What do you all think the 8 man group meta will be?

ThatBardGuy

We know that it will be holy trinity based but how do you think the specific breakdown will work? If you pick the other option, please share you thoughts below!

https://strawpoll.com/gac827ro8

Edit: Different Strawpoll link

Roko

a meta for what?
8v8 PvP? 8 people instanced Dungeons? crafting? gathering? exploring?

each one of those will have a different meta imo.

JamesSunderland

I Believe 1 Tank 1 Bard 2 Cleric and 4 DPS for PvP and maybe 1 Tank 1 Bard 1 Cleric and 5 DPS for PvE is the most logical?
BTW without concrete information over all 64 classes its impossible to predict.

Jyunkix

could be anything tbh, we dont know about the balance of the classes yet, so ill go with 8 bard

Aardvark

ThatBardGuy wrote: »

We know that it will be holy trinity based but how do you think the specific breakdown will work? If you pick the other option, please share you thoughts below!

https://strawpoll.com/gac827ro8

Edit: Different Strawpoll link

Easy they want it to be 1 of each class. 8 classes party of 8. Then remove whoever is underpowered that month and add a 2nd of whatever is OP that month and there you go.

Ulf

I like the idea of

1 Tank
1 Off tank ( maybe bard.. swordsinger style )
3 DPS ( This dictates what kind of support you need, more mana regen, more HP skills, etc)
1 Cleric/Bishop ( Heavy HP skills sustain, etc)
1 Support/Robe buffer( Atk speed buffs, HP, griefing skills like root or similar )
1 Utility/ Healer ( CC, Tank, Mana Regen for the Cleric, etc etc )

But thinking that you will always have a full 8 man Party is utopic. So Im thinking most of the time we will make do with 3man- 4 man, until big group, boss fight, sieges, caravans, mass pvp, etc.

If they balance the support classes good, more people will want to play them = Variety of supports for different areas, strategies, zones, fights, etc.

As I said before, The WoW Community is strong, but wayy too much Dungeon Focused. I've read other posts and usually the discussion goes around " Clearing Dungeons " and the " Meta for content ".

People don't like surprises nowadays.

Have a Great day !

Ulf

EmoNagger

raid: 1 of each archtype, and sub into cleric.
caravan raid: all 8 sub into rogue, stealth ambush and start the first with focus fire should turn the tide.
Siege: 1 tank javalin and pull 5 enemy player in and other 7 player just aoe/focus them down. (my experience in Aion group pvp), so probably 1 tank 1 cleric and 6 mix of w/e

This is just guesses and baseless theory-craft as there is lack of information on skills/augments. Won't be surprise the next few dev update will prove this wrong.

Ulquiorra

Think outside the box.

Tank and Cleric ARE replaceable by Fighter/Tank and Bard/Cleric, because it's their second role to begin with.
Bards can heal without cleric subclass; so, with the subclass, the heals should become reliable.

Less obvious option is fighter/cleric IF it works as life-steal, and Bard/bard IF it provides the best buffs. But it shouldn't work this way because this would easily become the META.

Ulf

Ulquiorra wrote: »

Think outside the box.

Tank and Cleric ARE replaceable by Fighter/Tank and Bard/Cleric, because it's their second role to begin with.
Bards can heal without cleric subclass; so, with the subclass, the heals should become reliable.

I agree! With the wide variety of classes, Thinking outside the box is a must, lets see if the community thinks the same, or stay stuck with the holy closed trinity.

George_Black

Brave new world

akabear

I would really hope that some of the raids get designed around different group makeups so there is not one meta to rule them all

• close range or long range
• standing ground / kiting

• high damage output or high armor/defense pre-prerequisite

• or unique skills in the mix..(dragon age esque) and perhaps dungeons that`s paths have a multitude of varied obstacles and paths one can take leading to different end mobs/dungeons. all dependent on the skill set of the group.

Tank - need a tank to break through x depth / wall of dungeon
Rouge - need a locksmith to get through a door
Mage - need a certain spell to traverse an obstical

plixen

EmoNagger wrote: »

raid: 1 of each archtype, and sub into cleric.
caravan raid: all 8 sub into rogue, stealth ambush and start the first with focus fire should turn the tide.
Siege: 1 tank javalin and pull 5 enemy player in and other 7 player just aoe/focus them down. (my experience in Aion group pvp), so probably 1 tank 1 cleric and 6 mix of w/e

This is just guesses and baseless theory-craft as there is lack of information on skills/augments. Won't be surprise the next few dev update will prove this wrong.

Only rogue as main archetype can stealth.
Rogue as second archetype will give you the chance to put augment on some ability to go stealth for a very short time - preeeetty sure Steven said this in one of the streams.

Example might be something like if ranger has rogue as second archetype, when he uses the fleeting shot ability (Retreating shot rolls backward and does damage), he might be able to augment it to give him stealth for a short time, to get out of combat.

But i am pretty sure you can't make all other main archetypes able to go stealth for an ambush.

ThatBardGuy

Roko wrote: »

a meta for what?
8v8 PvP? 8 people instanced Dungeons? crafting? gathering? exploring?

each one of those will have a different meta imo.

You are absolutely right! I would love to see what you think each one will be like! This was realy more of a generalized discussion to get people talking about it!!

Damokles

I say 2 Tanks, 4DPS, 1 Bard and 1 Cleric.

That way you can switch one tank in the back to stop an enemy gank while the other tank keeps the adds occupied.

Aardvark

Damokles wrote: »

I say 2 Tanks, 4DPS, 1 Bard and 1 Cleric.

That way you can switch one tank in the back to stop an enemy gank while the other tank keeps the adds occupied.

Tanks have never been good at controlling pvp attackers

Damokles

Aardvark wrote: »

Damokles wrote: »

I say 2 Tanks, 4DPS, 1 Bard and 1 Cleric.

That way you can switch one tank in the back to stop an enemy gank while the other tank keeps the adds occupied.

Tanks have never been good at controlling pvp attackers

Well, this time tanks seem to have nice cc though^^
Hatred Rank 2 gives you a forced target lock, Javelin is a nice grab, Shockwave seems nice for mass CC and Onslaught gives you a mass knockup at Rank 3.

He just has to stall the enemy group until your group either finishes the adds or they can disengage the adds.

(All abilities are subject to change ofc)

Kneczhevo

With eight classes and eight man groups, I see one of each class for meta.

Sure, there are different builds and archetypes, but the primary roles are what make the meta. You need a rogue and a mage to find all those secret passages and treasures, that's two classes there. Tank healer, two more. Not sure about the others, but you get the idea, as I just filled half your meta. Oh, How about ranger as puller? That makes five. The other three are fodder/dps?

If you want to discuss PvP meta... Whole raid is dps.

Heck, wouldn't it be funny if eight palidans were the meta? No it wouldn't.

Yuyukoyay

Pretty much complete guesswork by this point.

Probably
1-2 Tanks.
1-2 Healers
3-4 Pure DPS
1-2 Auxillery Roles (Buffer, Debuffer, Roles outside of the trinity)
1-2 Hybrid like classes (some augments might bring unique combinations to the game)

This is a situation where a Lineage II player might have a better insight over this than a WoW player. As WoW doesn't have roles outside of the trinity. Everquest players might also have better insight. I don't think many other games have any adherent advantage in thinking about this.

It's complicated how non trinity roles are going to fit into the meta because not many games allow them to be viable. They might allow them to be temporarily viable with hard limitations on how many you can have.

This game really isn't going to be like any other MMO made. So not a lot of prior experience is going to really help you figure this out faster. Lineage 2 and Everquest just have non trinity classes blended into the core of the game.

Aardvark

Yuyukoyay wrote: »

Pretty much complete guesswork by this point.

Probably
1-2 Tanks.
1-2 Healers
3-4 Pure DPS
1-2 Auxillery Roles (Buffer, Debuffer, Roles outside of the trinity)
1-2 Hybrid like classes (some augments might bring unique combinations to the game)

This is a situation where a Lineage II player might have a better insight over this than a WoW player. As WoW doesn't have roles outside of the trinity. Everquest players might also have better insight. I don't think many other games have any adherent advantage in thinking about this.

It's complicated how non trinity roles are going to fit into the meta because not many games allow them to be viable. They might allow them to be temporarily viable with hard limitations on how many you can have.

This game really isn't going to be like any other MMO made. So not a lot of prior experience is going to really help you figure this out faster. Lineage 2 and Everquest just have non trinity classes blended into the core of the game.

And any simular group that can do it with 1 tank 1 healer 1 buff and 5 pure dps will get the loot instead due to having more DPS

Yuyukoyay

My list is made due to no knowledge of how powerful buffs and debuffs can be. Going above 4 DPS is being unrealistic and Greedy though. It basically means you aren't even considering alternative roles at all. I also have a feeling they are probably going to look into DPS stacking to be worse in this game than any other. Don't underestimate the we want every class to be viable line. It does not mean archetype it means the 64 classes.

Damage might be low in this game to enhance boss fights and PvP. So stacking them could be ineffective vs a balanced party.

Orlando2

1 tank 4 dps 1 buffer 2 healers
2 tanks 4 dps 1 buffer 1 healer
2 tanks 3 dps 1 buffer 2 healers
1 tank 3 dps 2 buffer 2 healers (only if the bard is versatile enough in buffs with augments)

KnightPixie

8x Archwizard (Ker-Boom)! ;3

Leiloni

ThatBardGuy wrote: »

We know that it will be holy trinity based but how do you think the specific breakdown will work? If you pick the other option, please share you thoughts below!

https://strawpoll.com/gac827ro8

Edit: Different Strawpoll link

Did you forget the role of the Summoner? Jack of all trades, there to fill in gaps in the party where needed. Likely it will be 1 tank, 1 Cleric, 1 Bard, 1 Summoner, 4 DPS. They're trying to balance so that each of the 8 archetypes has a place in a party so I'm guessing that's the make up we'll end up seeing if they do their jobs.

Leiloni

Ulquiorra wrote: »

Think outside the box.

Tank and Cleric ARE replaceable by Fighter/Tank and Bard/Cleric, because it's their second role to begin with.
Bards can heal without cleric subclass; so, with the subclass, the heals should become reliable.

Less obvious option is fighter/cleric IF it works as life-steal, and Bard/bard IF it provides the best buffs. But it shouldn't work this way because this would easily become the META.

The subclass doesn't change your role at all. Your role is dictated by your primary class and there is no such thing as a "second role". So a secondary class tank might at best give you some extra self-defense buffs to make you a harder to kill DPS but you'd still be a dps. Bards don't have enough healing to support a group - it's been noted as being "much, much less" than Cleric and only proximity-based HoTs, debuffs on an enemy that heal anyone who attacks it for a small amount, etc. so low, supportive group healing to help the Cleric. They've said only Cleric has enough healing to support a team and only Cleric can even directly target heal people as well.

The secondary classes will certainly change how you play, but they're just going to give your role a different flavor, not change your role.

SamuraiWindu

This may sound trite, but the meta will most assuredly be one Bard, one Cleric, one Fighter, one Mage, one Ranger, one Rogue, one Summoner, and one Tank. The game is designed to make every archetype relevant. Why are people so intent on imposing a meta before the game is finished? A more interesting question will be: What augments do you prefer for the archetype you play?

Bolorny

8 Summoner/Summoner.
No Doubt.

Damokles

Bolorny wrote: »

8 Summoner/Summoner.
No Doubt.

Now I really want to see a 8 man Bard group.

2x Bard/Tank (Sirens)
2x Bard/Fighter (Tellsword)
1x Bard/Rogue|Ranger (Trickster|Songwarden)
1x Bard/Mage (Magician)
2x Bard/Cleric (Soulweaver)

Taraniss

8 rogues hiding and waiting for a single player to walk by. One person in discord counting down from 3 until they all pounce.

In all honesty I know in a perfect world the meta will be like @SamuraiWindu mentions. The fact of the matter is though it probably won't be. There will be combos figured out and groupings tinkered with that will rise to the top. Then there will be patches and changes like every single MMO. Then something else will rise to the top. Whether it is just an overall annoying comp or an un-killable comp. In a game like this there will never be a "perfect" balance. Without the details of the classes and archetypes we can only guess what the meta will be. But I would bet almost anything it won't be that perfect lineup of bard, mage, tank, summoner, fighter, cleric, ranger, and rogue. If I had to bet on that vs something else...I am taking something else. Which is not a bad thing. If 75% of the classes/combinations of classes can "work and be relevant" then I would consider it a HUGE success. 100% perfect balance in an MMO of this scale is pretty much impossible imo.

Orlando2

SamuraiWindu wrote: »

This may sound trite, but the meta will most assuredly be one Bard, one Cleric, one Fighter, one Mage, one Ranger, one Rogue, one Summoner, and one Tank. The game is designed to make every archetype relevant. Why are people so intent on imposing a meta before the game is finished? A more interesting question will be: What augments do you prefer for the archetype you play?

You can have all archetypes relevant without forcing the players to play a specific meta.
Maybe some people will want to make an archer group with tank/supports.
Limiting the viability in group composition is a bad thing imo.

Ziu

LFG 8-man Archmage Only group, let’s blow everything up while jumping around to avoid damage

loghan

PvP meta: 8 female dwarves with all body sliders moved to the smallest.

As a skinny 3 foot tall dwarf your hitbox will be the smallest and so at that point you no longer have to worry about anyone who is dumb enough to use Action Combat. You just have to worry about the AOE and Tab Targetting.