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Rating player shops and services in game.

BlairBlair Member
edited October 2020 in General Discussion
Many of you know that players will be able to buy and/or rent stalls to sell goods and services. However I would like to know what are your thoughts on being able to leave a rating or some sort of quick review of a players stall. I.e where they high quality goods, did they treat you well, and did they at any point strip down naked while emoting on your corpse after killing you to take back the stuff you got. If you like this discussion don't forget to like. :smile:

Comments

  • How could you prevent people from trolling the ratings/reviews?

    That's a potential problem I can think of.
  • SathragoSathrago Member
    edited October 2020
    hm, yeah like @Bricktop said you could have a ton of trolls making life difficult for the censoring algorithm and harassment in general. But lets say it was introduced, what ideas could make it work?

    First off I believe a limit of one review per player should be a given. Having a word limit similar to like twitter could be good too... I am conflicted on how to keep players from false reviews though. It wouldn't make sense to give the shops power to delete any post they want but I feel like they should be able to delete posts that alert the profanity filter? This wouldn't stop false flags or well worded hate messages but at least it would make the trolls have to be more creative while also reducing the amount of work the moderators would have to do in such a situation.

    If you have any better ideas im all ears but the current suggestion seems to have a few too many holes to be worth implementing.
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    Commissioned at https://fiverr.com/ravenjuu
  • KuldjuxKuldjux Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    The best crafters and merchants will get known by 'word of mouth'. I don't see the need for anything more than that.
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  • Blair wrote: »
    and did they at any point strip down naked while emoting on your corpse after killing you to take back the stuff you got. :smile:

    What did I sell to you...?
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • KuldjuxKuldjux Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    To follow up on my previous post, and thinking about it a bit, I really don't like this idea at all. No disrespect to @Blair, but to me it seems leaving reviews and ratings is a very modern concept. Did we do that before we had the internet?
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  • VoidwalkersVoidwalkers Member
    edited October 2020
    Reputation of local crafters & traders ... sounds like information that one should be able to find out at a local tavern (in a typical RPG world)

    But a rating & comments/review system seems to be out-of-place imo ...
    1. a player-shop in a fantasy RPG world shouldn't be an eCommerce (well although technically it is, coz we're running it in a virtual world)
    2. as Bricktop said, they need to prevent trolling somehow.
  • I can't speak for everyone, but I'll definitely be putting my shop on yelp
  • Kuldjux wrote: »
    To follow up on my previous post, and thinking about it a bit, I really don't like this idea at all. No disrespect to @Blair, but to me it seems leaving reviews and ratings is a very modern concept. Did we do that before we had the internet?

    We did, but it was mostly done in places like the newspaper by local guides and columnists. Or in guest books or town newsletters. In my opinion that style could work, where players have the means to promote and spruke in RP fashion. Let them put up signs and posters and collaborate with real people writing about their servers.

    Giving people the ability to rate shops and stalls like they are an app gives more potential problems than it gives solutions, or anything useful. It's also super immersion breaking and hamstrings the potential for con artists and such.
  • Can always do that on the forum here, anyway. There's nothing stopping you having a thread to promote your shop in your city. And if you did/didn't like a shop, you can leave your review on their thread.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Can always do that on the forum here, anyway. There's nothing stopping you having a thread to promote your shop in your city. And if you did/didn't like a shop, you can leave your review on their thread.

    Yes!
    I wouldn't be surprised if the forums had a dedicated section for Buying/Selling
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Didn't Albion online do something like this?
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    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • Maybe an automated rating, based on the amount of items sold (total in the shop or for each item)? Add the percentage bought by guild members so it's not too easy to exploit.
    Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
  • Percimes wrote: »
    Maybe an automated rating, based on the amount of items sold (total in the shop or for each item)? Add the percentage bought by guild members so it's not too easy to exploit.

    Oh that could be an idea. If they could make a list of items and how frequently they sell in the shop that could help with quickly finding a shop with the items you might need.
    As an example:

    Shop A, B, and C all sell swords within a city.
    Shop A sold 10 rare sword 30 uncommon swords and 40 common swords last month.
    Shop B sold no rare swords, 50 uncommon swords, and 100 common swords last month.
    Shop C only sold 30 rare swords last month.

    So of the three shops you would see a ranking for the item, Shop A has a more general array of goods, Shop B has a bulk of lower tier swords and Shop C focuses on quality.

    The second part of this would be listing an average cost that each item sells for in each shop. So maybe Shop A rare swords sell at a higher price than the ones at Shop C, while the common swords at shop B would sell cheaper than the swords in Shop A. Now the advantage that Shop A has over the other two is that it is placed closer to the market place center or a bank. So perhaps it costs more to shop there but it is more convenient.

    This could create a system that fleshes itself out naturally, giving shop owners a competitive system that can easily be checked on to track other's prices, as well as making it easier for a player to decide where to go and shop when they need a specific item.
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    Commissioned at https://fiverr.com/ravenjuu
  • I would love Yelp review boards at local taverns. I can check out reviews of local businesses, pick out brochures and pick out my lovely weekend at the node hahaha.

    But in all seriousness, I don't think there are enough degrees of freedom for the quality or experience of the stall to be that variable outside of the actual items being sold. Also, if prices do dramatically differ, I think word of mouth is actually amazing for this. Don't want to get ripped off? It may be worth going to a local tavern and actually talking to real freaking players to get a lay of the land.
  • Personally I just don't like the automation of it at all. If I make a shop and am only able to make 3 swords a week because I'm lazy, but am an amazing, charismatic salesman, this automated system completely destroys my ability to bring in customers. What you guys are describing is about as exciting as an auction house. How much cooler would it be if someone found their way to your shop from word of mouth or creative posters you put up, rather than opening a spreadsheet on a tavern wall and sorting top to bottom.
  • RyufuRyufu Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    What do you call the Yelp of Verra?
  • Ryufu wrote: »
    What do you call the Yelp of Verra?

    Town crier but with like magic somehow.

    5000x1000px_Sathrago_Commission_RavenJuu.jpg
    Commissioned at https://fiverr.com/ravenjuu
  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Sathrago wrote: »
    Ryufu wrote: »
    What do you call the Yelp of Verra?

    Town crier but with like magic somehow.

    Town Scryer?
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • Themata wrote: »
    Personally I just don't like the automation of it at all. If I make a shop and am only able to make 3 swords a week because I'm lazy, but am an amazing, charismatic salesman, this automated system completely destroys my ability to bring in customers. What you guys are describing is about as exciting as an auction house. How much cooler would it be if someone found their way to your shop from word of mouth or creative posters you put up, rather than opening a spreadsheet on a tavern wall and sorting top to bottom.

    I think having the ability to put up posters would work, and maybe even signs in houses for if your running for mayor!
  • Not a fan of a Yelp-like system for vendors. There is just too much potential for it to be abused. I'd much rather see more automated, objective measures - if any at all.

    What measures would change your decisions to use one vendor over another?
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  • daveywavey wrote: »
    Can always do that on the forum here, anyway. There's nothing stopping you having a thread to promote your shop in your city. And if you did/didn't like a shop, you can leave your review on their thread.

    I remember back in FF14 I advertised my crafting service in my player blog (Square Enix had this nice feature that every player can write their own blog on FF14's official community site (Lodestone?)), and it worked out pretty well for me.

    (Off-topic) Actually an official community blog might be a useful feature - a place for ppl to share their play experience, advertise their services or player-held events etc.

    But that still doesn't solve the trolling-reviews issue
  • But that still doesn't solve the trolling-reviews issue

    There's not really any way around trolling, even on RL review sites. I once saw an Amazon review that said "Great product, fast delivery. Will use again." And they gave it 1/5 stars. You've just got to hope that the positive reviews outweigh the negative and/or trolling reviews, sort of like a wiki. Any ol' idiot can post on there, but it gets more and more accurate the more people add to it.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    daveywavey wrote: »
    But that still doesn't solve the trolling-reviews issue

    There's not really any way around trolling, even on RL review sites. I once saw an Amazon review that said "Great product, fast delivery. Will use again." And they gave it 1/5 stars. You've just got to hope that the positive reviews outweigh the negative and/or trolling reviews, sort of like a wiki. Any ol' idiot can post on there, but it gets more and more accurate the more people add to it.

    I think this problem could be exacerbated in an MMORPG though, because the biggest guilds could designate "our shop" and get all their members to rate it. You already see the guild identity of shops in other games with stalls so this would be a logical thing to do.

    On the otherhand, maybe that's just part of the advantage of running a merchant guild.
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited October 2020
    maouw wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    But that still doesn't solve the trolling-reviews issue

    There's not really any way around trolling, even on RL review sites. I once saw an Amazon review that said "Great product, fast delivery. Will use again." And they gave it 1/5 stars. You've just got to hope that the positive reviews outweigh the negative and/or trolling reviews, sort of like a wiki. Any ol' idiot can post on there, but it gets more and more accurate the more people add to it.

    I think this problem could be exacerbated in an MMORPG though, because the biggest guilds could designate "our shop" and get all their members to rate it. You already see the guild identity of shops in other games with stalls so this would be a logical thing to do.

    On the otherhand, maybe that's just part of the advantage of running a merchant guild.

    This is also enhanced by the fact that there are likely to only be a few hundred potential customers for your stall, unless you are in a metropolis - at which point it grows to a few thousand.

    A guild of 300 people absolutely could sink any player stall they want with a system like this.

    Also, I don't really see the point - for three main reasons.

    The first is that players can look at items before they buy them. There is no real way players can be rated on the quality of their product, when players are able to see the exact quality of that product. Since services are limited to repairs and enchanting (as far as we know), I don't see a need for reputation here, either.

    Second, stalls are temporary - you only rent them for a period of time. This means the stall itself can't really have a rating - though the character could.

    Third, players often have merchant alts - for various reasons. If a players alt has a bad rating, they would just make another alt. A rating being account wide seems somewhat unlikely, due to the desire of the developers to have a degree of spy and intreuge in the game - which dictates that characters on a given account not effect each other (it would be possible to spot a spy in your guild if ratings go to the account rather than to the character).
  • mmmm, i dont like that idea at all.
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