AtamaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Adding classes or professions or whatever is a natural form of growth for an MMORPG. Just remember that “class” is purely a marketing term so that Intrepid can say, “PICK FROM 64 CLASSES!!!!111” They aren’t actually classes; the 8 classes in the game are what Intrepid calls archetypes. This is really just adding a 9th class to a game that has 8. Don’t be fooled by Intrepid’s brand of Newspeak. The “classes” are just specializations of classes.
Adding classes or professions or whatever is a natural form of growth for an MMORPG. Just remember that “class” is purely a marketing term so that Intrepid can say, “PICK FROM 64 CLASSES!!!!111” They aren’t actually classes; the 8 classes in the game are what Intrepid calls archetypes. This is really just adding a 9th class to a game that has 8. Don’t be fooled by Intrepid’s brand of Newspeak. The “classes” are just specializations of classes.
I think this this depends on how big of a difference the augment makes to the way each class plays.
E.g. if an augment makes a mage tanky and turns all their spells into melee range attacks, that's a very different mage to the classic elemental mage.
yeah, because another main type class, and 16 more classes is really what we need
Strange thing to say. We don't really know much about the game still so it's hard to say what we need. Maybe you mean we need another forum post about how open world PvP isn't fun or that open world dungeons and raid can't be challenging? Or just complaining about how the game is taking too long?
Adding classes or professions or whatever is a natural form of growth for an MMORPG. Just remember that “class” is purely a marketing term so that Intrepid can say, “PICK FROM 64 CLASSES!!!!111” They aren’t actually classes; the 8 classes in the game are what Intrepid calls archetypes. This is really just adding a 9th class to a game that has 8. Don’t be fooled by Intrepid’s brand of Newspeak. The “classes” are just specializations of classes.
I think this this depends on how big of a difference the augment makes to the way each class plays.
E.g. if an augment makes a mage tanky and turns all their spells into melee range attacks, that's a very different mage to the classic elemental mage.
Yeah this is a discussion on its own of how unique each "class" really will be. Personally I am completely in agreement with Atama in my prediction but we will see.
The best thing at this system is, that every new Archetype brings something for every "old" archetype and that the numbers of new classes are jumping farther and farther. 64 -> 81 -> 100 -> 121 -> 144
For the programmers this must be crazy, but for the player its heaven :-)
But to be real, if they make everything we can think of already through augments, then we can forget this whole idea of more archetypes.
I think it would later be easier to make something that no one is talking about: More Augments!
If the comunity is demanding a druid, then simply put some nature augments in the game and tadaaa....
I mean, it would be viable adding a new archetype if it is only the main one to form a class and the secondary the basic ones we have. This way it would increase linearly (8+1(if we allow new/new, for example: archdruids))
Otherwise, adding new archetypes as secondary roles to all previous classes would be exponentialy not viable.
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AtamaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Adding classes or professions or whatever is a natural form of growth for an MMORPG. Just remember that “class” is purely a marketing term so that Intrepid can say, “PICK FROM 64 CLASSES!!!!111” They aren’t actually classes; the 8 classes in the game are what Intrepid calls archetypes. This is really just adding a 9th class to a game that has 8. Don’t be fooled by Intrepid’s brand of Newspeak. The “classes” are just specializations of classes.
I think this this depends on how big of a difference the augment makes to the way each class plays.
E.g. if an augment makes a mage tanky and turns all their spells into melee range attacks, that's a very different mage to the classic elemental mage.
None of the examples that have been given about augments so far suggest it’s anywhere near that. We’ve been given examples like a fighter’s charge attack teleporting to an enemy rather than running, or a mage’s fireball spell summoning a small fire elemental instead of a direct attack. Basically, small tweaks that give flavor to a character, not something that dramatically changes the way the class works.
I’d expect that mage to gain some minor shielding abilities to increase survival rather than suddenly transforming into a tank. Otherwise Intrepid has been really holding out on us or took the game in a new direction in the course of development. (Not impossible but once we start speculating that the game is going to turn out differently than we’ve been told, we can’t really trust anything anymore.)
So far all of the info suggests that a “class” in Ashes is more like a talent tree or specialization for a class in a typical MMORPG. Which still opens up a lot of variety; imagine that WoW had 8 different talent trees per class instead of 3. That’d be huge! It should still be a strength for this game if done correctly. But it isn’t like having 64 actual classes in a game like WoW.
(And add onto that the further changes to a character due to race and weapon choice... You really can find variety.)
If we had something like 8 talent trees per archetype, this would be wonderfull, because then we would realy have 64 different classes, but as you said before, it looks like that it will be far less than that. The fireball will still be a fireball at different augments i think with the little difference that one augment makes it burn hotter, the second augment makes it spread fire on nearby enemies, the third augment slows the enemy a little...... and so on, but its still a normal fireball.
I cant know that for sure, but thats what it looks like from what we heard from Steven about the augments of the warrior.
I realy hope that i am wrong about this.
From what I can tell, pulling from the wiki, most of it is pretty simple, with some exceptions. On the topic of fireballs, a Mage/Summoner, when they use an augmented fireball, it instead turns into a fire elemental for a period of time. For most things though, it looks like it simply takes key components of the secondary class, and mixes it with the primary class skills when augmented. So, they are essentially re-writing bits of code for damage, damage type, effect and duration, etc. On top of this, visuals would change. If those visuals are pre-existing assets or modified assets, I don't think it would be an insane project. Though if they are creating something from the ground up, it could definitely add a little bit more work.
Adding classes or professions or whatever is a natural form of growth for an MMORPG. Just remember that “class” is purely a marketing term so that Intrepid can say, “PICK FROM 64 CLASSES!!!!111” They aren’t actually classes; the 8 classes in the game are what Intrepid calls archetypes. This is really just adding a 9th class to a game that has 8. Don’t be fooled by Intrepid’s brand of Newspeak. The “classes” are just specializations of classes.
I think this this depends on how big of a difference the augment makes to the way each class plays.
E.g. if an augment makes a mage tanky and turns all their spells into melee range attacks, that's a very different mage to the classic elemental mage.
None of the examples that have been given about augments so far suggest it’s anywhere near that. We’ve been given examples like a fighter’s charge attack teleporting to an enemy rather than running, or a mage’s fireball spell summoning a small fire elemental instead of a direct attack. Basically, small tweaks that give flavor to a character, not something that dramatically changes the way the class works.
I’d expect that mage to gain some minor shielding abilities to increase survival rather than suddenly transforming into a tank. Otherwise Intrepid has been really holding out on us or took the game in a new direction in the course of development. (Not impossible but once we start speculating that the game is going to turn out differently than we’ve been told, we can’t really trust anything anymore.)
So far all of the info suggests that a “class” in Ashes is more like a talent tree or specialization for a class in a typical MMORPG. Which still opens up a lot of variety; imagine that WoW had 8 different talent trees per class instead of 3. That’d be huge! It should still be a strength for this game if done correctly. But it isn’t like having 64 actual classes in a game like WoW.
(And add onto that the further changes to a character due to race and weapon choice... You really can find variety.)
Yeah gotcha.
If it is like that, we really won't be calling the classes by their class names (except maybe the 1 or 2 classes that really stand out from their peers) and will probs just be like: "LOOKING FOR TANK. ANY TANK."
@Osire
If you weren't aware, speculation is very commonplace when discussing games old and new when it comes to content creation. Discussing something like this doesn't mean we are deciding it will happen. At the end of the day, it is up to Intrepid. If they read this thread, they could say; "That's a great idea." just as well as they could say; "That would take way more resources than we can currently allocate, no matter how great it could be." or; "We're not really looking to add new classes."...Our conversation is simply the dreams of a few random people on the internet who have found common ground and common interest. Personally, I would love to see a Druid archetype get added. But again, I'm not an employee for Intrepid, nor do I have any clue of how they did any of their code handling, foundation work, modeling, etc, etc. I have no clue if it's viable or a painstaking process. So at the end of the day, we're just here to have fun, bud.
@maouw
Well, that livestream cleared it up. It is indeed as @Atama and I (and many others obviously) thought. It's really 8 classes with some flavor on top. I still insist their presentation of the grid is really restrictive for future growth and updates to the game. I'd rather have arbitrary specializations for each class that doesn't involve picking a secondary archetype which feels good and different enough than having 8 secondary specializations that need to match the flavor of the archetypes. It also makes adding classes really hard. Just give us the classic class + specialization tree without having it related to a secondary class selection... in my humble opinion at least.
@maouw
Well, that livestream cleared it up. It is indeed as @Atama and I (and many others obviously) thought. It's really 8 classes with some flavor on top. I still insist their presentation of the grid is really restrictive for future growth and updates to the game. I'd rather have arbitrary specializations for each class that doesn't involve picking a secondary archetype which feels good and different enough than having 8 secondary specializations that need to match the flavor of the archetypes. It also makes adding classes really hard. Just give us the classic class + specialization tree without having it related to a secondary class selection... in my humble opinion at least.
Yea.. I really loved the druid from vanilla wow too, but I was a D&D player long before that. I had a few arguments with my DM's and sadly to my dismay, I digressed to the belief of the Druid class has no real place within a normal party. Alignment of the class is not of one for social organization. The only organization the druid is a part of is the Druidic order and to whichever Biome the druid is home to. The Druid would rather kill you for picking flowers and chopping down the trees not because he wanted them but because they belong right where they were. Also, in D&D shapechange is a 9th level spell obtained at level 17 with only 20 levels in all. Most druids Never lived a day in an animals body.
Just a different view.
I guess I would go as far as maybe introduce an idea of a "Druid class" as a Quasi Faction for a later maybe for an expansion(seems similiar to the corruption system with the quasi-faction). Please let them finish the objectives though, no one wants to see the goal post get moved.
I would LOVE a Druid class. It's currently what I main in WoW and have since Burning Crusade. I was a bit sad once I discovered that this game won't have that class (at least upon release) especially when this game looks so amazing. It probably won't stop me from playing it as my main MMO once Ashes comes out, but a Druid class would certainly cement it
I come from WoW, maining a warrior in vanilla, and really enjoying my feral druid as an alt. Starting TBC and heavy augmentation of feral spec I mained feral druid since then.
I would like to see a Druid archetype linked to nature type of magic school. Nature, forests, rivers, all part of mother earth.
Where as Shamans usually have a deep understanding of mother earth, they do give more emphasis on spiritual aspects of it and their linkage to their ancestors and look up to ancestors spirits for guidance.
Druids on the other hands are more to my liking, as they rely on current moment, considering the nature as their living breathing deity. They attempt to live in harmony with the nature and are able to harness the nature's greatest gifts: life giving, attunement with nature and the animal kingdom, commanding and manipulating the nature, deep understanding of sun and moon cycles.
Shapeshifting is my biggest interest in the Druid. Shapeshifting into an animal to take their strengths is very compelling. Like the monks who learn different fighting styles under animal types, but with actual shapeshifting into said animal. My imaginings are limited, feline for combat, bear for tanking, treant for healing, astral form for spellcaster, dryad for physical ranged.
Druid/Summoner has the potential to provide summoned minions in form of vegetation.
Druid/Bard could potentially alter the surroundings around them, in form of ground effects perhaps. AoE buffs for party members and AoE debuffs for enemies.
In my opinion druids should have mobility benefits as well, like faster swimming in water and running on land (be it in shapeshifting forms or not), and do I dare mention shapeshifting into a winged creature for flight?
Comments
But that's the whole point of RPGs, its to become who you want to be so yeah more options are better
Sweet man glad you support the idea.
I think this this depends on how big of a difference the augment makes to the way each class plays.
E.g. if an augment makes a mage tanky and turns all their spells into melee range attacks, that's a very different mage to the classic elemental mage.
Yeah I kind of meant primate, I was picturing a gorilla when I was writing that
Strange thing to say. We don't really know much about the game still so it's hard to say what we need. Maybe you mean we need another forum post about how open world PvP isn't fun or that open world dungeons and raid can't be challenging? Or just complaining about how the game is taking too long?
Yeah this is a discussion on its own of how unique each "class" really will be. Personally I am completely in agreement with Atama in my prediction but we will see.
For the programmers this must be crazy, but for the player its heaven :-)
But to be real, if they make everything we can think of already through augments, then we can forget this whole idea of more archetypes.
I think it would later be easier to make something that no one is talking about: More Augments!
If the comunity is demanding a druid, then simply put some nature augments in the game and tadaaa....
Otherwise, adding new archetypes as secondary roles to all previous classes would be exponentialy not viable.
I’d expect that mage to gain some minor shielding abilities to increase survival rather than suddenly transforming into a tank. Otherwise Intrepid has been really holding out on us or took the game in a new direction in the course of development. (Not impossible but once we start speculating that the game is going to turn out differently than we’ve been told, we can’t really trust anything anymore.)
So far all of the info suggests that a “class” in Ashes is more like a talent tree or specialization for a class in a typical MMORPG. Which still opens up a lot of variety; imagine that WoW had 8 different talent trees per class instead of 3. That’d be huge! It should still be a strength for this game if done correctly. But it isn’t like having 64 actual classes in a game like WoW.
(And add onto that the further changes to a character due to race and weapon choice... You really can find variety.)
I cant know that for sure, but thats what it looks like from what we heard from Steven about the augments of the warrior.
I realy hope that i am wrong about this.
Yeah gotcha.
If it is like that, we really won't be calling the classes by their class names (except maybe the 1 or 2 classes that really stand out from their peers) and will probs just be like: "LOOKING FOR TANK. ANY TANK."
Well not now, but there will come a time when people are like, "played everything, need something new". THEN they add a new archetype
Plus there is no harm in speculation and it might even give the Devs something to add to the list if it hasn't been added already.
If you weren't aware, speculation is very commonplace when discussing games old and new when it comes to content creation. Discussing something like this doesn't mean we are deciding it will happen. At the end of the day, it is up to Intrepid. If they read this thread, they could say; "That's a great idea." just as well as they could say; "That would take way more resources than we can currently allocate, no matter how great it could be." or; "We're not really looking to add new classes."...Our conversation is simply the dreams of a few random people on the internet who have found common ground and common interest. Personally, I would love to see a Druid archetype get added. But again, I'm not an employee for Intrepid, nor do I have any clue of how they did any of their code handling, foundation work, modeling, etc, etc. I have no clue if it's viable or a painstaking process. So at the end of the day, we're just here to have fun, bud.
Well, that livestream cleared it up. It is indeed as @Atama and I (and many others obviously) thought. It's really 8 classes with some flavor on top. I still insist their presentation of the grid is really restrictive for future growth and updates to the game. I'd rather have arbitrary specializations for each class that doesn't involve picking a secondary archetype which feels good and different enough than having 8 secondary specializations that need to match the flavor of the archetypes. It also makes adding classes really hard. Just give us the classic class + specialization tree without having it related to a secondary class selection... in my humble opinion at least.
Yeah! I was gonna say hahaha
Just a different view.
I guess I would go as far as maybe introduce an idea of a "Druid class" as a Quasi Faction for a later maybe for an expansion(seems similiar to the corruption system with the quasi-faction). Please let them finish the objectives though, no one wants to see the goal post get moved.
I like the ideas in https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/259669/#Comment_259669 and https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/259680/#Comment_259680
I would like to see a Druid archetype linked to nature type of magic school. Nature, forests, rivers, all part of mother earth.
Where as Shamans usually have a deep understanding of mother earth, they do give more emphasis on spiritual aspects of it and their linkage to their ancestors and look up to ancestors spirits for guidance.
Druids on the other hands are more to my liking, as they rely on current moment, considering the nature as their living breathing deity. They attempt to live in harmony with the nature and are able to harness the nature's greatest gifts: life giving, attunement with nature and the animal kingdom, commanding and manipulating the nature, deep understanding of sun and moon cycles.
Shapeshifting is my biggest interest in the Druid. Shapeshifting into an animal to take their strengths is very compelling. Like the monks who learn different fighting styles under animal types, but with actual shapeshifting into said animal. My imaginings are limited, feline for combat, bear for tanking, treant for healing, astral form for spellcaster, dryad for physical ranged.
Druid/Summoner has the potential to provide summoned minions in form of vegetation.
Druid/Bard could potentially alter the surroundings around them, in form of ground effects perhaps. AoE buffs for party members and AoE debuffs for enemies.
In my opinion druids should have mobility benefits as well, like faster swimming in water and running on land (be it in shapeshifting forms or not), and do I dare mention shapeshifting into a winged creature for flight?