If you're aiming for a massive game, the masses don't like open pvp
Ciube
Member
I do not understand how it is possible not to understand that today 2020 a game with classes and tab targeting cannot host, due to various balance problems, pvp except in a completely amateur and instantiated form, or managed separately with servers dedicated to pvp and dedicated pve servers, where in one cities will be destroyed by players via the pvp system and by npc and events in pve servers.
I don't understand where the problem lies in pleasing as many players as possible.
Amazon's New World understood that pvp was a problem for many, and ran for cover, what makes you think your game is different? Thanks for the replies and any discussion.
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There are many systems to curate pvp in ashes and i don't think it is fair by you or anyone to comment on them without learning about them first. Which I can say you have no idea what pvp systems are in ashes - just from your post
― Plato
You can't please everyone, but I believe Ashes will please the market of people that want this type of MMO from what they have shown as and how they speak during updates.
Where you may see other players destroying your city and being upset by it, I see a chance for a community to come together to build the city in the first place, and then having a chance to defend what they have built.
If you lose then you rebuild, either continuing with the community or building a new one which sounds like it will keep the game fresh and interesting.
Certainly beats sitting in a PVE area/City that's immune to attacks and sitting semi-afk whilst waiting for a BG or instanced pvp event to pop up anyway, from my point of view.
Wrong, if I say that pvp does not make sense in a classroom game with unique equipment it is because I know very well what I am talking about, I never talk about things I do not know as many ignorant do on the contrary. Then unlike you pvp lovers, I do not exclude but on the contrary I am talking about inclusion.
The fact that you are here means that you aint happy with what's out there.
Ashes is intended for people to fight all over the world. Fighting over open world dungeons. Over world bosses. Over resources. Perhaps you see someone gather a rare resources before you could get to it and want to take it. You can kill them for the chance that they drop that resource. There are many other reasons to fight and kill around your level. The vision of Ashes is one that you have not adjusted to yet.
Pleasing as many people as possible is an option. It does have a cost in what can be done. For instance, players that do not want open world PvP are at odds with those who do and only one can actually be appeased. The other will just leave if it is a deal breaker for them.
This game is not being made for everyone. Ashes understands its target consumer; and, based off of your current statements you are not it. At least not at this point.
I think that if wow after 15 years is still among the numbers 1 it is because no one else has managed to do better, the problem of wow is now at the graphic level and the optimization of the rng which in 2020 is overcome by a token system at the FF14 for the purchase of items.
Here, I expected cooperation between players to give birth to cities to spawn npc that gave quests and to discover dungeons and special boss fights in dynamic open world with public events that risked destroying the villages or cities created by the players, all surrounded by PVP in dedicated areas such as Teso or GW2. But this is only my idea.
Aha, there's the problem. Have a read of the wiki and watch some of the videos, and you'll get a better understanding of what to expect.
Stevens ideas are not similar to WoW and are based off of a more PvP everywhere, risk vs. reward, earn your stuff, you can't have everything, you will not be pandered to, etc.
It's the opposite of WoW in many ways. If your interested in Ashes, you should take the time to learn about where it is going rather than trying to destroy its foundation.
Your on the wrong track. While cooperation will be required to build the world in Ashes , PvE is used to build the world and PvP is used to tear it down. Additionally, when rebuilt through PvE, it will not be the same that it was before the destruction. The goals here are not similar to the other games you are citing.
Very likely they are not the target, I'm just sorry that being the only mmo with western Tab targeting after decades they manage to do just that, maybe I was expecting too much is true.
I'll try it anyway, maybe they will change my mind about the pvp mechanics because they will be implemented very well.
I just wanted to chime in to say, AoC is aiming for PvX (some would call PvPvE) where PvP and PvE are interdependent on each other.
I think this is because the problem with PvP is that people want something to fight over, and PvE provides lots of things to fight over.
On the other hand PvE wants infinite and dynamic content, which is what you find in PvP.
This is why they marry well, and why AoC would like to make PvE and PvP interdependent.
Hopefully we reach a day where there is no polarization between PvP and PvE because they work together to make a great game experience.
What makes you say that? MMORPGs with some form of open-world PvP were and are successful - like Tera, ArcheAge or Black Desert just to name a few examples from 2010s. The key is to provide certain barriers designed to stop people from constantly PKing and Ashes of Creation has them in the form of no-PVP starting areas or the Corruption system.
Btw. have you actually seen any impressions of the most recent New World beta? Many people were genuinely pissed off that PvP isn't being incentivised enough and that people can play this "PvP-oriented MMO" without ever having to toggle PvP.
Someone's right in the other open pvp thread - nothing dies on forums.
While open pvp vs separate dedicated pve/pvp servers is a totally valid (& endless) subject on any general mmorpg forums, I sincerely doubt whether it'll get anywhere close to being constructive here on the Ashes forums.
I think it's safe to say that a majority of this community are here because we're all long time gamers, have been through a plethora of various mmorpgs, and at various points have decided that we want something great BUT different from the existing successful, pleasing-as-many-ppl-as-possible themepark games such as WoW and GW2. We went on our game hunts, found Ashes, bought into Intrepid's vision of PvX open world gameplay, and decided to sign up and wait.
In short, I believe the majority of people you'll see on this forum have already made up their minds - that they want a PvX (which includes open pvp with penalty) game, and they came here for a PvX game. Any attempts at persuading Intrepid to change this direction probably won't end very constructively.
This might be a not-so-appropriate analogy but, imagine entering a mosque and trying to preach Christianity to the Muslims gathering inside (or vice versa)
Use "This game might just not be for you"
OP uses Deflection.
The enemy team is protected from logic for 3 turns.
This here is where the issue is - Intrepid are not attempting to please as many players as possible.
They are aware that the inclusion of open PvP in Ashes will mean that about half of the general MMO playerbase will not give Ashes a second look - and they are fine with that. They are making the game they want to make, and PvP is a core aspect to that.
There will be systems in place to drastically lower the frequency of unprovoked attacks, but any player that absolutely refuses to be attacked by another player really is better off in another game.
Yes, that means that this may not be the game for you. Then again, you may find that you enjoy that aspect of it - should you try it.
Next time say outright ''I don't like PvP so Ashes shouldn't have it''
Oh well? The masses can stick to their game without it.
You will be PvPing often in Ashes.
IDK, I play RoR nightly that REGULARLY has 200 people a side zerging against each other and we all like it and it seems to work pretty damn well. /shrugs
I also don't see a connection between open world PvP and balancing PvP. If you don't have confidence the Devs can balance things, all a small scale, instanced conflict will do it exacerbate things.
And using New World as an example of "things done right" is probably the worst choice since that game is a hot mess and will most likely crash and burn 6 months after release due to bored people.
Have fun playing New world for a few months before you go back to the other PvE behemoth MMORPGs. Bye!
Having spoken to tens of thousands of people interested in Ashes of Creation over the last four years, I can tell you the number of people who dislike any and all PvP is such a minority that there is very little worry the game will fail without pandering to them.
For those carebears who hate any and all open world PvP, they have Pantheon to play.
Amazon NW is likely dead on arrival because of this game design change.
Could always start your own studio and show us how it's done.
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
I think in your excitement to start your necromancer you may be resurrecting dead threads.
We won't know player density and how it will feel, you won't know how often to run into other players, you won't know how rewarding PvE and non-PvP encounters will be for your character progression. I honestly think everyone is just blowing it out of proportion. Wait and see how it feels in testing before freaking out.
Also if you truly believe that the masses are not into open world PvP, then the servers will reflect that. A minority can't ruin your PvE experience overall... if you and most of the server just walk past each other and shake hands, then that's the server you'll have. Personally I think outside of highly contested resources/dungeons this will likely be the case and each server will have PvP hot zones but otherwise the game will play mostly PvE.
In a lot of games PvP experiences stick out in our mind because they are unplanned and ruin the flow of events you had envisioned when you set out. When I played WoW (vanilla+ TBC) in a PvP server I honestly spent like 1% of my time in unplanned world PvP, but oh man do I remember those because they were frustrating or fun or w.e but honestly, I sunk a lot of hours there without anything being ruined for me via world PvP and even those few times I got chain ganked, yeah in the grand scheme of things w.e.
PvP players won't be satisfied just ganking carebears like you, especially with corruption etc, they will coalesce around scarce resources and create PvP hot zones which will differ per server. Want to play a carebear? I think Ashes will supply you with much more opportunity to do so than you assume, stay away from certain parts of the world and you can get by with very little open world PvP I suspect. Again though, this is all speculation and if you play at game launch and aim to engage with the high end part of the game or chase scarce resources you will face more and more world PvP. If that bothers you still, well I would say at least give it a shot before saying it's not your cup of tea... the game will be so different from what we have had in a long time, presumptuous of you to think you already know exactly how you'll feel about it.