Family summoning and meaningful interactions

Diura

o/ Fellow adventurers!

The family summoning system has brought up many points of views and discussions! I think Hakurai's most recent video is a nice collective of thoughts the community has had.

Steven has expressed that the system is intended to aid casual players to keep up with friends in such a vast map. The design of the system won't be allowed for abuse and with testing in A2 the team will be examining the data to make sure of that.
(Tried to insert photos of quotes but won't work on my phone!)

My concerns don't just come from the potential for abuse but more with the point that it could become an excuse to skip over the core systems.

I came to Ashes intrigued and supportive of the "Design Pillars" in which every aspect of design goes hand in hand to support bringing together a community.

"To get people to interact with each other meaningfully"

^ This simple quote alone is what Ashes of Creation is to me.

Even though the family summoning brings people together - I do not believe it encourages meaningful interactions.

It allows us to skip the steps of creating a journey together in which we create memorable experiences. In an unexpected journey...

---

I'm a casual player - I'm lucky if I have an hour or two to play per a day.

If I feel I want to move around quickly I will become a citizen of a Scientific Node. I'll support that node as best as I can - with some hardwork maybe it'll become a Metropolis.

If my friends are going to the other side of the map - I'm sure they would plan ahead of time to allow me (and others) to decide if we want to come or not - and to travel (if they didn't care I should really reconsider my friendship choices ha!).
If I can't make it then that's ok because if not today, there is always next time.
Besides there should be plenty of fun and meaningful interactions with other players within my node that allow for memorable experiences as it is.

I do not need a family summon in search for a fun meaningful experience <- I think that's my point

Tyrantor

And what about when you or your friends get jumped by a group, kicks you out of your camp, dungeon, quest etc? Do you just log off because you only have an hour to play and your friends are 2 hours away on the map?

What about if your friend needs help with a Caravan that is leaving out of a different city and you weren't online when he ran across the map or to a neighboring Meto - you're just going to for go that experience with your friend because a single point of view on the use or substantial pre-meditated planning without knowing quest lines or daily tasks will Intel?

Chaostastic

It does feel out of place. Steven said that distance will matter, yet we have a way to instantly teleport potentially to the other corner of the map. I'm sure any ways to abuse it will get fixed after alpha but still it kinda ruins the "huge world" feel.

Diura

Tyrantor wrote: »

And what about when you or your friends get jumped by a group, kicks you out of your camp, dungeon, quest etc? Do you just log off because you only have an hour to play and your friends are 2 hours away on the map?

What about if your friend needs help with a Caravan that is leaving out of a different city and you weren't online when he ran across the map or to a neighboring Meto - you're just going to for go that experience with your friend because a single point of view on the use or substantial pre-meditated planning without knowing quest lines or daily tasks will Intel?

I agree that it would be useful but I don't think it fits with the core designs.

They aim for the cast to be lengthy so if your trying to summon whilst being jumped it'll be challenging to do so. If you decide to summon after you die to try and seek revenge you also need to remember you've spawned randomly. You'll have to weigh up whether it's worth summoning friends from across the map for them to then make a return journey with maybe no summon.

If you lose your spot that's part of the risk/reward of Ashes. Not all memorable experiences will be positive. Why not make a negative a positive and ask for more supportive players nearby to help you out instead? Maybe you have guild/alliance mates nearby that are not in your family.

If my friend went to another node spontaneously and wanted assistance with his caravan - if I were too far away - then why can't they ask for local help? Team up with someone else travelling to the same node?

Tyrantor

So you're reasoning boils down to seek local help from strangers rather than play with your friends? We just as well play a single player game and seek NPC help instead of actual people.

Diura

Tyrantor wrote: »

So you're reasoning boils down to seek local help from strangers rather than play with your friends? We just as well play a single player game and seek NPC help instead of actual people.

Poor strangers! You're not people! (I know this is not what you meant but made me chuckle!)

If that's what you think I can't change your mind!

"To get people to interact with each other meaningfully"

Yes I would like to seek help from strangers - to whom could eventually become my friends (or even enemies!).
I might also find that they have skillset in-game such as crafting expertise that could be useful later on.
I would also like to play with my friends but not also be forced to only play with my friends~

Nagash

Just have to wait till testing to make everything work

Tyrantor

diura wrote: »

Yes I would like to seek help from strangers - to whom could eventually become my friends (or even enemies!).
I might also find that they have skillset in-game such as crafting expertise that could be useful later on.
I would also like to play with my friends but not also be forced to only play with my friends~

Even with the summon ability in the game how is that going to stop you from seeking help from strangers? Furthermore what is the point in becoming friends with strangers if the map becomes too much of a burden to continue to play with these new friends? Are you going to make daily plans with acquaintances for future game play? The point shouldn't be "Remove this ability so we can talk to strangers" seeing as nothing it stopping you from that under the current concept of the game. Lastly there is nothing stopping you or your friends from playing the game WITHOUT using the summon ability - IF that is how you want to play it.

Why do you feel it necessary to require that play style of the rest of us when you can currently choose to play that way.

Diura

It doesn't stop me seeking help from strangers but having the summoning system doesn't encourage me to interact with new people either (especially if I have short playtime)
Sometimes a random encounter is a sweet experience you can appreciate for the moment. My new friends don't have to be new daily acquaintances - maybe we never cross paths again but at least a memorable moment was made.

Tyrantor wrote: »

Why do you feel it necessary to require that play style of the rest of us when you can currently choose to play that way.

If you want to only play with your friends ofcourse that's fine! If you choose to summon together, sure that's fine but I personally don't agree that it adheres to the design pillars of Intrepid. It's just my opinion!

"In designing Ashes of Creation, we adhere every detail to five main pillars: Engaging and Immersive Story, a Reactive World, Player Interaction, Player Agency, and Risk vs Reward. Even in the environment, everything you as the player do will tie into these pillars, while everything your guild does, everything your server does will ultimately keep the world fresh, ever-changing, and most importantly… exciting."

https://ashesofcreation.com/news/a-world-with-consequences

Tyrantor

You lost me brother, good luck to you in finding meaningful interaction.

NatureHacker

I have been a casual, and a hardcore player, I started mmo at 13 and was a casual, and played one in my 20s hardcore. As a casual I found travel fun, meaningful, and exciting. As a hardcore I didn't so much as I was running a guild. The point here is that as long as you make it possible for a low level to travel, even if risky in the open world, casuals will actually find it fun. Especially if their high level friends can port to nearby them and help them on their journey, this is even more fun. Some of the seriously best memories I ever have of MMO's was my friend saying: "follow close behind me and you will be safe" and following him and seeing big tough monsters nearby that we were avoiding! FUN!

Kekistani infiltrator

I made this account, just to say one thing, and hopefully save the community from itself... But context is important, so please read until the end..

I have been a hard core nerd for 2 decades, DnD, MMOs, comics, if it's nerd culture, I'm almost certainly down.. when I learned about ashes, just like most of you, I felt like our culture was under a full blown assult from every direction. Corporations were farming us for our money, Hollywood was stealing our creations, politics had totally infiltrated our hobby to the point we couldn't escape for even 5 minutes..

Steven was something akin to the geek Messiah. He knew what had been lost, and he was willing to sacrifice so much to get it back. Like most of you, I was sceptical, and like an abused wife, who had finally left for good, I was terrified that this was just one more deception to prey upon my hard earned money yet again... But he delivered... Years on he was still grinding, with a team of dedicated people who seem to genuinely understand how much our imaginations mean to us in a world where a hobby can stand between ourselves and a bullet... (No I'm not suicidal, but I have seen hobbies save soldiers from my unit)

Now I am watching almost trivial aspects of the game create a rift in our treasured community, at a time where Ashes is creating it's much needed, and DESERVED momentum..

I have a 65 hour minimum work week, a newborn baby, and multiple dependents. Family obligations, etc... But I'm a hard core gamer at heart.. my wife, my family, and I all play games together. It's how we bond. It's how the Democrat and Republican spend time together in a meaningful way without fighting. It's how the Christian and the atheist enjoy one another's company without moralizing and philosophising everything.. games are more important to my family than I can even explain on a forum. The family summon is quite possibly the single most important feature to this game for people in my situation.. my wife might be able to play for an hour, or just 10 minutes before the baby needs fed.. then play again for a few hours after he takes a nap.. if you knew how much that time means to people like her, you would not be disparaging this system.. when we are playing, then her youngest brother gets home from his 9-5, the ability to join up with his family is more precious than most people realize, and possibly the only way he will socialize with his sister and brother-in-law. Many of you younger gamers don't know what tabletop DND is like, or how it felt to play Neverwinter.. but the magic was palpable.. I've been longing for this for 17 years.

Tldr; (but you should read it) Trust Steven's judgement on this one.. he is right to have family summon. Those of you who disagree, I have read your gripes, watched "this video" by every YouTuber and their two cents.. they are wrong. Steven gets it... And you are only wearing him down, when he is completely in the right.. let it go and trust him

Also: I plan on pasting this in multiple threads..

Atama

Yeah I too am a hardcore gamer at heart. But I’m a casual gamer by necessity. I have a family that deserves my attention, a career that takes most of my time, and “grown up” responsibilities like fixing my house/car, going to social obligations, etc.

In 15-20 years when my kids are off with their own families and I’m retired or semi-retired I might be able to game hard core again. Maybe Ashes will still be around! (That’s not impossible, there are MMOs running today that have been going 20+ years.)

“Leave grandpa alone, he’s in a raid!”

Buttery Wholesomeness

One of the big things that attracted me to this game was the quote "Distance matters". I've played mmos since EQ and all the way back to mudds. I am a casual gamer now and play 1 or 2 hrs a day. While this would help me out, overall the system would abused.

One thing that might mitigate some abuse is if this is going to be a family summon, then make It so that when you create a family, they are family forever. No leaving the family.

Merek

I know the game you're imagining in your head, OP, but I'm yet to see an MMO that has "meaningful" interactions outside of events. Unless you're on an RP server or there's a very specific reason for people to interact with you, they're going to ignore you. I do personally think the system sounds stupid though, but more from a, "Why bother?" point of view. Why not just allow mages to call up portals then, huh?

FuryBladeborne

Merek wrote: »

Why not just allow mages to call up portals then, huh?

Because then it is very easy for any mage to move any other player around. A lot of the point of the family summoning design is to make it very difficult to move many people or even 1 random person around.

Noaani

Tyrantor wrote: »

So you're reasoning boils down to seek local help from strangers rather than play with your friends? We just as well play a single player game and seek NPC help instead of actual people.

I would say it boils down to organization.

If you want to run a caravan, organize a time when your friends can help. Part of that organization is the logistics of getting places.