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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
This doesn't even make sense. If you can simply just "attack" another player why would anyone need to primitively "enable" attacks on another player? lol. Unless this enables attacks on group/guild mates to allow for duel/messing around mechanic I can see no reason why anyone would use this in a potential hostile pvp situation.
Neither of these options solve the issue or explain your designation above related to "flagging up" before combat. You specifically used the words "plenty of time to flag up" and "could have flagged up" which again if a character has no range attacks, limited range attacks or of course if they're not the person in the group who should be initiating the fight to begin with I'm not following how they had plenty of time or could have flagged up. Your explanation here does nothing to resolve the fact there will be non-combatants in a party when pvp starts that could and likely should be priority targets.
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
I'd appreciate if you don't call me dense seeing as I'm just reading the words you wrote. See again your own words above. "left it possible for one class to completely evade another for the entire duration of a mostly even fight." If this player is "evading you" are they not out of range? Are they some how dodging your tab target abilities? Explain this and maybe i'll understand how it's not a range requirement issue.
Is it uncommon for certain classes to have kite abilities vs others in MMOs? They've made it very clear that the classes are not going to be balanced in 1v1 combat so it's arguably reasonable to assume some classes will be able to dirt nap others which may involve being able to "evade" their attacks. Lets just take a quick example here.
Ranger Kiting a Tank - while the tank may get some version of "charge", "stampede", "jump", "lunge" etc etc there is no guarantee this ability would be a max range option or equal to the rangers bow range. We also do not know how the skill/ability trees will rank up by points. Is it possible the more points you spend in your bow skill (or passive bow abilities) that my give your character additional range, while the tank could theoretically do the same thing if he hasn't spent his points there do you not think it's possible he could get kited? If he is getting kited - per your example of "cast button" vs "hit requirement" it seems reasonable to consider this an "out of range" cast, yes?
There will be no pure balance since you will be given choice on build and how it plays. Maybe this tank is really strong vs other melee classes but suffers vs range. The point being is he should be given the option to flag regardless of his build and your opinion if it sucks or not.
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
This is what I was talking about when you questioned what I was talking about - a question I am still unsure of the reason for, as surely you knew this.
If you are unaware that "flag up" in terms of an action would be the same as enabling force attack in Ashes, I am not sure what more to say.
Again, this is either total ignorance on your part, or another attempt to divert the conversation away in to the mundane.
You really need to try to stay on the actual topic and not try to take us all on these little side tangents of yours.
Wait so I'm supposed to understand that when you say flag up it means the same thing as some obscure reference to "enable force attack" while neither relate to the other for the purpose of this thread in general? right....
Lets do this since you're claiming enabling force attack would be the same thing. Here is your paragraph but let's use the right words instead of "flag up" since that is clearly not what you mean right?
So what exactly is solved by this that you felt it was relevant to bring to our attention?
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
If you have enabled force attack on a character, then in theory all you need to do to become a combatant is to begin casting an ability on them.
The check for this - we have reason to assume - happens on activation, not on actual casting of the ability, so we have no reason to assume that a failed activation won't also flag you (failed due, perhaps, to being CC'd).
This means the only reaction a player realistically needs is in relation to enabling force attack,an action for which they have an absurdly long time to perform.
This means the scenario where a player is killed before being able to flag simply should never happen, unless the player was asleep.
This seems like a reach if there ever was one, to try and explain your version of "flag up". This is suggesting that the game is going to determine intent of a failed activation to flag our characters? I'll give you this, you will dig the hole as deep as you need to go for that reply.
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
The check for flagging in relation to healers is being put at the start of the cast as opposed to the end of the cast.
This is a known fact. Look it up on Ashes 101 if you want.
Since this is known and not in dispute (go for it, if you want that discussion again), then we can make an assumption that this will hold true for all abilities, not just for heals. There is no need to produce a second system for the exact same purpose if there is already one in place, especially if that existing system will work just fine in all situations.
While it is an assumption until we hear otherwise, it is a fairly safe assumption to make right now. Assuming that flagging will happen at the end of the cast is also an assumption, but it is one without any current basis other than it is what some other games do.
So, you either assume one thing that has at least some grounding, or you assume something that currently doesn't. Both are assumptions, that is not up for debate, however, one has at least some grounding and one doesn't.
So no, not much of a reach.
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
Yes, I do, and you'll not I said several times that it is an assumption.
However, I am sure you will agree that it makes sense that after specifically turning on force attack on a player, the act of attempting to then attack that player should be enough to toggle combatant status, even if the hit doesn't actually land.
By that point, the intent of the player has been made clear.
Since this is a system that needs to be designed anyway for healers, there is no real need to develop a parallel system for other classes.
That said, if you go back, this isn't the point. The point is - in the situations where you think this toggle will be used, almost without exception, players have more than enough time to flag up.
don't you necromancers have some method of reading fate?
Tossing bones or something?
What do they say?
You keep saying flag up... which you're not doing by enable force attack per your own admission.
Noaani wrote: »
This doesn't flag you as a combatant, it simply means your attacks are now able to land on the player in question.
If this "enable force attack" doesn't work how you expect it to, then do you at least see the reason why flagging up as combatant before a fight is going to be important? It seems like you agree from the stand point of "players will have more than enough time to flag up" ?
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
Im pretty sure he did not mean that open world pvp is a secondary system but that the corruption system is the secondary system, which it is. It's a system in place to help prevent griefing but they also try to incorporate it into the game naturally by also having the bounty hunter system. Flagging itself is not what the open world pvp is about. Open world pvp like Noaani has said is meant to have meaning behind it.
The caravan system is one of those ways Intrepid is introducing meaningful open world pvp into the game. There's a goal and a reward for those that attack and those that defend. There's meaning in that. Randomly attacking players is not meaningful which is why Intrepid has put a corruption system in AOC. That's the whole point of the system. You can still attack players in the open world randomly, it doesn't matter what color they are, all that matters is if it's worth it for YOU to attack them. You get more loot from players that you attack if they remain green, but then you gain corruption. You get less loot from those that flag but then you don't gain corruption. It's supposed to make you think twice before attacking someone and only encourage to attack someone if it's really worth it. Having a toggle to change your flag state undermines this system and the dangers that come with attacking someone.
"Flag up" is the colloquial term used in every MMO ever to denote the action you need to undertake in order to engage in PvP.
In Ashes, that action is enabling force attack. Even if that doesn't change your combatant status, it is still the action that needs to be performed.
Ergo, in Ashes, flagging up is synonymous with enabling force attack. If the system is drastically different from what I have attempted to explain to you is what we should be assuming it will be (based on what we have been told), then I would agree that something may well need to be changed.
That thing that may need to change does not necessarily need to bea toggle though.
The only thing necessary to make a toggle absolutely redundant is for there to be enough time for players to flag up from when PvP becomes obvious. There are many, many ways this could be achieved, and the way the system works as far as we know is only one such way. If it isn't working, Intrepid could just attempt a different method of giving players that required time.
@Nagash a bit of progress. I think we are almost there, to be honest - but I do hope someone asks about this in a Q&A.
I'm happy to hear that
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
I am confused Jeff is confused. Perhaps it wasnt necessary coding at this stage of the production, but the flagging system and the /force attack either in the form of:
1) Holding down a key(L2 2003)
2) /force Fireball forceskill choice hotbar(L2 improvement)
3) Or 2 toggle redisigns from Intrepid to allow your action combat abilities to only apply to purple targets or any targets(if you aim to PK)
still maintains the system.
Your original proposal of /flagOn toggle, without landind a strike, dilutes many aspects of AoC open world PvP.
We can go for another 20 pages if you like, or you can pause and think about the information given to you and see the big picture of a PvP world you have not experienced before (not PvE friendly, not unrestricted PvP).
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts