In other word's dont lock the audition behind a pros only sign.
But that is where the real expenses start to come in.
As I said earlier, if they find the perfect amateur voice actor for a specific role, but that actor is only able to hold that voice for a short amount of time, they have now gone from spending $5,000 on voicing that one minor character to spending $15,000 on it, and probably not having decent quality takes of every line.
You can't just cast complete unknowns, you need to know they are up to the task for a major project like this.
Small projects are fine for amateurs, not literal 8 - 9 figure projects.
Using a relatively inexperienced person is always a risk for a company.
Indeed.
I'm hiring now. Fortunately, with everything as it is, I have the benefit to be able to select from all the experience I could ever want.
Noaani Bro you just wanna argue. Come with some evidence to back up your claims not probably's. I cant even with you.
Evidence like some random YouTube video?
When I debate, I debate points. If you can't debate against the points I am making, that is on you.
Alright then anything to site the numbers that you are stating??? Anything of value? You cant say 10,000 or 15,000 without any proof. Because you have no idea how much it cost you are just throwing numbers around. If you want to debate points make a valid point please.
Edit be ready for this one. Incomplete comparison – insufficient information is provided to make a complete comparison. Hes talking about a game made in 2010 vs one now and directly comparing cost. Not only is he doing that but there are no sources (as to the cost) to that info and he states that anyone wanting to find it needs to use the way back machine lmfao!
@Noaani I understand that you think you can deduce the amount of money it takes and where it goes but your not a professional in the field. I cant just take your word for it. If you wanna send me the link to the single paragraph you read on this then I will read through it and pick it apart. That's called debating points. We can't debate imaginary numbers. Because if you wanna say oh it cost 15,000 dollars i'll just say no it cost 12 bucks. Does it matter if I'm wrong? No because neither of us have any ground to stand on. I offered my evidence and even explained how I saw the situation and me and the mod discussed it and it was over. The reason why is because we both had ground to stand on.
Alright then anything to site the numbers that you are stating?
Have you not looked up anything to do with voice acting in MMO's since you started this discussion?
I mean, you didn't look anything up before hand, that is obvious, but I expected you would have looked in to it since then.
SW:TOR cost $90,000,000 for voice acting - this is known.
SW:TOR has 200,000 lines of voiced dialog - this is known.
$90,000,000 / 200,000 is exactly $450 per line of dialoug.
If a character has 12 lines of dialoug (which is the minimum it would need to not just be generically voiced), then the cost of that would be expected to be around $5,400.
Go do some proper research if you want to debate this.
Edit to add, this is all in 2010 dollars (for a 2011 release), so adjusted for inflation that would now be $6436.
Alright then anything to site the numbers that you are stating?
Have you not looked up anythign to do with voice acting in MMO's since you started this discussion?
I mean, you didn't look anything up before hand, that is obvious, but I expected you would have looked in to it since then.
SW:TOR cost $90,000,000 for voice acting - this is known.
SW:TOR has 200,000 lines of voiced dialog - this is known.
$90,000,000 / 200,000 is exactly $450 per line of dialoug.
If a character has 12 lines of dialoug (which is the minimum it would need to not just be generically voiced), then the cost of that would be expected to be around $5,400.
Go do some proper research if you want to debate this.
Na it cost 12 bucks. Why because you are telling your debating partner to make your points for you. You have to supply your own evidence buddy.]
Edit way after the fact cus its funny: "Appeal to the stone (argumentum ad lapidem) – dismissing a claim as absurd without demonstrating proof for its absurdity.[58]"
Na it cost 12 bucks. Why because you are telling your debating partner to make your points for you. You have to supply your own evidence buddy.
No I don't.
I quoted publically available figures.
If you don't want to believe me, fine. Others coming along will look them up though - and remember, it isn't me you are trying to convince (or, at least, I hope it isn't).
@Noaani See thats the thing without providing your own evidence we could be looking at wildly different sources and the entire arguments would just fall apart. Im starting to feel like you dont have any evidence to support your claims and just wanna look smart...
Just did some fact checking You're publically available figures aren't even on the first 10 links from google.
@Noaani See thats the thing without providing your own evidence we could be looking at wildly different sources and the entire arguments would just fall apart. Im starting to feel like you dont have any evidence to support your claims and just wanna look smart...
If you go around looking up unreliable sources, you may get inaccurate figures. However, as I said, anyone else looking up those figures will find primary sources for information that matches exactly with the two figures I have given.
I do not provide sources during discussions. At all.
The main reason for this is because even though some people such as yourself think they are reasonably good at debating, one thing virtually everyone on gaming forums lacks is the ability to source facts themselves - they rely on YouTube videos without actually looking at the sources. They consider content creators to be primary sources - which they are not.
So once again, no, I will not give you any sources. Make yourself better by finding them yourself.
@Noaani You literally dont have sources. Alright. Btw I took 2 years of debate&free form arguments. Not as a class but as a club activity. Im quite well versed in debate. I used a YouTube video of a verified pro. She has quite the career. Lmao. Na, if some one else can find these imaginary numbers of yours I'll believe you then for now you seem to have 0 weight behind your words. Completely unwilling to do even the very basics. I can't, my guy you claim to know about debates while committing a fallacy. Like what are you thinking?
The info is there, you just need to go out and find it - assuming you want to verify what I have said (which is fine, I encourage you to do so).
Now, if I was sourcing things from a fairly obscure location, that wouldn't be fair of me. Problem is, I am not - it is quite easy to find the two figures I have presented.
@Noaani "The most videogame voiceover performances as the same character is 104, and was achieved by Charles Martinet (USA) voicing Mario, from 1995 to 2019 as verified on 14 August 2019." I looked up "world record for voicing a game" (I tried a few different types of that including key words like cost, creating games, ext. to try and find what your on about got nothing.)
Do you see the issue yet? I have 0 idea what you want me to type just link it. If you wont give me a link then quit responding and take the L. I get that you have no idea what to do but If I keep looking these things up and not finding out anything about your point your just gonna look worse. Give me the exact link or word for word what you want me to type.
@Noaani "The most videogame voiceover performances as the same character is 104, and was achieved by Charles Martinet (USA) voicing Mario, from 1995 to 2019 as verified on 14 August 2019." I looked up "world record for voicing a game" (I tried a few different types of that including key words like cost, creating games, ext. to try and find what your on about got nothing.)
Do you see the issue yet? I have 0 idea what you want me to type just link it. If you wont give me a link then quit responding and take the L. I get that you have no idea what to do but If I keep looking these things up and not finding out anything about your point your just gonna look worse. Give me the exact link or word for word what you want me to type.
This is what I mean, people on gaming forums have no idea how to actually do research.
There are two numbers that I stated. The first is one that has been presented in this thread already and you accepted - the $90,000,000 spent on voicing SWTOR.
The only other figure I stated is how many lines were in the game in question - and for some reason you can't seem to look that simple figure up.
If you type in something as simple as "how many lines of voiced dialoug are there in swtor", google won't even give you sources, it will just tell you outright, in giant letters, that there are 200,000. That is because this is a common knowledge fact, as it was in the Guiness Book of World Records in 2012.
Again, this is why I do not give sources, literally the only thing that has come out of this is that even when presented with actual data that is easily able to be proven, most people on gaming forums can't even figure out how to do a simple google search for a thing that they already know.
@Noaani I got you to do what I wanted right? Now word for word we are on the same page. It took a lot but I got you hook line and sinker. So you looked up figures about SWTOR and thats it. Alright. I can work with that.
Edit: Lmfao I looked up "$90,000,000 spent on voicing SWTOR." Got 8 results all of them are missing the 90,000,000 statement
Edit 2: "SWTOR how much was spent on voice acting" 0 results for 90,000,000 I did find the 200,000 voice lines but no mention on the pay for the voice lines.
I gave you the easy one after you expressing many times that you can't find it, looking like something of an idiot, I have to say. Now I have left you with the harder one to find - so have at it.
Edit; to be fair, I gave you an easy out on the harder one, pointing out that it has been stated by someone else in this thread and that you accepted it. However, you seem to not want to take that easy way out - which is great, it gives you a chance to do some actual thinking.
I gave you the easy one after you expressing many times that you can't find it, looking like something of an idiot, I have to say. Now I have left you with the harder one to find - so have at it.
Edit; to be fair, I gave you an easy out on the harder one, pointing out that it has been stated by someone else in this thread and that you accepted it. However, you seem to not want to take that easy way out - which is great, it gives you a chance to do some actual thinking.
So what your saying is that it doesn't exist? Kind of what I'm finding. Also just because I allowed the thought to cross my mind doesn't mean I agreed to it. Its called the fallacy of begging the question. I allowed him to beg the question for his bit. Does that mean I directly agree with the outcome? No. Seriously I could fill a book with the amount of fallacies you are actively committing its sad.
It exists - two of us have used the same figure now.
What I will say though, based on where I read it, is that you *may* need to use the wayback machine to get it now.
If you hadn't acted up on the first one, if you have had made even a basic attempt at looking up the facts presented to you, and then come back saying you found one and not the other, I'd then have linkedit for you.
Since you made no attempt at that first one though, that isn't happening. I'll come back tomorrow and see if you found it.
@Noaani
So first
Argument from silence (argumentum ex silentio) – assuming that a claim is true based on the absence of textual or spoken evidence from an authoritative source, or vice versa.[63]
I can't disprove its existence so you stand on your high horse saying its true.
Appeal to authority (argument from authority, argumentum ad verecundiam) – an assertion is deemed true because of the position or authority of the person asserting it.
You stating 2 of us have seen it.
Courtier's reply – a criticism is dismissed by claiming that the critic lacks sufficient knowledge, credentials, or training to credibly comment on the subject matter.
You literally say "This is what I mean, people on gaming forums have no idea how to actually do research." L
Not to mention the rest. I'll leave them as edits so that you can better understand lmao.
I think both of you lost the forest in the trees a while ago. There is nothing persuasive about beating each other over the head in an effort to be ‘right.’
Original idea was good, but I think this thread is dead.
I think both of you lost the forest in the trees a while ago. There is nothing persuasive about beating each other over the head in an effort to be ‘right.’
Original idea was good, but I think this thread is dead.
I'm less concerned about being "right", and more concerned with entertainment.
It does stagger me some times how far people will go to defend an obviously poor idea.
Don't get me wrong, voice acting in Ashes isn't a bad idea - Intrepid have said they may look at it post launch. Using amateurs for a 8 - 9 figure project though, that is a bad idea.
It is just pure entertainment to see how far the defense of this as an idea will go. I mean, he assumed both figures I gave him were made up - until I pointed out how easy it was to find one. Then instead of assuming they were both right he assumed only one was - I may just wait a few more days for them to look even stupider before actually giving them that last figure - or I may not give it at all (people that understand where a figure like that could come from and also know what the wayback machine does will potentially be able to find it).
I do have to say though, the random YouTube video presented as "proof" was enough to make me actually laugh. it is almost as if the poster was saying "it's on the internet, it MUST be true!".
@Noaani Why not just @ me? Everyone that ever looks at the thread will see who your talking about lol. Ntl I'm actually interested in your ideas it's just that I would like to see a link to the original information so I can actually piece together what you are saying. It's very easy to take information and make it support your ideas. But claiming I'd need to use the wayback machine to search for information that I don't even know if it exists or not is a tedious task. Plus you could just be saying it exists and Im getting meme on. Also, also it's funny when you use fallacies in your arguments but claim that others don't understand how to debate.
Going back to the topic as @CROW3 mentioned I still see some validity in my original post. I don't think that claiming all none pros are worse then pros is a very good argument. You can see in most fields hobbyist are good at what they do. So I still don't understand where the issue is coming from. I haven't brought it up yet because I was interested in debating cost with @Noaani but you don't have the data so GG on that.
Also, also, also I don't mind if the thread died its been entertaining for awhile I'm glad I got some feedback and I plan to, when we are much closer to launch, come back with this Idea and open up the topic again. At that time I should have changed so much of the idea that it warrants a new discussion.
Im thinking about doing some really in depth research and finding better ways to source competent voices for a project like this. Because even if they don't end up using any of it. It's a neat concept I think.
I don't think that claiming all none pros are worse then pros is a very good argument.
I'm not saying that all are, I am saying it is too much money to risk.
If you have to put a $500 bet on something with a proven successful track record or something with no track record, the smart money is on the proven successful track record. Over the course of a thousand or so voice actors (remember, multiple languages) this will absolutely work to your favor. While hobbists may be good at what they do in some fields (absolutely not most), that doesn't mean their productivity is on par.
Both in my current field (undisclosed) and in my previous field (chef), I have always blatantly refused to hire hobbists. While someone that is able to cook a good family meal may think they can cook professionally, as soon as you point out to them that they are going to have to cook for 120 people in 3 hours, and those 120 people have the choice of 18 different things (and most will order at least two of those things), the hobbists quickly realize they are out of their depth.
Voice acting is the same. People may think they are able to do a good job, but as soon as they hit a professional studio, most of them don't even know how to talk in to the microphone without instruction.
Again, voice acting Ashes is all fine - if Intrepid think the investment will pay off. Using amateurs is a bad idea though.
@Noaani Sorry real life kicked in or a bit I've been doubling at work.
I'll meet you in the middle. Depending on the actor the case will vary, but pros for the most part 1 to 1 will be better. I'll definitely look into tests that voice actors can do to prove their own competence and show what they are made of on a professional scale to hopefully help cut some of the cost with voicing a game this large. If they choose to use it. I wouldn't be mad if they don't.
Comments
Indeed.
I'm hiring now. Fortunately, with everything as it is, I have the benefit to be able to select from all the experience I could ever want.
Evidence like some random YouTube video?
When I debate, I debate points. If you can't debate against the points I am making, that is on you.
Alright then anything to site the numbers that you are stating??? Anything of value? You cant say 10,000 or 15,000 without any proof. Because you have no idea how much it cost you are just throwing numbers around. If you want to debate points make a valid point please.
Edit be ready for this one. Incomplete comparison – insufficient information is provided to make a complete comparison. Hes talking about a game made in 2010 vs one now and directly comparing cost. Not only is he doing that but there are no sources (as to the cost) to that info and he states that anyone wanting to find it needs to use the way back machine lmfao!
I mean, you didn't look anything up before hand, that is obvious, but I expected you would have looked in to it since then.
SW:TOR cost $90,000,000 for voice acting - this is known.
SW:TOR has 200,000 lines of voiced dialog - this is known.
$90,000,000 / 200,000 is exactly $450 per line of dialoug.
If a character has 12 lines of dialoug (which is the minimum it would need to not just be generically voiced), then the cost of that would be expected to be around $5,400.
Go do some proper research if you want to debate this.
Edit to add, this is all in 2010 dollars (for a 2011 release), so adjusted for inflation that would now be $6436.
Na it cost 12 bucks. Why because you are telling your debating partner to make your points for you. You have to supply your own evidence buddy.]
Edit way after the fact cus its funny: "Appeal to the stone (argumentum ad lapidem) – dismissing a claim as absurd without demonstrating proof for its absurdity.[58]"
I quoted publically available figures.
If you don't want to believe me, fine. Others coming along will look them up though - and remember, it isn't me you are trying to convince (or, at least, I hope it isn't).
Just did some fact checking You're publically available figures aren't even on the first 10 links from google.
If you go around looking up unreliable sources, you may get inaccurate figures. However, as I said, anyone else looking up those figures will find primary sources for information that matches exactly with the two figures I have given.
I do not provide sources during discussions. At all.
The main reason for this is because even though some people such as yourself think they are reasonably good at debating, one thing virtually everyone on gaming forums lacks is the ability to source facts themselves - they rely on YouTube videos without actually looking at the sources. They consider content creators to be primary sources - which they are not.
So once again, no, I will not give you any sources. Make yourself better by finding them yourself.
The info is there, you just need to go out and find it - assuming you want to verify what I have said (which is fine, I encourage you to do so).
Now, if I was sourcing things from a fairly obscure location, that wouldn't be fair of me. Problem is, I am not - it is quite easy to find the two figures I have presented.
Do you see the issue yet? I have 0 idea what you want me to type just link it. If you wont give me a link then quit responding and take the L. I get that you have no idea what to do but If I keep looking these things up and not finding out anything about your point your just gonna look worse. Give me the exact link or word for word what you want me to type.
This is what I mean, people on gaming forums have no idea how to actually do research.
There are two numbers that I stated. The first is one that has been presented in this thread already and you accepted - the $90,000,000 spent on voicing SWTOR.
The only other figure I stated is how many lines were in the game in question - and for some reason you can't seem to look that simple figure up.
If you type in something as simple as "how many lines of voiced dialoug are there in swtor", google won't even give you sources, it will just tell you outright, in giant letters, that there are 200,000. That is because this is a common knowledge fact, as it was in the Guiness Book of World Records in 2012.
Again, this is why I do not give sources, literally the only thing that has come out of this is that even when presented with actual data that is easily able to be proven, most people on gaming forums can't even figure out how to do a simple google search for a thing that they already know.
Edit: Lmfao I looked up "$90,000,000 spent on voicing SWTOR." Got 8 results all of them are missing the 90,000,000 statement
Edit 2: "SWTOR how much was spent on voice acting" 0 results for 90,000,000 I did find the 200,000 voice lines but no mention on the pay for the voice lines.
Nope.
I gave you the easy one after you expressing many times that you can't find it, looking like something of an idiot, I have to say. Now I have left you with the harder one to find - so have at it.
Edit; to be fair, I gave you an easy out on the harder one, pointing out that it has been stated by someone else in this thread and that you accepted it. However, you seem to not want to take that easy way out - which is great, it gives you a chance to do some actual thinking.
So what your saying is that it doesn't exist? Kind of what I'm finding. Also just because I allowed the thought to cross my mind doesn't mean I agreed to it. Its called the fallacy of begging the question. I allowed him to beg the question for his bit. Does that mean I directly agree with the outcome? No. Seriously I could fill a book with the amount of fallacies you are actively committing its sad.
What I will say though, based on where I read it, is that you *may* need to use the wayback machine to get it now.
If you hadn't acted up on the first one, if you have had made even a basic attempt at looking up the facts presented to you, and then come back saying you found one and not the other, I'd then have linkedit for you.
Since you made no attempt at that first one though, that isn't happening. I'll come back tomorrow and see if you found it.
So first
Argument from silence (argumentum ex silentio) – assuming that a claim is true based on the absence of textual or spoken evidence from an authoritative source, or vice versa.[63]
I can't disprove its existence so you stand on your high horse saying its true.
Appeal to authority (argument from authority, argumentum ad verecundiam) – an assertion is deemed true because of the position or authority of the person asserting it.
You stating 2 of us have seen it.
Courtier's reply – a criticism is dismissed by claiming that the critic lacks sufficient knowledge, credentials, or training to credibly comment on the subject matter.
You literally say "This is what I mean, people on gaming forums have no idea how to actually do research." L
Not to mention the rest. I'll leave them as edits so that you can better understand lmao.
Original idea was good, but I think this thread is dead.
I'm less concerned about being "right", and more concerned with entertainment.
It does stagger me some times how far people will go to defend an obviously poor idea.
Don't get me wrong, voice acting in Ashes isn't a bad idea - Intrepid have said they may look at it post launch. Using amateurs for a 8 - 9 figure project though, that is a bad idea.
It is just pure entertainment to see how far the defense of this as an idea will go. I mean, he assumed both figures I gave him were made up - until I pointed out how easy it was to find one. Then instead of assuming they were both right he assumed only one was - I may just wait a few more days for them to look even stupider before actually giving them that last figure - or I may not give it at all (people that understand where a figure like that could come from and also know what the wayback machine does will potentially be able to find it).
I do have to say though, the random YouTube video presented as "proof" was enough to make me actually laugh. it is almost as if the poster was saying "it's on the internet, it MUST be true!".
Going back to the topic as @CROW3 mentioned I still see some validity in my original post. I don't think that claiming all none pros are worse then pros is a very good argument. You can see in most fields hobbyist are good at what they do. So I still don't understand where the issue is coming from. I haven't brought it up yet because I was interested in debating cost with @Noaani but you don't have the data so GG on that.
Also, also, also I don't mind if the thread died its been entertaining for awhile I'm glad I got some feedback and I plan to, when we are much closer to launch, come back with this Idea and open up the topic again. At that time I should have changed so much of the idea that it warrants a new discussion.
Im thinking about doing some really in depth research and finding better ways to source competent voices for a project like this. Because even if they don't end up using any of it. It's a neat concept I think.
I'm not saying that all are, I am saying it is too much money to risk.
If you have to put a $500 bet on something with a proven successful track record or something with no track record, the smart money is on the proven successful track record. Over the course of a thousand or so voice actors (remember, multiple languages) this will absolutely work to your favor. While hobbists may be good at what they do in some fields (absolutely not most), that doesn't mean their productivity is on par.
Both in my current field (undisclosed) and in my previous field (chef), I have always blatantly refused to hire hobbists. While someone that is able to cook a good family meal may think they can cook professionally, as soon as you point out to them that they are going to have to cook for 120 people in 3 hours, and those 120 people have the choice of 18 different things (and most will order at least two of those things), the hobbists quickly realize they are out of their depth.
Voice acting is the same. People may think they are able to do a good job, but as soon as they hit a professional studio, most of them don't even know how to talk in to the microphone without instruction.
Again, voice acting Ashes is all fine - if Intrepid think the investment will pay off. Using amateurs is a bad idea though.
I'll meet you in the middle. Depending on the actor the case will vary, but pros for the most part 1 to 1 will be better. I'll definitely look into tests that voice actors can do to prove their own competence and show what they are made of on a professional scale to hopefully help cut some of the cost with voicing a game this large. If they choose to use it. I wouldn't be mad if they don't.