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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Thats an antagonizing post.
You'd better address my other points as to why pvp content doesnt remove the need to PK and that PK isnt only a griefing method for 20 people looking for 1 target, deserving group corruption.
The frequent reference to L2 is perhaps because it is believed to be the source of inspiration for the pvp mechanics to be in game, albeit modified a little to suit a different game. Not much more.
For me, no other game has come close since to offer the same kind of experiences, which is a little sad, but sometimes thankful..
I`m not sure if I will miss getting 0.1% xp per hour, losing 2-3hrs of xp in a single death and dying in pvp 4-5 times in one hour of pvp. But it sure made any wins and losses more memorable late in game.
All games since have been pretty laid back to the commitment L2 required to progress at the time.
As for your above comments:
Report to Intrepid. Don't take the rules in to your own hands.
> much prefer to issue a bit of in game justice first
Report to Intrepid. Don't take the rules in to your own hands.
> much prefer to issue a bit of in game justice first
Solo PvP. It won't take long for one player to get rid of one kills worth of corruption.
> Perhaps true, if you only kill one player and your not already on a tally of kills.. All depends on how red you go. In L2, I recall gaining karma after multiple kills and it taking several adrenaline rushing hrs to reduce, with the need to further go red just to avoid dying.. great sport
Raids will not be subject to corruption based on what I am talking about.
> no idea of the proposed system, but loved the L2 conflict when a boss was about to be taken down and another clan came in an wiped the floor to take the kill.. nothing like a bit of adrenalin ..
Learn how to not get trained on.
> mechanics in game may prevent it maybe not.. prefer not as makes for greater reward for finding and retaining an xp spot. It kind of adds to the risk / reward factor
These players are flagged for combat, by necessity. You won't gain corruption for killing them.
> but if you want to add weight to the kill you wait until they are unflagged
Guild war. Guilds don't have the choice of opting out of these.
> not sure of your experience, wars in L2 occurred one way or two way or just for the hell of it, using declaration or not. Some wars lasted minutes, some months
You don't claim areas.
> perhaps in your experience, not mine.. I or clan want an area we pvp for it / claim it / defend it..
Guild war.
> sure
Grow up. ( I assume you meant trash talking)
> nothing more satisfying to just drop someone instead of engaging in trash talk
These players are flagged for combat, by necessity. You won't gain corruption for killing them.
> not sure point here, but ok
Guild war. Guilds don't have the choice of opting out of these.
> again not sure of AoC approach, but my experience with clan wars were there were wars without declaration, just go red (by more stronger clans/ pvp`ers), one way wars, and two way wars.. and opportunists and unwitting members involved in wars. Not always simple
@Noaani, to give context to your view point, what mmorpg have you played that had pvp?
Why do these need to be addressed?
None of the three suggestion being made (corruption being shared within a group, corruption being cshared by all those that have reciently attacked a killed non-combatant or corruption preventing players from being in a group) doesn't prevent players from killing others when ever they want. All it does is shift the paradigm just a little bit.
If you are in a group of 20 and want to kill one player, if any of these systems are in place, all you need to do is drop the group for a second. If you don't want to kill the player enough to drop group, then obviously you don't want to kill that player very much.
Basically, the core of Ashes is the node system, and PvP exists in Ashes to prevent that node system from being static (which would result in the game essentially being a themepark like every other MMO).
From there, it is important to not that the karma system in L2 was the core PvP system in that game, whereas the corruption system in Ashes is designed to be the "if it doesn't fit anywhere else, it fits here" system.
This means that while the corruption system in Ashes and the karma system in L2 can be compared in terms of their mechanics, they shouldn't be compared in terms of the goals each is trying to achieve.
If you look over that list of things you have there, almost every situation is now a slight personal preference, rather than being the only way to deal with a situation.
All a minor alteration to teh system would do (there are three being discussed here that I am aware of) is slightly alter your preferred means of dealing with each situation. Some of the situations are not even calling for an alteration at all.
That's my point.
The proposition has no merit.
It fails to curb group griefing.
It hinders group fighting.
Group fighting should not be undertaken under the corruption system. I can't be more clear on this point. Any time a full group of players have reason to be involved in PvP, there is a system that should be taking over that is not corruption based.
That is the reason all the other systems exist.
There may still be cases where whole groups want to fight, but they should be very rare. None of the three systems proposed would prevent a group from doing this if they really wanted to do it.
This can be said of the corruption system as a whole if you want.
Taking this line of thinking to it's conclusion, the only way to prevent griefing is to prevent all forms of player interaction, including PvP. Obviously, that is rediculous.
The goal of these systems isn't to prevent griefing, as that is an impossible ask - even if it is parroted by some players as the purpose of them.
Rather, the goal of these systems is to influence player behavior to more desired avenues, but in a way where players are not prevented from killing someone they have reason to want to kill. The only thing the corruption system does is raise the threshold for where players will consider it worth it.
None of the three suggested ideas here would alter that. All of them allow players to still kill anyone they want to kill - which is as it should be. All any of the systems proposed would do is raise the threshold for when players in a group would consider it worth attacking others.
The notion that a suggestion would fail to curb griefing is really not something to even bother bringing up, as the only way to prevent griefing is to turn Ashes in to a single player game.
With the proposed system of this topic the winners have 2 options:
A. Let that green player rez their fallen members
B. Gain full group corruption.
It's dump.
This proposition fails.
Corruption as a concept is here to prevent players from going on a killing spree. So it DOES NOT fail to address griefing.
That was it for today. Ill return to see how many pages this topic will reach with this pointless group corruption suggestion.
You aren't keeping up with the discussion.
There are three suggestions in play now, not one.
However, you also seem to be totally ignoring the fact that any reasonble reason for group vs grou pPvP to exist will be able to be undertaken outside of the corruption system.
Ah, Archeage. I got to play that for all but a few hours a few years back before region locked out of it.
Working in multiple different countries with region locks, shockingly poor connections pretty much killed the genre for a long period of time
I
From what I have read online, what Archeage doesn`t have in pvp gravity compared to L2, it well and truly makes up for by diversity and depth of things to do.
Linage 2 has aged and compared to what is available on the market now, but remains popular despite its age but is very much a niche. I tried going back after 5 years out and just couldn`t stomach the grind after playing other MMO`s that were no where near as demanding.
Only game that I have played since that was possibly more intense pvp than L2 was Age of Conan when it first came out. It was just a perpetual mess of opportunistic pvp when I first played. That pushed the boundary of what was acceptable.
But MMO`s in general have so much more to do, and this one is shaping up to have a lot of interesting options to pass the time
To me, this is why corruption can't be directly compared to karma. While each sysm is similar, they exist in games that are vastly different. As such, each of these two similar systems do serve a different purpose.
It's really hard to quantify the current threshold considering it hasn't been tested. I'm flat out against the idea of suggesting further corruption penalties until we get more details. As it stands right now all open world pvp involving groups will likely at the very least, risk corruption when initiating an attack until we know if the development team is open to creating some sort of manual flagging option or forced flagging once a member of a party engages in pvp (to prevent the holdout scenario) I see no reason to continue any discussions related to corruption penalties.
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
George said 'curb', you say 'prevent' and tell him why he's wrong.
Curb ≠ prevent.
curb: to control or limit something that is not wanted
prevent: to stop something from happening or someone from doing something
I'm not sure if you are being dishonest or don't know what these words mean.
The goal of these systems is to CURB griefing.
The player flagging and corruption system are designed to curb griefing, by way of penalties in order to "influence player behavior", thereby preventing some instances of griefing.
We can see that by the fact that the attacker gains a higher penalty for killing a lower level player, the golden standard for griefing.
1 player may not flag is irrelevant.
Group v Group is intended to occur where Corruption is not a factor.
I think, most likely, we should expect full group Corruption in order to "curb" group v group combat that is not part of Caravans or Sieges.
But, we need more details about how the system works.
Great example for a Livestream question.
This seems naive to consider the focus of group pvp to be limited to objective based pvp. Do you consider certain EXP spawns, loot spawns, dungeon bosses, dungeon camps etc all to have no merit for group pvp?
In one of the streams Steven was asked about a scenario if two groups show up at the same camp and want it. He offered the following suggestions:
1) that they could talk it out and see how long the group who was there first would be
2) coordinate a shared rotation
3) fight over the spawn
Now I imagine this is going to be classified as a hunting ground subject to corruption in the example above, so it seems likely that corruption due to group pvp can and will occur outside of objective based pvp.
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
I didn't use the word never - that is a word you introduced.
(also, I purposefully used the word curb rather than the word prevent)
The hunting ground group vs group pvp will be a catalyst for nearly all of the objective based pvp to feed from. Their entire class system is being designed and balanced for group vs group pvp does it not seem to reason that mostly all pvp in the game will come down to group vs group? Since this is a rather vague term it could be 2v2, 5v8 or 24vs40 all in corruption flagged content.
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
Dygz: Believes that group combat is not intended for hunting ground(s), further punishing groups that partake in hunting ground pvp with more corruption is the correct way to limit group pvp from occurring during hunting ground(s).
Does that sum it up or did I miss anything?
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
And, yes, you are missing significant portions of what I did write.
You missed out how L2 was providing 24/7 PvP sources, yet I said PK was still happening and nobody felt griefed.
Ashes is not L2.
Ah.... who said anything about Ashes being L2?
You said "ashes has pvp activities. PK wont be a must"
I said another game had pvp activities. Pk still happened.
Are we talking the same language here?
And here we are 5 pages later moving away from the topic of whether a group of players should gain group punishment for attacking 1 non combatant.
An over reaction to being outnumbered
A failure to counter group ganging
A possible exploit
Yet you keep defending the idea that PK should spread to a group because you dont have the will to find friends and fight back and want the game to become more combat restrictive (asHeS hAs MaNY pvP eVEnts) because you are delusioned in thinking that 20 people want to find you alone and "win".
Typical forums, ego fights, no merit.
One more month for me and Ill start real testing and true feedback.
You keep at playing the intelectuals for pages unend.
Remember Steven saying that in addition to burning corruption status there will be activities to lower PK count?
How difficult SHOULD these activities be?
Should they be group focus? Lengthy? Challenging.
Should redemption for PKing be easy?
In previous "noN aSHes gAmes" I always stayed at 3 PK at all times to avoid dropping gear on death. Every time I'd easily do the redemption quest to lower my PK count to 0. Easily.
I am pretty sure nobody bothered taking note of this mentioning at the dev updates and interviews. Even more so nobody though it was a good topic to discuss.
I am of the opinion that reducing PK count (to avoid dropping gear while corrupted) should be a challenging task, to hold you accountable. That way griefers would think twice about killing random ppl often.
"What you seem to be missing is that in Ashes, the focus of group v group encounters is objective-based PvP - Castles Sieges, Node Sieges and Caravans.
1 player may not flag is irrelevant.
Group v Group is intended to occur where Corruption is not a factor.
I think, most likely, we should expect full group Corruption in order to "curb" group v group combat that is not part of Caravans or Sieges."
You responded:
"You missed out how L2 was providing 24/7 PvP sources, yet I said PK was still happening and nobody felt griefed."
You are the one who brought up L2 for whatever reason. And I said L2 is irrelevant.
I did not say PK won't be a must. I didn't even think that, so I definitely did not say it.
I also did not say, "Ashes has PvP activities."
🥱
Given that L2 is a complete / working example such pvp mechanics, and AoC is a largely unpublic exposed / tested mechanic, L2 makes a solid point of reference for the time being and is quite relevant.
If there are other games that also overlap/referenced in this mechanic, then perhaps voice what they are too.
I can appreciate for some, that playing L2 under those mechanics, and reading and interpreting how those mechanics might work for those that didn`t play L2 might create a divided interpretation.
Suggest anyone in this thread that hasn`t already to read the wiki. It really does lay out what is likely to occur.
As far as I could read, whilst there will be plenty to fight over in dedicated areas, there is still potential for conflict fair or otherwise with consequences, just like L2.
It sure must be nice to claim everyone has no idea wtf you're getting at and then refusing to explain it just quoting your original post, because that has been working so far to get your point across.
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts