CaptnChuck wrote: » Another solution that I heard was to add a lot of depth to PvE content, by adding multiple rooms and levels and stuff, so that players don't constantly contest each other.
CaptnChuck wrote: » One of my solutions was to create two different types of PvE content: Open world dungeons/raids for enchanting materials/augments/enchanting risk-reducing materials etc., and Instanced dungeons/raids for gear.
Also, there are more PvE players than PvPers, I think. Correct me if I am wrong.
PvP for "pure"(?) PvEers can be a means to attain that ultimate gear + enchant combination. Not everyone will attempt to do so but many might. But if they have to jump through 100 different hoops just to get a 'chance' at a single world boss kill then, then... Lastly, many MMO players are people with jobs and families. They cant be available whenever the world boss spawns randomly or spend hours killing a guild camping a contested area rather than doing what they like.
This is a great balanced solution to players waiting to camp the open world bosses, massive guilds just straight out blocking access for others and casual players wanting to have progress without worrying about alliance, politics, etc.
Another solution that I heard was to add a lot of depth to PvE content, by adding multiple rooms and levels and stuff, so that players don't constantly contest each other.
Warth wrote: » Most are PvX. The amount of players trying to avoid all PvP (PvE Players) is certainly bigger than the amount of players trying to avoid all PvE (PvP Players). The target group for AoC is neither of those 2 though.
FuryBladeborne wrote: » CaptnChuck wrote: » Another solution that I heard was to add a lot of depth to PvE content, by adding multiple rooms and levels and stuff, so that players don't constantly contest each other. Open world dungeons are quite large utilizing many rooms. Here is a video of it:https://youtube.com/watch?v=LCPVmn2VQ7E
Steven wrote: We're very clear with our objective and philosophy on the game and we understand that they may not appeal to everybody. But you know it is an important reciprocal relationship between the content that's related to PvE and the content that's related to PvP and they feed off of each other. They're catalysts for change: Their progression, their development. It's things that people can value when they see something earned and they see something lost. That elicits an emotional response from the player: That they've invested time in to either succeed or fail; and PvP allows for that element to be introduced into gameplay. And we're very clear that is our objective: That risk versus reward relationship, that achievement-based mentality. Not everybody's going to be a winner and that's okay.
Warth wrote: » Steven wrote: We're very clear with our objective and philosophy on the game and we understand that they may not appeal to everybody. But you know it is an important reciprocal relationship between the content that's related to PvE and the content that's related to PvP and they feed off of each other. They're catalysts for change: Their progression, their development. It's things that people can value when they see something earned and they see something lost. That elicits an emotional response from the player: That they've invested time in to either succeed or fail; and PvP allows for that element to be introduced into gameplay. And we're very clear that is our objective: That risk versus reward relationship, that achievement-based mentality. Not everybody's going to be a winner and that's okay. 4.2% is PvE only 1.8% is PvP only 94.0% is PvX that supports what i said, ty. I'm as worried as you about the availability of challenging pve content. Gotta wait and see what happens in Alpha i suppose
Warth wrote: » @CaptnChuck IMO: The Raid Tier Bosses should: be just as hard as you'd expect an instanced Mythic WoW/ Savage FFXIV Raid Boss to be. A Level of difficulty where you need a dedicated group of PvErs to kill it. should have clear and very effective "Fuck you Zergs" mechanics, that inhibit all ways of zerging him down.
Warth wrote: » @CaptnChuck have a long run up/narrow passage leading up to the boss, that allow the "support aka PVP Raid" to defend the boss attempt of your PVE Raid from other factions trying to interfere.
CaptnChuck wrote: » Warth wrote: » @CaptnChuck IMO: The Raid Tier Bosses should: be just as hard as you'd expect an instanced Mythic WoW/ Savage FFXIV Raid Boss to be. A Level of difficulty where you need a dedicated group of PvErs to kill it. should have clear and very effective "Fuck you Zergs" mechanics, that inhibit all ways of zerging him down. I agree with this. Warth wrote: » @CaptnChuck have a long run up/narrow passage leading up to the boss, that allow the "support aka PVP Raid" to defend the boss attempt of your PVE Raid from other factions trying to interfere. Don't agree with this and here's why. When the other guild comes to contest, the PvP raid of your guild will be fighting off both the PvP raid group, AND the PvE raid group. You'll be outnumbered, assuming that you're fighting an even size guild.
Another problem that this entrails into is that this encourages the formation of alliances over enemies/staying solo. Why would guilds form enemies if forming alliances is just simply better?
And that leads into another problem. Just how many people will you truly need to do PvE content? Do you need guilds, allied guilds and everyone else and their moms, just to do a single raid without contention?
Steven wrote: We decided to focus on mechanics that bring the idea of community to the forefront. To get people to interact with each other meaningfully – not just to conquer a raid boss... We believe that’s going to be a story far more memorable and far more meaningful to players than just about anything we can come up with You know this idea that the more you risk the greater potential reward should be present is a complete paradigm shift away from everyone's a winner, everybody gets a participation reward, and here you go, congratulations you're a player in this game; and that's boring. It gives nothing for a person to aspire to achieve something, or to feel the bite of loss when you fail. Those are the driving forces of why people want to play games and it's a reason why new games when they come out have such a short lifespan, because they are always competing with WOW. You don't have to compete with WOW. You don't have to be a WOW killer. You can focus on something that is different from a philosophical design standpoint; and I think that's just what a lot of studios today don't want to take the risk on. There are absolutely legendary items and they're not items that are attained easily nor are they granted out in a volume. There might even be items that are single items that will exist on the server at any given time. 80% of the content that will exist in Ashes of Creation is open-world and there's a specific reason for that. So because of the way that friendships and or enemies are forged in the game and people have the opportunity to create their own friends or foes. We want that to play out from a contesting standpoint as well. So a lot of these hunting grounds or raid bosses that people are going to have opportunities to kill, they're going to be essentially contested potentially by your your enemies that you've created in the game or you can work together to create alliances in order to defend those contested zones. A single digit percentage of the population will be capable of defeating certain content
Warth wrote: » Because you have to split the loot with them?
Warth wrote: » Depends on how contested it is. If its the materials for the BiS Legendary gear in the game (which is supposed to be only wielded by fraction of the player base on a server). Then yes, it will be highly contested, there will be alliances to secure these resources and yes you will need sizable support to claim those for yourselves.
CaptnChuck wrote: » Because you have to split the loot with them? And that just further supports my point. Why be a solo/opposing guild and get 0 loot when you can be part of an alliance and gain at least some loot?
Chuck the Pirate wrote: And that is absolutely ok. You need content in the game that is only meant for large groups. But this is not the general playerbase. Most of them participate in small to medium-scale group content. So as long as there is ample of challenging PvE content for these players, I'm completely ok with having a few raids and dungeons that can only be done with a large group. But as of now, it doesn't look like it.
Warth wrote: » Pretty sure they intend for this be the case, that's why they have, multiple group sizes required to do certain content (8,16,40) multiple tiers of raid content (legendary bosses, raid bosses, regional bosses...) a multitude of dungeons and raids (alone 12-15 world bosses)
Warth wrote: » I personally believe, that their spawn interval should be random within a time frame but intertwined with each other, that would mean, that the strongest guilds/alliances will have to focus on locking down the most profitable ones, while weaker guilds fight each other for the less profitable ones. If a strong guild decides to go for 2-3 they will essentially split their strength among them and provide weaker guilds chances to contest the others. If every encounter had a fixed spawn time / a spawn time that isn't related to each other, then the strongest guilds would lock down most of them, which is bad game design.
Grievousness wrote: » @Warth You are missing the core of the problem. The main issue is not that there is no PvE content but the quality of it and how it will translate into lategame. There will be PvE content with open world dungeons and bosses that you can grind but it doesn't look like there is anything that's truly meaningfull or challenging from a purely player skill perspective. PvP players according to the poll roughly 20%, have sieges and generally the world including world bosses as their endgame. You can literally shape the face of the world and pillage people. Also I think it is foolish to assume they will just stand guard on those bosses and waste their time. Nobody wants to be a guard dog. PvE players roughly 38% have not so much at all apart from meaningless gear grind to do nothing at all in the end. World bosses won't be compareable to Mythic or savage bosses because you would never kill them since you cannot get enough wipe time /experience on them. Their is no real reason to expect that those 38% won't just quit the game in favour of a game that is delivering more meaningful PvE content.
Warth wrote: » Nobody wants them to be comparable. This isn't supposed to be a WoW clone. This isn't gonna be a WoW Clone with Instanced Raids you wipe yourself 100s of times until you finally manage to kill it.
Warth wrote: » That doesn't mean that these bosses can't be just as hard, if not harder. The difficulty just arises from different aspects, including limited amount of tries you can realistically get in. The inability to rely on add-ons telling you what to do, when to do it and how not to be an idiot. Different type of mechanics (less one-shot heavy upon screw ups). A higher margin of error in exchange for that...
Warth wrote: » and you are right. This will not be a WoW Clone. People that expect WoW type PvE Content probably won't find their primary MMO here. That's completely fine. If they want WoW 2.0, they will probably leave disappointed. This has never been designed to be it, this was never intended to be it, this will never be it.
