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Are we going to have MORE physics, force, impulse and displacements of actors?

TacualeonTacualeon Member
edited October 2020 in General Discussion
Edited!

Skills that push, pull, repel, attract and displace npc's and players. Other than the chain we have now.

Is a deal breaker for me. I would like more.
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Comments

  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited October 2020
    Yes this we be in the game.
    About 17:00 in Stevens uses a pull ability.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WQ_BBwK5LA
    There is also collision in the game.
    Curious as to why this kind of stuff is a deal breaker for you?
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • SathragoSathrago Member
    edited October 2020
    Tacualeon wrote: »
    Skills that push, pull, repel, attract and displace npc's and players.

    Is a deal breaker for me.

    If I am understanding your sentiment correctly, you do not want any of those mechanics in the game?

    What mmos have you played that don't have them? OSRS?

    Edit: I see I got it wrong. Nevermind then we good.
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  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited October 2020
    Other that pull. Edited first comment.

    Yes this we be in the game.
    About 17:00 in Stevens uses a pull ability.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WQ_BBwK5LA
    There is also collision in the game.
    Curious as to why this kind of stuff is a deal breaker for you?

    Between mmorpgs I played Mobas competively.
    I think mmorpgs are doomed if they don't copy things from Mobas. Personal thought.
  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited October 2020
    Sathrago wrote: »
    Tacualeon wrote: »
    Skills that push, pull, repel, attract and displace npc's and players.

    Is a deal breaker for me.

    If I am understanding your sentiment correctly, you do not want any of those mechanics in the game?

    What mmos have you played that don't have them? OSRS?

    I want a COUPLE more.
    My personal thought is that mmorpgs need to copy things from Mobas to be fresh and reach high popularity.
    Displacemente is a big thing for combat, setups, plays and overall spectacle provided.
  • VmanGmanVmanGman Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    No. A couple of years before release they have gone over every skill and confirmed that the chain pull is the only displacement skill they will ever put in the game. /s

    Sorry that this game is not according to your liking.
  • Can you share the link where they said that?
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Tacualeon wrote: »
    Other that pull. Edited first comment.

    Yes this we be in the game.
    About 17:00 in Stevens uses a pull ability.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WQ_BBwK5LA
    There is also collision in the game.
    Curious as to why this kind of stuff is a deal breaker for you?

    Between mmorpgs I played Mobas competively.
    I think mmorpgs are doomed if they don't copy things from Mobas. Personal thought.

    There was a guy couple months ago that thought they should make it an FPS.

    Hope they stay true to the vision. Nice edit by the way of the first post.

    I agree we need more of this kind of thing. I would like to see all of them push ,pull a random fear here and there.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited October 2020
    Yes. We don't need a thousand displacements, but a few here and there would makes the game more mechanically intensive and visually attractive.

    Mmorpgs need to copy and assimilate new things and concepts from other popular genres to feel fresh again.
    The genre has been stagnant for years.
  • Im not sure about other games but Heroes of the storm has some really interesting mechanics that could be used for summoner classes.

    Rexxar being able to command misha to do a charge that stuns players would be cool as an ability. Imagine if instead of that your pet would latch onto the target and pull them back towards the caster for a few seconds.
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  • The displacemente also makes the combat more visually appealing.
    Sathrago wrote: »
    Im not sure about other games but Heroes of the storm has some really interesting mechanics that could be used for summoner classes.

    Rexxar being able to command misha to do a charge that stuns players would be cool as an ability. Imagine if instead of that your pet would latch onto the target and pull them back towards the caster for a few seconds.

    Yes, that's the way. In my opinion mmorpg need to assimilate new ideas.
  • VmanGmanVmanGman Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Tacualeon wrote: »
    Can you share the link where they said that?

    I’m just trolling you.

    Not only is the game years away from release so they definitely have not gone into the details of every possible skill, but also it’s obvious that if they’re using displacement mechanics for one skill they will also use them for other skills.

    You really think that the only displacement skill in the game will be the chain? Another example they’ve given is the wall that tanks can use which will knock down anyone that is hit by it.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited October 2020
    Tacualeon wrote: »
    Can you share the link where they said that?

    With 30 or so skills per classes, and no less than 25 augments per skill, that gives Ashes 6000 individual augmented skills.

    Assuming that they game has a mechanic to move players around but is then only used once is... odd.

    Make the assumption that all mechanics will be used many times, since there is a need for many skills.

    You don't need developer confirmation for this.
  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited October 2020
    The chain pull is a simple Reverse directional Impulse or Force.

    For being an alpha, I think they are being pretty shy.

    1) Play a Kick Animation.
    2) Add Directional impulse.
    3) Add some red particles and audio. "Hikkuuuuu!"
    Boom, you just invented Dragon Kick.
    You just made combat a bit more flashy, visually attractive and mechanical.
    Everyone start picking that because kickinck someone in the face and send them flying across the field is unique, fresh and awesome.

    1) Play Shield charge animation.
    2) Increase character movement speed over time.
    3) Add directional force.
    4) Play sound effect when hitbox touch another actor hitbox.
    Boom, you just invented Heavy Charge.

    1) Play swing weapon animation.
    2) After 1/3 of the animation, increase animation speed dramatically to sell the momentum.
    3) Play aoe particle effect.
    4) Add radial force
    Boom, you just invented Big Swing
    People get pushed away.

    1) Play Mage casting animation
    2) Spawn Graviton particle
    3) After 2 seconds, spawn actor with inverse radial force.
    4) Particles get bigger.
    5) Enemies get dragged to the middle of the power.
    Boom, you just invented Mage Graviton Field.

    I want them to go a bit crazy. So many possibilities . We could have an attractive and engaging combat.
    If I can make it work, I'm sure they can make it functional and pretty with their superior knowledge.

    My graphic card just imploded, but after getting a new one next month I might do it myself and post some videos here.
  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited October 2020
    I repeat. This is very accesible. Download UE4 and in a week you can make skills that look cool, using cheap assets just with physics and a bit of imagination.
    Without any programming whatsoever.

    Making it look "Release polished" requires more, but for early acces I think is enough.
    I want them to go a bit crazy and make combat a better spectacle.
    Combat, now, in my opinion, looks dull, static and unimpressive.

    Probably missed things that experienced and knowledgable professionals take into consideration before doing this things. But being in early acces seems like a lost opportunity of getting imaginative with the combat and the visual spectacle.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Tacualeon wrote: »
    I repeat. This is very accesible. Download UE4 and in a week you can make skills that look cool, using cheap assets just with physics and a bit of imagination.
    Without any programming whatsoever.
    The thing is, Intrepid are not in the business of making personalised demonstrations of UE4 capabilities.

    They are making a game.

    There is no point them spending time making an ability unless that ability is going to end up in the game. Since the game is too early in development for them to really get in depth with class design, there is no real point in them trying to design the abilities that those classes are made up from.

    It appears that all you are asking for here is a demonstration of something that may or may not end up in the game - which again, is just an odd thing to ask for.

    As I said above, this game is going to have 6000+ abilities by the time all augments are considered. There will be abilities in those that move players and NPC's around.

    Also, this game is not early access - it is pre-alpha. It is actual and literal years away from what most developers would consider early access.
  • Tacualeon wrote: »
    Is a deal breaker for me. I would like more.

    This is seriously a deal breaker for you? Being able to push an NPC decides whether or not you're going to play the game?

    :o:/:|
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • Important for pvp and usefull/interesting for pve aswell.
  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited October 2020
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Tacualeon wrote: »
    Is a deal breaker for me. I would like more.

    This is seriously a deal breaker for you? Being able to push an NPC decides whether or not you're going to play the game?

    :o:/:|

    Yes. Displacements in videogame makes better spectacle and raises the bar in mechanical skills and positioning.
    The next step in evolution is to mmorpg to copy things from e-sport competitive mobas for it's own combat.

    I want to play something fun, not because nostalgia.
    Mobas are 100% combat, and they have dominated the videogame industry for the last decade: spectacle, mechanical skills, positioning among other things.
    Not taking note and going back to classic mmorpg combat I think is a mistake
  • Tacualeon wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Tacualeon wrote: »
    Is a deal breaker for me. I would like more.

    This is seriously a deal breaker for you? Being able to push an NPC decides whether or not you're going to play the game?

    :o:/:|

    Yes. Displacements in videogame makes better spectacle and raises the bar in mechanical skills and positioning.
    The next step in evolution is to mmorpg to copy things from e-sport competitive mobas for it's own combat.

    Heh, fair dos. Well, along with the various 'Pull' skills already on the wiki, you might be interested in Banish and Knockback Shot.

    Banish: Teleport target a distance away from the caster.
    Knockback Shot: Knocks a target back X distance.

    So, they're obviously intending for those sorts of abilities to be in-game, and given that we don't even nearly know all the skills yet, it's safe to assume that there will be more of them.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited October 2020
    Fair.
    Personal opinion: after 2 years of proyect we could have that already. That is very easy to make compared to everything else they have shown us.

    Banish: Teleport target a distance away from the caster.
    Get Actor Location
    Set new Actor Location


    Knockback Shot: Knocks a target back X distance.
    This is Directional Force or Impulse in a straigh line applied when the hitbox of the proyectile hit another hitbox.

    I have been following the proyect for 2-3 years.
    I would love combat mecanics and spectacle to be higher priority.

    There are over 3k functions in UE4. You can do a heck ton with Set Actor Location and Add Force/Impulse if you have imagination (and you are a pro)

    Even if you are new you can do thing like:
    Raising Dragon Kick
    -Get (your) Actor Location
    -Get (enemy) Actor Location
    -Set (your) Actor Location behind the enemy
    -Play (Bruce Lee) Audio
    -Play ascending kick animation
    -Add Force/Impulse on Y axis (ascending)
    -Play In Air animation for the victim

    Infernal chains
    -Play levitating animation
    -Increase Y location over time (as if your character slowly start levitating)
    -Spawn chain particle to close enemies
    -After 2 seconds delay, Add inverse circular force/impulse
    -Enemies get dragged to you
    maxresdefault.jpg

    You can bring thousand of questions about balance and such, but I think this type of skills sounds cool and flashy.
    You feel rewarded when you use them, they are a good spectacle and they reward/punish good and bad positioning.

    2-3 years between alpha and early acces. Combat could be a bit more imaginative, and mmorpg shoudl steal and assimilate concepts from other games and forms of arts.
  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited October 2020
    Imagine the spectacle and the mechanical skills if this was in third person.
    -Get actor location (sentinel)
    -Move to location of the sentinel
    -Cast Dragon Kick animation
    -Flash (set actor location)
    -Animation ends, Apply directional force to enemy (kick)

    Positining. Since the force is directional, the 3d position of your character MATTERS!

    Push your enemy away, push your enemy toward a cliff, push your enemy toward your friends.

    tenor.gif?itemid=14918985
  • Tacualeon wrote: »
    Raising Dragon Kick
    -Get (your) Actor Location
    -Get (enemy) Actor Location
    -Set (your) Actor Location behind the enemy
    -Play (Bruce Lee) Audio
    -Play ascending kick animation
    -Add Force/Impulse on Y axis (ascending)
    -Play In Air animation for the victim

    "Play (Bruce Lee) Audio" - hahahaha, love it. :D
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • Positioning.

    This guy clicked the button for the skill, and during the animation he flashed (teleported)
    Since is mechanic, the FORCE isn't applied until the animation ends.
    Enemy get stuned out of position.
    tumblr_nlj4cytQUZ1sdk5d7o1_500.gif

    Positioning, timing, mechanics, cd management, depth, "WOAAAAAAAAAHOOO" e-sports moments.
    Something to learn and to bring to 3rd person mmorpg.
  • daveywavey wrote: »
    Tacualeon wrote: »
    Raising Dragon Kick
    -Get (your) Actor Location
    -Get (enemy) Actor Location
    -Set (your) Actor Location behind the enemy
    -Play (Bruce Lee) Audio
    -Play ascending kick animation
    -Add Force/Impulse on Y axis (ascending)
    -Play In Air animation for the victim

    "Play (Bruce Lee) Audio" - hahahaha, love it. :D

    6f0f3a3a98d6f7ac16408ca80ea39d1f.gif
  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited October 2020
    Thunder God's trail
    -Play jumping animation
    -Play Immigrant Song in the background
    -Add elevation over time
    -Spawn lightning particles
    -When touch the ground add circular force
    -Spawn lightning particles

    A thousand of questions:
    Can you get interrupted mid-air, how to adjust to different elevations etc etc.

    But a bit of imagination wouldn't hurt alpha and early acces stage :)

    ReadyForthrightAlleycat-size_restricted.gif
  • Fact: Tacualeon is very passionate about MOBAS and Spectacles.

    I get it man, you're excited. That's good. :)
    But cheez-its, it's Alpha 1. Deveolpers have a lot going on/working on.

    Give them some time....


    Steven Sharif is my James Halliday (Anorak)

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    “That is not dead which can eternal lie,
    And with strange aeons even death may die.”

    -HPL
  • Fact: Tacualeon is very passionate about MOBAS and Spectacles.

    I get it man, you're excited. That's good. :)
    But cheez-its, it's Alpha 1. Deveolpers have a lot going on/working on.

    Give them some time....

    After the last thread using this answer, you are a brave person :smiley:

    This IS however the correct answer.

    Nothing wrong with pointing out or asking for things you haven't seen yet but understand we still have TWO years remaining and you do not refine at this stage in the game, that comes later, after everything has been solidly locked in. If we were a year+ further along, then I might start to worry a bit but I think the Devs are doing pretty good considering what they are attempting to create here.
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  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    *dawn of war 3 flashbacks*
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    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • PlagueMonk wrote: »
    After the last thread using this answer, you are a brave person :smiley:

    :D:D:D
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • Fact: Tacualeon is very passionate about MOBAS and Spectacles.

    I get it man, you're excited. That's good. :)
    But cheez-its, it's Alpha 1. Deveolpers have a lot going on/working on.

    Give them some time....

    No Mobas, videogame combat in general is my passion.
    16 years of mmorpgs and 8 of competitive Mobas.

    In my eyes, videogames are interaction first and audiovisual spectacle second.
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