Should character weight be a thing in AoC?

I noticed in the recent dev update that the turtle shown at the end of the livestream, was able to jump over twice its body height. This kinda ruined it for me, as it doesn't really make sense for this super heavy and grumpy turtle, to be that agile.

I think that jumps and rolls should depend on your character's armor. So say for example you're wearing heavy armor, you will have a normal, smaller jump and a slower roll. If you're wearing light armor you get a fancy, higher jump, and a faster roll. If you're wearing medium armor, then it would be a normal jump, and a normal roll.

The difference doesn't have to be great, just noticeable.

What do you guys think? Should character's/monster's weight have an effect on its movement?

EDIT - I'm completely ok with dwarves being able to jump the same height as other races, as that would make it a lot easier to balance. However, their hit box should be the same as other races as well, so as to maintain balance between different races.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

deakbo

Definitely would make things mlre realistic which is what I like to see but I doubt people will care about armor weights or weight in general unfortunately. But the more realism the better in my opinion for sure. Dwarves front flipping kinda lit tho 😂😂 let the little race have their advantages

palabana

Good question. I like the game to be immersive. There should be a feeling of weight but that turtle was huge. Maybe it have very strong legs.

ZeekMystic

The problem with that is content building they’ve already shown in previous gameplay that they have some platforming gameplay it kind of trivialises it if they make it difficult for the dwarves or those in heavy armour, or dwarves in heavy armour but then if you’re taller/wearing lighter armour it’s not a problem. I’d feel people wearing the heavy armour would just strip down for it to make it easy then, what’s the point of having it.

Having everybody jump the same height regardless of race or armour is fine, but I do agree there should be significant differences in wearing the different types of armour. Hopefully this will be achieved with stats

Warth

Mechanic Wise

Realism isn't always a good thing. More often than not, it inhibits the fun a person can have with the game. A game can be the most realistic in the world, but if that comes at the expense of a game's enjoyment, then nobody will give a shit, as nobody will bother playing it.

Lore Wise

Also, they cast magic, but for some reason jumping has to be realistic. How do you explain that to yourself? Is it so "unrealistic" that a warrior that can send a rupture through the ground might also jump a little higher than a normal person? You are drawing weird lines.

Atiqa

It's an MMORPG, not a single player action/rpg game.

For your normal single player game, you can push or more realism etc. because they have more time to polish that type of content, and you don't have to worry about hundreds of players in same area.

From some of the posts on here and reddit, it seems like a lot of people either have never played an MMORPG, or they just underestimate how much work it really is for the developers.

I swear, people expect dark souls levels of combat, enemies and feel, while there are 500 other players around you and many many thousands in the world/server.

Hurf Derfman

Couldn't get past the criticism of the turtle.

Everything in this thread is dumb and you are all automatically wrong.

Rhaelah

@Warth While that's a good argument for some cases, I still think this idea should be explored. If you look at EQ, there were restrictions based on race/deity choice. Dwarves and gnomes could get into really small places while Humans/Elves had to crouch and Barbarians/Trolls/Ogres couldnt even dream of fitting into a tight place. Reputation with a certain faction/deity would hinder you. It certainly didn't inhibit the fun, it enhanced it. It was cool knowing that the world took those things into account and that I would come across them. As long as, in this example, dwarves have an advantage that others do not regarding their weight I think this is a great idea.

Anonymous332

Too much realism leads to clunky gameplay, its a game guys

Warth

Rhaelah wrote: »

@Warth While that's a good argument for some cases, I still think this idea should be explored. If you look at EQ, there were restrictions based on race/deity choice. Dwarves and gnomes could get into really small places while Humans/Elves had to crouch and Barbarians/Trolls/Ogres couldnt even dream of fitting into a tight place. Reputation with a certain faction/deity would hinder you. It certainly didn't inhibit the fun, it enhanced it. It was cool knowing that the world took those things into account and that I would come across them. As long as, in this example, dwarves have an advantage that others do not regarding their weight I think this is a great idea.

the game was designed around it, exactly. That's why it made sense and enhanced the fun. @Rhaelah

This game wasnt for the past 4.5 years. You can't just slap a new feature (that hasn't been considered at all before that point) into the mix after 2/3 of the Development time has already past and expect to be interesting, fun or just a feature thats more of an annoyance than anything else.

It just doesnt work that way.

Rhaelah

@Warth I can't disagree with you there, hopefully they'll be able to do it or things like it.

Dreoh

This is the kind of argument you see in an information drought lol

bloodprophet

Warth wrote: »

Mechanic Wise

Realism isn't always a good thing. More often than not, it inhibits the fun a person can have with the game. A game can be the most realistic in the world, but if that comes at the expense of a game's enjoyment, then nobody will give a shit, as nobody will bother playing it.

Lore Wise

Also, they cast magic, but for some reason jumping has to be realistic. How do you explain that to yourself? Is it so "unrealistic" that a warrior that can send a rupture through the ground might also jump a little higher than a normal person? You are drawing weird lines.

I was going to say Magic but you beat me to it.

CaptnChuck

@Warth
@Atiqa

I'm completely ok with dwarves being able to jump the same distance as other races. That would be a lot easier to balance. However, if this is going to be the case, then they should be given the same hitbox as other classes. Only then would it be fair.

What I'm not completely ok with though, is 1 ton turtles jumping 5 feet in the air. You don't have to focus on realism completely. Game-play takes precedence over realism always. But I don't think that a healthy bit of realism is a bad idea. Heavy armor/mobs being slower, lighter armor/mobs being faster, both of these are quite easy to balance and would really add a lot to the immersion of the game.

Kneczhevo

I swore I posted here...

Personally, I like weight mechanics, down to the last copper.

Unfortunately, these mechanics are not popular. So, few games bother. "Hey, Rockey. Watch me pull my mount outta my hat.".

Realism versus gameplay? Well, we know the answer there.

Caeryl

Basic jump height by race should be the same or you’d have the dwarves literally unable to complete some areas because of jumping puzzles.

As for armor, I’d be fine seeing jump heights reduced based on armor, not to the degree you can’t jump over a short dividing wall in heavy, but enough to make jump puzzles harder when you’re in full plate. Honestly it’d be kinda nice. That’s an active choice and one that can be worked around by players in the event it becomes an obstacle for them.

For the turtle mount specifically, just give it more *thud* impact when it lands. It may have to match the function of other mounts, but it should “feel” heavier than say, that weird anteater-gazelle-horse thing.

CaptnChuck

Caeryl wrote: »

Basic jump height by race should be the same or you’d have the dwarves literally unable to complete some areas because of jumping puzzles.

Yea I agree. But I really wish attacks and mounts had more weight to them. It doesn't have to be a huge difference, just a noticeable one.

Dolyem

As far as mounts go I dont think its out of the question. I heard that they may make it where some mount types have benefits in certain terrains. So who knows!

Aardvark

How do you justify hit boxes being the same? Example...do you hit a dwarf when something flys over it's head and actually missed on screen? Or do you miss when you headshot an orc? Because these are not going to be even close to the same height to have the same hit box.... same with dwarf and elf on width... Missing people you should have it and hitting people you should have missed due to hit boxes not matching the race is bad.

CaptnChuck

@Aardvark

I know but if it doesn't exist, it will give dwarfs an inherent advantage in PvP. Because a dwarf's character size is so small, people that use action combat will struggle to hit them, as opposed to hitting other races.

Beck Altarr

Isn't the Shell of the Ancients a cosmetic skin only? If so, then it maintains the original mounts stats/abilities. The Turtle is huge compared to the lizard mount but their hit boxes will need to be the same other wise cosmetics are not giving an advantage/disadvantage. People will want the smallest mounts for PvP.

As far a lore for the Turtle. It's shell is covered in Space so maybe it's not as heavy as it looks. It has mass, but like in space it's sorta weightless.

Each race should have a hit box relative to it's actual size. I don't think Dwarves should be able to jump as high /far as all other races but should need to be tossed over chasms by party members or have to consume a potion that would give them the ability. I like the idea of them being able to pass though smaller areas, maybe to unlock doors or get into rooms that otherwise might require a Rogue to unlock or a mage to open/move rocks. It would add more immersion into the game. Just as Dwarves may not be able to headshot/crit certain mobs because of their height disadvantage. Could be the same for PvP against which ever race is tallest so that picking a Dwarf isn't always the best choice.

I like the idea of plate wearers not having the same agility. In full plate, you are not rolling around doing somersaults. You'd roll around on the ground though until someone came and helped pick you up off the ground. So like the Dwarves, you'd need a potion or enchantment of Agility.

CaptnChuck

Beck Altarr wrote: »

As far a lore for the Turtle. It's shell is covered in Space so maybe it's not as heavy as it looks. It has mass, but like in space it's sorta weightless.

Ooh that's interesting. I didn't know that. The grumpy noises and the noise made by its animations really gave me the idea that it was heavy. But I guess I was wrong.

afar

Players who don't want realism should just get good

Samson1

I mean... AoC is not meant to be a medieval simulator. Going too deep down the 'realism' rabbit hole can take away from the fun of the game.

Gotta be mindful that good game play tends to trump realism in successful games.

afar

Samson wrote: »

I mean... AoC is not meant to be a medieval simulator. Going too deep down the 'realism' rabbit hole can take away from the fun of the game.

Gotta be mindful that good game play tends to trump realism in successful games.

Can you give an example? For me only issue is game design. Star Citizen let's say tries to be ultra realistic but it takes time

unphazd

CaptnChuck wrote: »

I noticed in the recent dev update that the turtle shown at the end of the livestream, was able to jump over twice its body height. This kinda ruined it for me, as it doesn't really make sense for this super heavy and grumpy turtle, to be that agile.

I think that jumps and rolls should depend on your character's armor. So say for example you're wearing heavy armor, you will have a normal, smaller jump and a slower roll. If you're wearing light armor you get a fancy, higher jump, and a faster roll. If you're wearing medium armor, then it would be a normal jump, and a normal roll.

The difference doesn't have to be great, just noticeable.

What do you guys think? Should character's/monster's weight have an effect on its movement?

EDIT - I'm completely ok with dwarves being able to jump the same height as other races, as that would make it a lot easier to balance. However, their hit box should be the same as other races as well, so as to maintain balance between different races.

The thing does have glowy shiny stuff on its shell. Maybe just maybe this ain't no ordinary turtle...

Dreoh

afar wrote: »

Samson wrote: »

I mean... AoC is not meant to be a medieval simulator. Going too deep down the 'realism' rabbit hole can take away from the fun of the game.

Gotta be mindful that good game play tends to trump realism in successful games.

Can you give an example? For me only issue is game design. Star Citizen let's say tries to be ultra realistic but it takes time

There's endless examples. Magic? Sprinting for miles without gasping for breath? Instant horse summon/desummon? A vertical jump height most people can't make in real life? Jumping constantly for 5 minutes? Holding 50 weapons in your backpack? Not living in the real world? Playing as a Dwarf/Orc/Elf/Lizard/Furry? Flying mounts? Not needing to take bathroom breaks in-game? Fighting a literal dragon? Killing someone, then them magically being revived at a nearby town and killing you? I guess some people believe in some old guy who respawned in a cave once in real life. Weapons not hitting walls and clipping through them?

I can go on if you want me to but I think you get the point. At least I hope so.

Aardvark

afar wrote: »

Samson wrote: »

I mean... AoC is not meant to be a medieval simulator. Going too deep down the 'realism' rabbit hole can take away from the fun of the game.

Gotta be mindful that good game play tends to trump realism in successful games.

Can you give an example? For me only issue is game design. Star Citizen let's say tries to be ultra realistic but it takes time

There is nothing realistic about sc it’s based on a 70s sci-fi understanding of space war.

Grievousness

I'll keep it short.
No, it shouldn't be a thing.

Also the realism argument is fundamentaly flawed, in fact nobody wants a "realistic game".
Going outside is cheaper anyways.

People want an immersive experience that has only partly to do with realism,
but instead what people perceive to be correct.
For example the night in almost every game is far too bright but nobody ever complains about it being unrealistic because it is so widely accepted that most people would not even actively notice this extreme level of unrealism.
In other words: It is still "immersive" enough to be not annoying.

Since people obviously have different experiences/preferences, what is perceived to be correct also differs.
As a result having an "objective" dicussion about immersion/realism is a bit pointless.

It boils down to "Do you care?" => "Yes/No"

Taroze

All they have to do is balance jumping actions via stamina...everyone can jump and dodge the same but armor effects the amount of stamina used...heavier = more...lighter = less

Taroze

Kneczhevo wrote: »

I swore I posted here...

Personally, I like weight mechanics, down to the last copper.

Unfortunately, these mechanics are not popular. So, few games bother. "Hey, Rockey. Watch me pull my mount outta my hat.".

Realism versus gameplay? Well, we know the answer there.

Weight mechanics can REALLY drag a game down into a menu sorting-fest. That's the problem with weight/inventory issues...you spend more time fukin with your bags then anything else. Its bad enough in WoW and WoW gives you a ton of slots w/no weight restrictions.

Child Item