theory. There's 2 metros in the game (in this hypothetical) one on each continent, let's be honest if you want two science metros you'll try your best to ensure this happens so it will happen on at least one server. Now, let's add the airship theory. All of that hard work, all of the different localized prices for that resource and everything else will go out the window and here's why.

    kzhWI0E.png


    It's a simple straight shot from one to the other. You go, mine the resource, go back, sell it. There's no longer risk versus reward that the game boasts about. There's no merchant ships hiring mercenaries to protect them, people risking everything in caravans, no one to raid it, pirate it, or any gameplay everyone wants in the game anymore. It's just an automated system taking everything from one place to the other, and again, and again.

    This will topple the economy, it will make resources so predominant in game as it will be the best and really only way people will travel. There's only one real use for caravans at that point, and that's to take the goods to a neighboring economy node. That's it.



    Family fast travel's kind of the same thing, it can be exploited, even with precautions. But that's for another overly long post.

    This post has been made by #antifasttravelgang. And supported by Knights of Ember.

    You got a point, but remember that we need two sci metros, as you said, and be citizen from one of them. That, in the rare case that both metros would be in the spots you said, would give an advantage to them, but the people who is not a citizen would keep being the same, so maybe to prevent that possible future difference, they should give something equally good to the other metros.
  • WarthWarth Member, Alpha Two
    FuryBladeborne wrote: »
    Zhab wrote: »
    Judging by what other people are saying, it seems like what you get to carry on airships is very limited. If that is true... Never mind airship and scientific metropolis. Seems to me like what you should be worried about are economic metropolis. Get your stuff to any eco node that is vassal of the eco metropolis and you get to list your stuff in the auction house. Which can then be bid on from any nodes which is vassal to any metropolis eco nodes.

    Economic nodes will have the same problems as global auction houses from other games. When you make a post, your competing with everyone else that posts in the in the economic node. That can be up to 20% of the world that you are competing with. The way to make sales is to undercut the most recently placed items. Many items have so much supply that they become worthless.

    Essentially, the value created by moving items a long distance from where it is gathered is eroded, possibly to the point of becoming worthless. Hopefully, this won't happen as much with the regional economic system being put into place everywhere else.

    people will still have to gather the materials from the Node it was posted in. Any half decent buyer/crafter will factor in the distance to their home node and the attached risk
  • WarthWarth Member, Alpha Two
    Xyphien wrote: »
    nidriks wrote: »
    Steven has already said Ashes will include no fast travel. I believe that includes airships.

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    spiritswithin wrote: »
    Bro its confirm that you can only bring ur backpack and not caravans or mules in the airship, its just a means of faster travel and nothing else. And would you really hire a caravans worth of "inventory players" than just doing caravan itself? remember mules is 10x more storage than ur backpack and caravans are 10x more than mules so thats a huge player base if ur going to do that lol
    You say this, but where's your source?
    vhbenin wrote: »
    Airships will be resource limited/locked this was confirmed by Jahlon i believe.

    I may be wrong, but isn't Jahlon the guy that owns Ashes101 and not an official dev, does he have a source as well? I'd be interested in seeing how he confirmed it.
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    You make a point, but its easy to prevent this. They just need to make it so that you cannot enter an air ship if you carry any/too many resources, and boom, problem solved.
    If this is the case I can agree slightly with it. I still am against all forms of fast travel, family, science nodes, etc. but if they have enough restrictions and ensure it cannot be exploited I guess it'll be good enough.

    it was asked and answered on discord by steven.
  • suprvillnsuprvilln Member
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    You make a point, but its easy to prevent this. They just need to make it so that you cannot enter an air ship if you carry any/too many resources, and boom, problem solved.


    This. They can have you stop through customs lol

  • FantmxFantmx Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Pretty sure you described how the game is being designed to be played. I wouldn't worry about airships.
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  • XylsXyls Member, Alpha Two
    Ulquiorra wrote: »
    Dummo wrote: »
    Ulquiorra wrote: »
    Is there a reason to declare war on scientific metropolises if their location is perfectly placed(one in every continent)? Other than wanting to take freehold spots, I don't think enough people are willing to gather to siege the node.

    The people in those nodes have a pretty big advantage, and there's always rewards for a (succesful) siege, especially a metropolis. These rewards are from plundering the node.

    Then just join them(or its vassal nodes). There no limit to how many people can join a node, just a "soft cap" where it becomes costlier to join the more citizens it has. Destroying a perfectly placed scientific metropolis is never worth it imo, so finding enough strong players that agree upon such decision is difficult or impossible because they will make the server their enemy.

    You may be underestimating how many people would love to just "watch the world burn".
    We are recruiting PvPers!
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Zhab wrote: »
    EmoNagger wrote: »
    You forgot to think that WHAT IF a server decide to have 2 metro-eco node .... at the very same continent.
    I feel like everyone glossed over this real hard. A reminder...

    https://ashesofcreation.com/news/2019-05-32-know-your-nodes-economic-node-type

    ECONOMIC SUPERPOWER - LINKED ECONOMY
    Economic Nodes that have reached the Metropolis Stage unlock the Superpower “Linked Economy”. Any Economic Node with this Superpower unlocked shares Auction House listings with all the others, meaning that the items listed in one Linked Economy Node can be bid on from any other Linked Economy Node. Linked Economies also connect a Metropolis and any Vassal Economic Nodes belonging to that Metropolis.

    The Linked Economy Superpower has the potential to create a massive market that spans the world. This will allow players to attain and sell goods with ease, providing those who have access to these Economic Nodes a faster path to fortune in the lands of Ashes of Creation.

    Judging by what other people are saying, it seems like what you get to carry on airships is very limited. If that is true... Never mind airship and scientific metropolis. Seems to me like what you should be worried about are economic metropolis. Get your stuff to any eco node that is vassal of the eco metropolis and you get to list your stuff in the auction house. Which can then be bid on from any nodes which is vassal to any metropolis eco nodes.

    Linked economy wont be bad imo. The linked auction houses simply allows for people to sell their resources across the world, where the travel would make it easy for anyone to travel across the world and farm said resources themselves instead of relying on other players who have based themselves in the area around those resources. Economic simply allows easier trade of resources where travel makes those resources accessible by everyone, which will eliminate a large portion of the demand on the market due to the ability to just go farm it themselves even though they are based on the opposite side of the world. Without the travel system you would still be able to go to try and get said resources yourself, but you have to make the journey and still farm said resources in an area that isn't your home. To avoid this you could use the economic nodes to access the trade system so you can pay the players of those areas for the rare materials you need if you want to avoid all of the time traveling and farming.

    In summary I agree to just get rid of the airships, don't allow a possibility to make the world smaller than it should be. IMO, the concept of fast travel is just a thing made for bypassing low level zones nobody is interested in so they can get to higher level zones quicker, and that isn't a factor in this games design seeing as there are no zones with permanently set levels.
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  • HotsomaHotsoma Member
    The economy manager would just deflate the value of whatever item it is people were doing this with and cause it to either not be worth the time or make it just as profitable as anything else. The people doing it for the first time would make a lot of money, but then the economy would adjust itself as the item kept flowing into the local areas.

    Plus the airship flight time could be long enough that this isn't much of an issue. They exaggerate their stance on fast travel enough that I feel like doing this on an airship would just be a safe way to transport some stuff, but not the most profitable.
  • ArellaArella Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    EmoNagger wrote: »
    According to your map, my guess is Asia/Australia is underground.

    Yeah where they belong.

    JK, just trolling. OP makes good points.

    To just add flavor to the conversatio . Perhaps Airships should only be able to travel a certain distance further than the nodes sphere of influence. 2X or 3X?
    𝙿𝚛𝚊𝚒𝚜𝚎 𝚋𝚎, 𝚝𝚑𝚎 𝙰𝚗𝚌𝚒𝚎𝚗𝚝 𝙶𝚘𝚍𝚜
  • JudethJudeth Member, Alpha Two
    Yeah, I'd honestly prefer a world where we have to legitimately ride everywhere. Can you imagine having to take a boat across the ocean to get to another continent? It'll make traveling so much more exciting. Or having to make camp when you go afk or get offline.
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