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Replayability Ideas

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Comments

  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    frostborn4 wrote: »
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    [quote="Dolyem;c-255938"

    But in the end, the power should not increase by magnitudes, so even a veteran can be bested by its counter-play class and styles all the same.

    I can almost guarantee that once a player hears they wont be able to pass certain players up in power that they won't even bother with the game. Many players aim to be competitive and outplay others in the game.

    But if they are told that they cannot pass up another player, they are being lied to. ANYONE can be more skillful. Lets say you make a Rogue that is very adept at building full damage and nearly instantly killing the other player. When someone tells you that's the ONLY way to play because you cannot beat it, I bet you also lose all hope and quit the game?

    AoC, as far as I know, will have counters. And a counter will mean more than a little power increase. Its not like i'm advocating for extreme power creep. But a reason to continue on can only be helpful for the game's player base in general?
    When you are told that the other player only has a 2% advantage. Do you quit the game? When you are told that you can only do half the damage as the guy who's played the game the most in the world, do you quit the game? No, you probably say 'well how can I get up to that point, or build my own skillset to show I am better skilled then a little damage advantage'

    Sure, but I am being realistic. The PvP community that will be playing this is going to be full of min/maxxers both at the start and later when people hear about the game post-release. The only players that would want this system are players starting from day 1 so they can benefit the most from it and gain an advantage. Its not a matter of players quitting the game because they'd have the same benefits from day 1, the matter is about new players hearing that even if they have the same gear and skill level as a player who started a year before them, the veteran player will have stat boosts just from being around longer that the new player won't be able to attain, or if they can it won't be until they put in a lot of game time playing catch up. And realistically speaking that will make a player not want to bother with the game, especially if they are a competitive player. Now my question for you is why would this game need that mechanic? Would it really provide a beneficial and engaging gameplay mechanic? Or is it to just make long time players feel good about themselves and possibly have an advantage over other newer players? Hell I plan on being in this game day 1 and I don't see any need to give myself even a slight buff over someone who plays later. Stats in game should have the same attainability regardless of if the player is new or old, that way it really is skill that decides the outcome.


    I agree that it should be about 'skill'. But I disagree that a new player will be swayed against playing because they dont have the same 'advantages'. Take a look at other games that have high skill caps. Do u see people deterred because they aren't great yet? or do they invest time to get better? its not like its an overwhelming advantage. and it does greatly provide incentive to play more.

    The only advantage a veteran player should have over a newer players is time played, they don't need an added stat boost for already having an advantage over new players by knowing more about the game. I still want to hear how this mechanic would benefit the game other than purposely giving veteran players a stat advantage over new players. What is it accomplishing? How does it make the game better at all?

    I believe the idea behind how it benefits the game, is it provides a way for people who focus more on combat and completion, to be rewarded for doing so. Clearly there will be a stronger max-level character vs your level-35 character because you started over. But when you reach back to the maximum level; you are slightly more powerful then you would have been previously. That is not to say that suddenly you cannot take damage from anyone ever again, or that you do 10x their damage. Obviously there could be ideas and inputs to balance these 'benefits' more. And clearly there would be a CAP (8? 16? 32? 64?) on how many you could do; so its not like someone at the top could never be caught up to. And not each class 'benefits' would need to be the same thing. So maybe you gain benefits to survivability from having been a tank; or perhaps you receive benefits to your max mana and mana regeneration from having been a mage. Things like these, that are in small amounts, should not even make the difference between losing to a higher-skilled opponent, and losing to a higher-skilled opponent with your higher stats. Its not like you wont see people build min-maxxed PVP toons specifically to fight in a 1v1 and win quickly. You would still lose almost as badly as you would have otherwise. But by having these bonuses you feel good by doing them, and can benefit slightly by being more competitive in pvp or pve content.

    Ideally, the boosts should not be something so game-breaking as to be too powerful that you could never be killed by a character without these bonuses; but from videos of gameplay, that would not be an issue at all. Clearly skill and tactics would work much more.

    Still not hearing how it makes the game better... All You are doing is explaining the mechanic, I get it. Play for a long time, gain stat bonuses for it. I want to know how it would benefit gameplay at all to have a mechanic that provides an edge NO MATTER HOW SMALL over newer players. I personally find the idea of constantly re-leveling my character just for miniscule upgrades to be exhausting. It sounds like a time-sink more than an opportunity to have an enjoyable experience. If I want another playthrough, making another unique characters sounds much more appealing, and I get to keep my original character so I can go back to it. If you really want a "prestige" system as I would call it (referring to call of duty hurts my soul), do it simply as a flex mechanic. instead of an outright advantage incentive though stat boost, just reward cosmetic skins or titles. That's incentive enough. And it doesn't give the player an unnecessary edge.

    As seen by the other response, I posted some more on the advantages.

    But more to your point, you are somewhat right. It is an exhausting experience potentially; and thus not all players would go that extra mile obviously. But then to my own point, that's the whole point. those that DO go the extra mile are rewarded more then those that just want to get in, see if they got it, and quit.

    But you do raise another point; that if character advancements for this extra work is not the right way to go, it could be a cosmetic only reward type of thing.

    Also more on balance; as this game seems to be hugely impacted by social groups. Lets say you make a group of 8 people. They all perfect their PVP class and group fighting.

    Now those fight another group of long-time veterans, who just happen to be a group of IRL friends that only have 5 people.

    CLEARLY the 8 will win against the 5. No matter how much game-knowledge those veterans may have, they simply cannot beat these 8 others.

    But lets say that the 5 long-time veterans have some advantages, then it makes it a more even fight; even if its still one-sided for the group of 8 to win.

    Otherwise social norm says: Just get more people. Combat effectiveness doesn't matter. Only numbers matter.

    Edit:
    And to that point- new players wont have their social circles or groupies. So the group of 8 will always be the veterans and will always win anyway; therefore combat advantages for 'rebirth' system is pretty meaningless in open-world pvp.

    Your post was mentioning advantages for the players receiving the buffs, the games community as a whole really wouldn't benefit. And being rewarded for gritting your teeth and playing through repetitive content that eats up time is not good game content, thats the sort of thing companies add to games when they are losing players due to lack of content and they can't think of anything fun to do so they just throw that in until they can think of something.

    And I don't mean to seem like I am trying to argue everything you say but as far as numbers in a fight go, there are wayyy more variables than that. 8 players could massacre a group of 5 veteran players, but it could go the other way around depending on how good or bad each group is at PvP, their groups communication, the gear they wear, one groups classes could completely counter the other, group synchronization where the classes can benefit better or suffer due to some classes not playing off anothers strengths. Trust me, as someone who has played many games where I actively ran in smaller groups to fight greater numbers, your numbers don't count for crap if you cant outplay the other team. And as far as equally matched teams fighting each other, that "slight" stat advantage will be cheating the new players of a possible victory even though they were so closely matched with a veteran group, which isn't ok. The veterans should win with skill, not because they had slightly better stats. And since veterans will have social circles on top of game experience, WHY do they need any more advantage? So I say just stick with cosmetic rewards if any rewards at all.

    Certainly, I can see where you are coming from. But I, as an avid gamer, also believe that hard work should be rewarded. Weather that be through practice to get the skills you need for action-combat, or growing stronger to compete with those that start out the game with massive skills on their alts. I'm sure if any toon had achieved some 'growth' it could also be displayed in the title of their name or something to show that they have a slight advantage and have done it all before. So open world pvp'ers are like 'hey, we cant handle him solo. lets get 16 people and beat him'
    as an example; this would immensely include the social aspects of PVP and open world to some degree.

    to that extent, however; please note that the way this game is designed; if you play one character and then restart, you will likely have a vastly different experience, and mostly unique, compared to the first. For many reasons; including social groups possible, combats, monsters available, and based on locations. etc. etc. So to say that 'starting over is just a grind' is not really accurate in my opinion.

    Leveling up is reward, finding better gear is reward, unlocking news skills is reward. But so long as the rewards arent unattainable to others. Spent a lot of time playing? Awesome, you probably have cosmetics from pre order packs and more knowledge about the game. You still do not need any stat increases just because you have been around longer. Want better stats? Get better gear. the entire argument I am making is stat boosts for more time played are unnecessary and should not be a game mechanic. The only reward you could argue for a "prestige" system would be purely cosmetic crap that doesn't affect gameplay.

    I suppose I do see where you are coming from. But my argument is more of to advocate for replayability and to that matter, encourage people to spend time in the levels 1-49, and not only the max level.

    To me, variety matters. Replayability is a vast majority of variety to a certain extent. Having replayability be part of the 'augmented powerups' system would encourage people to not just make a toon, rush to cap, and THEN do raids. Then when that gets boring, you are just stuck waiting for a new update in most games. It is yet to be seen how that plays out with AoC; but if the game is 90% centered around end-game and raids; this will ultimately become boring for a lot of players. Mostly those that seek 'challenges' and 'adventure' and 'putting in the work for the reward'.

    That is not to say that a cosmetic-only reward could not be used instead. I'm just advocating for actual power growth because that makes it seemingly a goal for everyone, not just those that want all the collectables.

    I'm also advocating for achievable balanced upgrades. Not saying that suddenly if all the older players do this, they become unstoppable. But surely you would require to do this if you plan to min-max.
    But again, even then, the bonuses should not be staggeringly large.

    It could even be as simple as, there is a unique augment slot. This slot is tied to a 'rebirth' system. When you 'rebirth' as one class, you unlock the use of the augment. But you must start at a lower level as compensation to unlock it.
    With that, suddenly now EVERYONE can achieve it in miniscule time. there is no more pvp advantages. Would that make it more appropriate for you?

    I mean if replayability is your main concern I really wouldn't worry too much my dude. The way the systems are being implemented some servers may not ever even get through all of the available raids or dungeons based off of server choices via upgrading certain nodes and whether or not certain questlines are successful. On top of that, if players do ever want to play some content that isnt available they then do more content through sieges which could or could not be successful the first time, and then having to upgrade other nodes to unlock new content once they do succeed in the siege. This also resets things for citizens of said node, causing them to have to rebuild. Another good thing for replayability is that since every server will be different, that means that youtube guides will be server specific, and the meta rush for information to complete content will not circulate as quickly as other MMO's, keeping content fresher because less people are figuring out certain raids and their mechanics. The entire games replayability is actually pretty astonishing in its current design when you look closely at it.
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  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    And honestly even as an augment it just doesnt sound appealing. I would want players to progress forward, not revert back to things for rewards.
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  • ilisfetilisfet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Without reading the OP yet, the key to replayability is finely tuned gameplay.

    ULTRAKILL's demo is 15 minutes long, and I played it for 12 hours before early access began. There are no achievements, there are no stat grinds, no points or currencies to farm, no alts. It's just gameplay playtested to perfection. The act of playing itself is reward enough to continue, replaying the same levels over and over again. It's pure fun.

    Finely tuned gameplay is fun in isolation; intrinsicly rewarding.

    As soon as you add extrinsic rewards, the intrinsic ones are gone. And they don't come back if you remove the extrinsic ones. Passion becomes a job, and that change is irreversible. There's multiple studies on this phenomenon in children; where a group of kids that already express interest in an activity or toy have ultimately less interest in it if they are expressly rewarded for it versus those for whom no reward was mentioned or given at all.


    Now, to read OP...

    There's not much for me to say that hasn't been said already so I've only got 2 blips to blap:

    Unexpected extrinsic rewards can prevent the conversion into a job, so those stat boosts for major achievements may work. As long as its hidden until achieved, it shouldn't ruin the intrinsic reward.

    I hate achievements for the very reason they ruin the fun of a game. It's a tough hate to put into words, but my first half to this helps in that regard. They're extrinsic rewards. As soon as that pop up dings, whatever intrinsic awe and satisfaction I had is gone as I realize what I thought would be my own little secret is in fact a tourist attraction. Getting the dopamine hit of an achievement changes the goal of play from enjoying the experience to clearing a laundry list of chores. I play games for much longer when "100%" is not a concern. I disabled the Steam overlay just to get rid of achievement popups and find myself enjoying things significantly more than when I was notified of achievements.
  • frostborn4frostborn4 Member, Alpha Two
    ilisfet wrote: »
    Without reading the OP yet, the key to replayability is finely tuned gameplay.

    ULTRAKILL's demo is 15 minutes long, and I played it for 12 hours before early access began. There are no achievements, there are no stat grinds, no points or currencies to farm, no alts. It's just gameplay playtested to perfection. The act of playing itself is reward enough to continue, replaying the same levels over and over again. It's pure fun.

    Finely tuned gameplay is fun in isolation; intrinsicly rewarding.

    As soon as you add extrinsic rewards, the intrinsic ones are gone. And they don't come back if you remove the extrinsic ones. Passion becomes a job, and that change is irreversible. There's multiple studies on this phenomenon in children; where a group of kids that already express interest in an activity or toy have ultimately less interest in it if they are expressly rewarded for it versus those for whom no reward was mentioned or given at all.


    Now, to read OP...

    There's not much for me to say that hasn't been said already so I've only got 2 blips to blap:

    Unexpected extrinsic rewards can prevent the conversion into a job, so those stat boosts for major achievements may work. As long as its hidden until achieved, it shouldn't ruin the intrinsic reward.

    I hate achievements for the very reason they ruin the fun of a game. It's a tough hate to put into words, but my first half to this helps in that regard. They're extrinsic rewards. As soon as that pop up dings, whatever intrinsic awe and satisfaction I had is gone as I realize what I thought would be my own little secret is in fact a tourist attraction. Getting the dopamine hit of an achievement changes the goal of play from enjoying the experience to clearing a laundry list of chores. I play games for much longer when "100%" is not a concern. I disabled the Steam overlay just to get rid of achievement popups and find myself enjoying things significantly more than when I was notified of achievements.

    I agree with your first bit on the perfecting things. But not everyone has that sort of mindset, and in fact not many do. That being said, however, your concerns about this sort of 'reward' becoming a 'list of chores' is certainly a scare for any player. But as seen by many many many games before (such as RuneScape's grinding), it becomes a niche in many people's interests.

    My intent with this would certainly not want this to become a 'grind' and a 'chore'. Rather, its something that is rewarding the player for doing so by allowing progression in different aspects of the game; as well as a reward for doing so on one character. The point is also to be that this does not become overwhelmingly powerful. Skill certainly should be better and win out over small advantages; but said advantages would be liked by anyone who would rather invest dedication and work into growth by playing different content; rather then just grinding the same level over-and-over until you've reached that 12-hour perfectionist play-through.

    That being said; as pvp has no similarities most of the time, and because the devs have promised RNG variability gameplay in PVE content, there is no way to get that 12-hour perfectionist play-through. And the devs have iterated on that they want it to be the dynamic way, where the game adjusts based on the party performance etc.

    However, certainly rewards could remain hidden. Stating that the reward is an achievement / cosmetic reward; and at the end they receive a small boost (maybe hidden boost?). I would not disagree that this could be a great way to go.

    Maybe even the reward for doing so, is that you gain a benefit in EXP gain rate, and a increased drop-rate from all monsters. This could also be seen as an advantage to dedicated work while still not disrupting any sort of achievable stats in-game.

    However, the 'legendary gear' talked about from regional bosses is probably THAT much higher of a boost in terms of effectiveness that simply having a piece of that gear would make any sort of bonus from -rebirth- gains that you could never win anyway. I've had my fair share of games where the game was fun until you hit end-game where you realize that you have 20% effective gear as opposed to long-time-veterans and that all content was hard-locked until you spent the next 3 weeks grinding the same raid over-and-over-and-over until you get the pieces needed to make the gear that lets you hit 60% effectiveness that then you can enter another raid to continue rinse-and-repeat. Honestly such a game was boring very quickly to me (Neverwinter). It only lasted in the lvls between 1 and (max - 1). After that the game was just a chore and boring.

    I would hate to see another game come down to 'this game is 95% end-game. The first lvls until cap is only 5%.' Then the game just becomes another distraction from work and thats all. You cannot get 'better' except to only obtain the end-game gear. That becomes the worst type of game IMO.
  • frostborn4frostborn4 Member, Alpha Two
    Dolyem wrote: »
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    [quote="Dolyem;c-255938"

    But in the end, the power should not increase by magnitudes, so even a veteran can be bested by its counter-play class and styles all the same.

    I can almost guarantee that once a player hears they wont be able to pass certain players up in power that they won't even bother with the game. Many players aim to be competitive and outplay others in the game.

    But if they are told that they cannot pass up another player, they are being lied to. ANYONE can be more skillful. Lets say you make a Rogue that is very adept at building full damage and nearly instantly killing the other player. When someone tells you that's the ONLY way to play because you cannot beat it, I bet you also lose all hope and quit the game?

    AoC, as far as I know, will have counters. And a counter will mean more than a little power increase. Its not like i'm advocating for extreme power creep. But a reason to continue on can only be helpful for the game's player base in general?
    When you are told that the other player only has a 2% advantage. Do you quit the game? When you are told that you can only do half the damage as the guy who's played the game the most in the world, do you quit the game? No, you probably say 'well how can I get up to that point, or build my own skillset to show I am better skilled then a little damage advantage'

    Sure, but I am being realistic. The PvP community that will be playing this is going to be full of min/maxxers both at the start and later when people hear about the game post-release. The only players that would want this system are players starting from day 1 so they can benefit the most from it and gain an advantage. Its not a matter of players quitting the game because they'd have the same benefits from day 1, the matter is about new players hearing that even if they have the same gear and skill level as a player who started a year before them, the veteran player will have stat boosts just from being around longer that the new player won't be able to attain, or if they can it won't be until they put in a lot of game time playing catch up. And realistically speaking that will make a player not want to bother with the game, especially if they are a competitive player. Now my question for you is why would this game need that mechanic? Would it really provide a beneficial and engaging gameplay mechanic? Or is it to just make long time players feel good about themselves and possibly have an advantage over other newer players? Hell I plan on being in this game day 1 and I don't see any need to give myself even a slight buff over someone who plays later. Stats in game should have the same attainability regardless of if the player is new or old, that way it really is skill that decides the outcome.


    I agree that it should be about 'skill'. But I disagree that a new player will be swayed against playing because they dont have the same 'advantages'. Take a look at other games that have high skill caps. Do u see people deterred because they aren't great yet? or do they invest time to get better? its not like its an overwhelming advantage. and it does greatly provide incentive to play more.

    The only advantage a veteran player should have over a newer players is time played, they don't need an added stat boost for already having an advantage over new players by knowing more about the game. I still want to hear how this mechanic would benefit the game other than purposely giving veteran players a stat advantage over new players. What is it accomplishing? How does it make the game better at all?

    I believe the idea behind how it benefits the game, is it provides a way for people who focus more on combat and completion, to be rewarded for doing so. Clearly there will be a stronger max-level character vs your level-35 character because you started over. But when you reach back to the maximum level; you are slightly more powerful then you would have been previously. That is not to say that suddenly you cannot take damage from anyone ever again, or that you do 10x their damage. Obviously there could be ideas and inputs to balance these 'benefits' more. And clearly there would be a CAP (8? 16? 32? 64?) on how many you could do; so its not like someone at the top could never be caught up to. And not each class 'benefits' would need to be the same thing. So maybe you gain benefits to survivability from having been a tank; or perhaps you receive benefits to your max mana and mana regeneration from having been a mage. Things like these, that are in small amounts, should not even make the difference between losing to a higher-skilled opponent, and losing to a higher-skilled opponent with your higher stats. Its not like you wont see people build min-maxxed PVP toons specifically to fight in a 1v1 and win quickly. You would still lose almost as badly as you would have otherwise. But by having these bonuses you feel good by doing them, and can benefit slightly by being more competitive in pvp or pve content.

    Ideally, the boosts should not be something so game-breaking as to be too powerful that you could never be killed by a character without these bonuses; but from videos of gameplay, that would not be an issue at all. Clearly skill and tactics would work much more.

    Still not hearing how it makes the game better... All You are doing is explaining the mechanic, I get it. Play for a long time, gain stat bonuses for it. I want to know how it would benefit gameplay at all to have a mechanic that provides an edge NO MATTER HOW SMALL over newer players. I personally find the idea of constantly re-leveling my character just for miniscule upgrades to be exhausting. It sounds like a time-sink more than an opportunity to have an enjoyable experience. If I want another playthrough, making another unique characters sounds much more appealing, and I get to keep my original character so I can go back to it. If you really want a "prestige" system as I would call it (referring to call of duty hurts my soul), do it simply as a flex mechanic. instead of an outright advantage incentive though stat boost, just reward cosmetic skins or titles. That's incentive enough. And it doesn't give the player an unnecessary edge.

    As seen by the other response, I posted some more on the advantages.

    But more to your point, you are somewhat right. It is an exhausting experience potentially; and thus not all players would go that extra mile obviously. But then to my own point, that's the whole point. those that DO go the extra mile are rewarded more then those that just want to get in, see if they got it, and quit.

    But you do raise another point; that if character advancements for this extra work is not the right way to go, it could be a cosmetic only reward type of thing.

    Also more on balance; as this game seems to be hugely impacted by social groups. Lets say you make a group of 8 people. They all perfect their PVP class and group fighting.

    Now those fight another group of long-time veterans, who just happen to be a group of IRL friends that only have 5 people.

    CLEARLY the 8 will win against the 5. No matter how much game-knowledge those veterans may have, they simply cannot beat these 8 others.

    But lets say that the 5 long-time veterans have some advantages, then it makes it a more even fight; even if its still one-sided for the group of 8 to win.

    Otherwise social norm says: Just get more people. Combat effectiveness doesn't matter. Only numbers matter.

    Edit:
    And to that point- new players wont have their social circles or groupies. So the group of 8 will always be the veterans and will always win anyway; therefore combat advantages for 'rebirth' system is pretty meaningless in open-world pvp.

    Your post was mentioning advantages for the players receiving the buffs, the games community as a whole really wouldn't benefit. And being rewarded for gritting your teeth and playing through repetitive content that eats up time is not good game content, thats the sort of thing companies add to games when they are losing players due to lack of content and they can't think of anything fun to do so they just throw that in until they can think of something.

    And I don't mean to seem like I am trying to argue everything you say but as far as numbers in a fight go, there are wayyy more variables than that. 8 players could massacre a group of 5 veteran players, but it could go the other way around depending on how good or bad each group is at PvP, their groups communication, the gear they wear, one groups classes could completely counter the other, group synchronization where the classes can benefit better or suffer due to some classes not playing off anothers strengths. Trust me, as someone who has played many games where I actively ran in smaller groups to fight greater numbers, your numbers don't count for crap if you cant outplay the other team. And as far as equally matched teams fighting each other, that "slight" stat advantage will be cheating the new players of a possible victory even though they were so closely matched with a veteran group, which isn't ok. The veterans should win with skill, not because they had slightly better stats. And since veterans will have social circles on top of game experience, WHY do they need any more advantage? So I say just stick with cosmetic rewards if any rewards at all.

    Certainly, I can see where you are coming from. But I, as an avid gamer, also believe that hard work should be rewarded. Weather that be through practice to get the skills you need for action-combat, or growing stronger to compete with those that start out the game with massive skills on their alts. I'm sure if any toon had achieved some 'growth' it could also be displayed in the title of their name or something to show that they have a slight advantage and have done it all before. So open world pvp'ers are like 'hey, we cant handle him solo. lets get 16 people and beat him'
    as an example; this would immensely include the social aspects of PVP and open world to some degree.

    to that extent, however; please note that the way this game is designed; if you play one character and then restart, you will likely have a vastly different experience, and mostly unique, compared to the first. For many reasons; including social groups possible, combats, monsters available, and based on locations. etc. etc. So to say that 'starting over is just a grind' is not really accurate in my opinion.

    Leveling up is reward, finding better gear is reward, unlocking news skills is reward. But so long as the rewards arent unattainable to others. Spent a lot of time playing? Awesome, you probably have cosmetics from pre order packs and more knowledge about the game. You still do not need any stat increases just because you have been around longer. Want better stats? Get better gear. the entire argument I am making is stat boosts for more time played are unnecessary and should not be a game mechanic. The only reward you could argue for a "prestige" system would be purely cosmetic crap that doesn't affect gameplay.

    I suppose I do see where you are coming from. But my argument is more of to advocate for replayability and to that matter, encourage people to spend time in the levels 1-49, and not only the max level.

    To me, variety matters. Replayability is a vast majority of variety to a certain extent. Having replayability be part of the 'augmented powerups' system would encourage people to not just make a toon, rush to cap, and THEN do raids. Then when that gets boring, you are just stuck waiting for a new update in most games. It is yet to be seen how that plays out with AoC; but if the game is 90% centered around end-game and raids; this will ultimately become boring for a lot of players. Mostly those that seek 'challenges' and 'adventure' and 'putting in the work for the reward'.

    That is not to say that a cosmetic-only reward could not be used instead. I'm just advocating for actual power growth because that makes it seemingly a goal for everyone, not just those that want all the collectables.

    I'm also advocating for achievable balanced upgrades. Not saying that suddenly if all the older players do this, they become unstoppable. But surely you would require to do this if you plan to min-max.
    But again, even then, the bonuses should not be staggeringly large.

    It could even be as simple as, there is a unique augment slot. This slot is tied to a 'rebirth' system. When you 'rebirth' as one class, you unlock the use of the augment. But you must start at a lower level as compensation to unlock it.
    With that, suddenly now EVERYONE can achieve it in miniscule time. there is no more pvp advantages. Would that make it more appropriate for you?

    I mean if replayability is your main concern I really wouldn't worry too much my dude. The way the systems are being implemented some servers may not ever even get through all of the available raids or dungeons based off of server choices via upgrading certain nodes and whether or not certain questlines are successful. On top of that, if players do ever want to play some content that isnt available they then do more content through sieges which could or could not be successful the first time, and then having to upgrade other nodes to unlock new content once they do succeed in the siege. This also resets things for citizens of said node, causing them to have to rebuild. Another good thing for replayability is that since every server will be different, that means that youtube guides will be server specific, and the meta rush for information to complete content will not circulate as quickly as other MMO's, keeping content fresher because less people are figuring out certain raids and their mechanics. The entire games replayability is actually pretty astonishing in its current design when you look closely at it.

    You are certainly correct that they have a lot of plans for replayability. But I'm concerned about replayability for multiple places of interest. I playa DDO (another game) that has included a very effective rebirth system. Now I agree that there is a lot of advantages to the power-creep in that, but I think it has made the game 10X more exciting for me, then just getting to end-game and repeating the same 30 raids over and over. Theres a limit to how fun that will be; and people just waiting for the next update for some new gear or new dungeons.

    That game has successfully IMO implemented the reincarnation to benefit the game as a whole. New players or 'alts' always start out weaker in comparison than the veterans, but there is always a build that will completely stomp even the highest of the veterans, regardless of player equipment advantages.
    Ashes of Creation will be a living, breathing, reactive world. Your actions will shape the Zones of Influence, leveling Nodes to form massive Cities, and create the story of the world that everyone experiences.[4] – Margaret Krohn

    To add to Margaret's words here, as the story progresses, you will most likely miss a lot of it if you spend your entire character time as the 'max level'. Even when you have friends that start or something, having to start a new character anyway most likely, you will probably find each time going 1-50 is quite different. Maybe people WANT to stay at cap forever, but not everyone does. This just would add some variety and increase game population levels from 1-49, so that not everyone is lvl 50 and anyone not lvl 50 just WANTS to be 50. You cannot start a new character EVERY time, because at some point you'll be deleting old characters to try something new? Why not encourage a way to do so without the deletion? Maybe incentivized? That's mostly what I'm advocating for. There are different ways to do it, and even as said before from others even, it could be very restricted in gain; or limited to cosmetics only.

    But Steve has said before about encouraging different content as the game is played. But once you hit cap, that different content is likely very restricted to some degree. But there would be disadvantages / tradeoffs for 'reincarnating'. And that tradeoff is that you are temporarily level-locked out of doing a lot of things because you are a lower level again. Meaning that you have to experience leveling again. The same as if you had created a NEW alt.

    To throw in a quote from Steve:
    There will be some in-depth raiding that has multiple stages that will be extremely difficult and... It would definitely be in the single digits of population that will be capable of defeating certain content... It doesn't mean that there won't be content available for the larger percentages as well... There should be a tiered level of content that players can constantly strive to accomplish. If there is no ladder of progression and everything is flat and all content can be experienced, then there is no drive to excel.[9] – Steven Sharif

    Focusing in here on the last little bit there... If there is no ladder of progression, everything is flat.
    I agree completely here, because I've experienced it, and find 'flat' to be boring for me as a player.

    Now, they have already methods to discourage that 'flat' by providing more and more difficult raid bosses / mechanics / fights / etc. etc...

    As my idea with the reincarnation type of system; you provide another means to get that 'curve' progression. There is a drive, and a reward to have experienced it.

    And this could very easily tie in to Steve's stream ideas about having kids 😂. or to some degree, they could be clones for future lives.
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