DPS Meter Megathread

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Comments

CrazySquiggle

One thing that I think would be a good touch would be a DPS meter you could opt into so it displays your personal stats to make sure you are doing your job properly. I personally love DPS meters because it helps me min-max the perfect build and is a quick way to find out what is truly helping in an actual fight. What does everyone else prefer?

Damokles

The thing is that many games already have a damage log, it should be easy for them to implement an easy display for it. They can make it person specific (no one can see the dmg from other people except when you are the group leader).

DPS meters have a place in games in my opinion, as long as you dont get isolated because you do mediocre dmg. Group/Raid leaders need dps meters to weed out the weak (people who dont carry their own weight if you know what i mean aka those that dont even do mediocre dmg and bring nothing else to the table)

Wandering Mist

I have a love-hate relationship with dps meters. On the one hand my inner nerd loves pouring over the data you get from them. But at the same time I hate having to rely on them to know if you are playing well or not.

I'd prefer they stayed out of the game unless we absolutely needed them.

Plateau

Wololo

I dislike dps meters alot. Especially if its displayed to others in a party. First of all if there is a dps meter, a heal or buff meter would be equally important to have. Also this pushes players into meta builds more to get max dps + prefering raw damage numbers over being a utility player or supporting in other means then doing damage. But iam more of a pvp/pk player myselve and never got into serious raiding, maybe iam wrong and it is really needed to weed out the weak so to say ? It just feels wrong to funnel down on numbers when fighting in a world full of grahpics and animations to base gameplay on.

grisu

dps check bosses are a staple boss to check if you are prepared for that raid/dungeon/content. It's an easy and good way to establish a baseline a raid has to hit before they can expect to clear the dungeon at all.

If I can't check what's wrong I can't improve and get ready. Especially if there is a multitude of ways to build, distribute stats and so on. Ideally everything is in an acceptable similar range and it's all more a question of how the damage is delivered and situational strong points. (high burst phases, slowly ramping up damage, constant sustained damage, aoe, dot damage, magical, physical whatever), but there is only so much balancing you can do, the more variables you enter the harder it gets to check them all. (which again is an argument for dps meter, it provides nonstop contextual community statistics to aid the balancing progress)

Imo there HAS to be a way to check your performance and imo there HAS to be a way to quickcheck if someone is ready for whatever content. You can't expect to sucessfully run a level 50 dungeon with level 25 gear (this is examplatory for a game designed this way).

If I take a person like that anyway it's because I made an informed desicion and I understand that I put a handicap on the group. In contrast if we just go in without knowing anything there is no way to understand why it's not working and why we can't progress. (exluding obvious reasons of failure like standing in hellfire for a minute)
Is it me? Should I use skills differently? Am I oom because I overhealed? Or is the tank not reacting properly to attacks? Is the fight taking to long because we lack the damage output?
Every role is interdependant, you can't just eliminate reasons and know when there isn't anything obviously wrong like the hellfire example.

I could put 50 questions on that and have no way to eliminate any of them.

Some games don't need it, they have very linear progression were you progress through levels and at max level you progress through tiers of difficulty. You just have more or less the gear of the last 2 tiers and you are good to go. Same with skills, you have them, you use them, it's that simple.

Ashes is, according to IS, not one of them, crafting is important and brings randomness into the equation. What mats are available? What can the server craft with it? You have a whole range of stat combinations/weighting through it, lot's of skills to build your skill kit from, augmentations, unlocks, ability/weapon progression and so on.
It needs a simplyfication to check if your particular way of building all those components together gets you anywhere you want to be.

People find ways, they always do, it only needs one video of one guy showing how his build absolutly murders that monster/those players. People will flock to that if it goes unchecked and stays "unbalanced" wether dps meter is there or not. I'm sure most of us have read class guides at one point to see what "is good".
Quote on quote because you can't even be sure if that is considered good or just a bit better than all the bad ways before.

Azathoth

I am hoping there is no meter. Just a number attached to the weapon and the ability. If there is a DPS I hope there is no way for sharing or seeing other peoples numbers.

Damokles

azathoth wrote: »

I am hoping there is no meter. Just a number attached to the weapon and the ability. If there is a DPS I hope there is no way for sharing or seeing other peoples numbers.

I think a good compromise would be that only the group leader could see the overall damage/dps meter for everyone.

burnthefern

damokles wrote: »

azathoth wrote: »

I am hoping there is no meter. Just a number attached to the weapon and the ability. If there is a DPS I hope there is no way for sharing or seeing other peoples numbers.

I think a good compromise would be that only the group leader could see the overall damage/dps meter for everyone.

While I am pro meter in any form, this wouldn't really solve the elitism issue that Intrepid is trying to avoid by not allowing dps meters. It would stop a lot of the toxicity that comes from other players knowing they are doing better than you though.

Wandering Mist

damokles wrote: »

azathoth wrote: »

I am hoping there is no meter. Just a number attached to the weapon and the ability. If there is a DPS I hope there is no way for sharing or seeing other peoples numbers.

I think a good compromise would be that only the group leader could see the overall damage/dps meter for everyone.

You know, the funny thing is that despite the name, the dps number of the dps meter is probably the least useful part of a modern dps meter. Unfortunately it's also the part that most people look at the most and causes so many problems.

"you only did 13k dps on that last attempt...."

Great, that information alone is completely worthless without context. That is another reason why I don't like dps meters, because so many people don't know how to use them properly.

syl

I am not really keen into DPS meters, and I stand by the same feeling the devs have about them: They can have negative effects on the game.(source)
If the game has DPS meters, they should not be visible to the public. There should also be a healing equivalent.

Overall, I think the game would be better off having a DPS number attached to the weapon.

StreetCornerPoet

I dislike dps meters as well I think they cause more damage to the community and would be especially problematic in an open world game where those dps can just tag along and follow you into an open raid or dungeon and cause problems for your group with extra pulls or just tag along and still fight without having to be in your party.

Sure there are going to be some instance raids/dungeons but most of them will be open to anyone any way and if someone you're trying to shut out can just follow you in, why use dps meters.

Damokles

@burnthefern @wanderingmist

I know that the DPS in itself is useless, but they also have a "total damage done" meter, which in turn is incredibly usefull.
Elitism is always something that should be avoided but we should also consider another thing: Raids in general were once only doable for the best geared/skilled PvE players (the "elites") mostly.

I led Raids from WoD through Legion to BfA, and the total damage done meter was immensely helpfull to root out those that were either doing something very wrong or just didnt carry their own weight.
It is always easy for normal raiders to say that the raids became too focused on elitism, but if you cant do the modicum of damage to the boss and dont bring anything else to the table (buffs from the paladin, off heal from the druid, heroism/windfury from shaman, ability to soak aoes etc (thats all froma classic perspective) ) then you just cant do the raid.

insomnia

I recall them saying there wouldn't be one. As others have said, sometimes they cause more harm than good. It isn't always about how much dps you do. Also about cc etc

Magic Man

It is most relevant for tab target. As the game goes for a hybrid combat, I don't think it will be needed.

Wandering Mist

@damokles It's not even elitism, just ignorant players who either can't be bothered or are unable to analyse the data and consider it in context. Your average WoW player installs a dps meter and literally just looks at the "damage done" number and nothing else, then draws incorrect conclusions based on it. Whenever you have a boss mechanic that causes a player to stop attacking the boss (for whatever reason), that will affect that player's dps. You say you raided in BFA so I assume you killed Zek'voz in Uldir right? In that fight during the 2nd and 3rd phases random players get hit by the "Roiling Deceit" debuff, which inflicts damage to that player and then drops a cloud on the floor. Standing in the cloud will spawn an add, so it's important to drop the cloud in a place where nobody is going to walk into it.

Whenever a player gets the debuff they are going to have to stop dps'ing the boss to go and drop off the cloud, and the further away a player moves, the safer the cloud will be. Of course, the further a player moves to drop off their cloud, the less dps they will deal. Since these clouds stay until the end of the fight, if you are greedy with your dps and put the cloud in a bad spot, you can screw over someone else who then has to move to avoid the cloud you dropped.

Now I don't know about you, but I'd rather have a player with lower dps who is considerate about what they do with debuffs like this, than a selfish player who only thinks about getting to the top of the dps meter. Note, I'm not saying here that damage meters aren't useful. They are a very valuable tool when it comes to progression raiding. BUT! The majority of players I'm met don't know how to use them properly which results in toxicity due to their ignorance.

Damokles

@wanderingmist
I did not mean that players should all do top damage. If you read my post then you also saw that i always wrote "mediocre dps". That means that players should of course always do the mechanics instead of staying and tryjng to get in another fireball

That is why i think that only raid leaders should get insight on overall group damage/damage taken/healing/overhealing meters (with dps totally left out).

grisu

I argued for this before and if someone is a shitty person and doesn't have a dps meter that person will just latch on to the next most obvious thing, the person that died first.
Doesn't matter if you failed, the tank failed or the healer failed to keep you alive. You died you are the problem. Seen that a lot of times in games without parsers and instakicks without any words.
It's not a problem of elitism, it's just garbage human behaviour.

Azathoth

I don't know, if only a raid/guild leader can see the number, that doesn't prevent them from telling everyone the number. I am also not a fan of the "total damage done" if less than optimal means "someone is playing their character wrong." How are you going to tell someone they are playing a game they pay for just like you in a guild they joined likely because of friends and like-minded individuals they are playing the game "wrong."

Just because I don't min/max my character and use the 'optimal rotations' does not mean I am not having fun, I am not an engaged member of the group, I don't bring tactical insight to the raid, or that I somehow made my character "wrong."

I know the common response is along the lines of "what's best for the raid?" In my opinion, what's best for the raid is having players there (within an appropriate level) that want to engage positively with others. Also, it's a game so forcing some form of irl competition onto guild mates that just want to play and raid with their friends is odd... imo.

"Sorry guild buddy that is really cool, super tactical, and always a blast to have around, you didn't build your character the right way so you can't raid with us anymore. Get an alt." - Weird guy quotes

grisu

What you describe is like hiring a clown(I do not mean that with any negative implications) for a car mechanic position instead of a moral boost position. Sure you will be fun to have around but you do not have the qualification to be in that activity and fulfill the job you have been picked up for.
You are simply in the wrong guild/ -raid.
I have been part of both, the progressive raiders and the scrappy let's have fun and just see what we can achiev raiders. Both are fun, as long as everyone is on the same page. Nothing is more frustrating then people pulling in a different direction.

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