How NPC's can be made "better".

akabear

Perhaps Clans have a limited hand in determining/chosing what NPC types / activities / even outfits are in their clan hall proximity to provide a player driven dynamic. (sandbox not theme park)

Percimes

bloodprophet wrote: »

A friend of mine was telling me about a Ranger in EQ that roamed the woods and if she caught you killing the wildlife she would attack. Think she was higher level and was tough to kill. He also said you needed to farm the animals to level.
Never got that far in EQ. Someone else know the whole story?

I don't remember that specific Ranger, but I can guess the basic mechanic of it. One of the great thing EQ did but that wasn't used as much in other MMOs was the complex factions system. Your basic standing with NPCs was based on your race and religion, but almost every mobs you killed would increase your standing with certain faction(s) and decrease your standing with other faction(s).

Killing some animals would decrease your factions with the druids, so would killing trents. Past a certain level you would become kill on sight for druids (or rangers of the same god) NPCs. So having a druid PC teleport you to a druid circle meant being attacked on arrival by all NPCs there.

I remember a roaming npc guard in the commonlands that was famous for killing low level dark elves. Sergeant Slate if I remember right.

But it also work the other way. I had a Erudite Shadow Knight (evil god) that was barely neutral the the main erudite city, but kill on sight in Qeynos, the only city I could reach from my starting island by boat. On arrival I had to jump in the water and enter the sewers to avoid the guards. In the sewers there was a guild of necromancers from another evil god that tolerated me, enough to use the bank where I had put reserve of food and water. There was a secret door to exit the sewers and the city. I had to fight in a dungeon of gnolls to improve my faction with the city of Qeynos. From kos I became tolerated by the guards, but the merchants wouldn't sell me anything. Then, after a few more gnolls, I could get bread and water and sell the loot I had.

That kind of thing was all over the game. In the 3rd expansion you had to choose if you aligned yourself with the dwarves or the giants, for the quests and loot. I don't think I've seen a faction/reputation system that elaborate since EQ.

Valic

PlagueMonk wrote: »

While i would LOVE all of this, I also have to be realistic. This is not going to be a single player experience and as such, trying to give every random NPC in depth dialogue and meaning to the area would be a daunting task considering both the scope of the world and the randomness of nodes.

I would just be happy if all of the NPC's weren't just standing around in the same freakin' place 24/7/365 waiting for us to interact with them.

Keep in mind they can do client-side based dialogue. They don't need to adjust dialogue to fit everyone depending on the game's development in the maps, but they can read the files of your character and go "ah, so they've done this, I say this".

PlagueMonk

Valic wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

While i would LOVE all of this, I also have to be realistic. This is not going to be a single player experience and as such, trying to give every random NPC in depth dialogue and meaning to the area would be a daunting task considering both the scope of the world and the randomness of nodes.

I would just be happy if all of the NPC's weren't just standing around in the same freakin' place 24/7/365 waiting for us to interact with them.

Keep in mind they can do client-side based dialogue. They don't need to adjust dialogue to fit everyone depending on the game's development in the maps, but they can read the files of your character and go "ah, so they've done this, I say this".

Sure, all random NPC's could see that you were the hero that saved them from the dragon and praise you as you walk by or give you the 'hero's discount' or other things of that sort. That's easy.

What I was implying is the in depth encounters you have in a game like Dragon Age where there are extensive dialogue trees for most NPCs that take past actions, class and even race into account when speaking with you. It would be cool but I would rather the Devs focus their efforts elsewhere. If I want that level of NPC depth I can play a single-player game. This is an MMORPG and we should be getting our deep conversations from other players.

Kionashi

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Valic wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

While i would LOVE all of this, I also have to be realistic. This is not going to be a single player experience and as such, trying to give every random NPC in depth dialogue and meaning to the area would be a daunting task considering both the scope of the world and the randomness of nodes.

I would just be happy if all of the NPC's weren't just standing around in the same freakin' place 24/7/365 waiting for us to interact with them.

Keep in mind they can do client-side based dialogue. They don't need to adjust dialogue to fit everyone depending on the game's development in the maps, but they can read the files of your character and go "ah, so they've done this, I say this".

Sure, all random NPC's could see that you were the hero that saved them from the dragon and praise you as you walk by or give you the 'hero's discount' or other things of that sort. That's easy.

What I was implying is the in depth encounters you have in a game like Dragon Age where there are extensive dialogue trees for most NPCs that take past actions, class and even race into account when speaking with you. It would be cool but I would rather the Devs focus their efforts elsewhere. If I want that level of NPC depth I can play a single-player game. This is an MMORPG and we should be getting our deep conversations from other players.

hey, let's not disregard the story and the narrative of the game just because is an MMO, I still want an engaging story and rich lore

Valic

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Sure, all random NPC's could see that you were the hero that saved them from the dragon and praise you as you walk by or give you the 'hero's discount' or other things of that sort. That's easy.

What I was implying is the in depth encounters you have in a game like Dragon Age where there are extensive dialogue trees for most NPCs that take past actions, class and even race into account when speaking with you. It would be cool but I would rather the Devs focus their efforts elsewhere. If I want that level of NPC depth I can play a single-player game. This is an MMORPG and we should be getting our deep conversations from other players.

Well by no means am I asking for that level of in depth-ness lol. Imo just having it as simple as eater egg triggers by things ya do, not necessarily as deep as class/race/gender/etc... Would encourage social encounters in the mmo. A means to ask someone about what an NPC's deal is or to let others know about them.

Not to mention the above post... but more important than the story imo is an immersive world. To me, NPC's that are just seen as AI machines comes off as a little... immersion breaking I suppose.

akabear

Suggest scale of NPC..

Height: something that caught me in BDO vs other MMORPGs was the size of the NPCs, that added variety of size change the whole feel!

Age: get some old and young about!

Valic

akabear wrote: »

Suggest scale of NPC..

Height: something that caught me in BDO vs other MMORPGs was the size of the NPCs, that added variety of size change the whole feel!

Age: get some old and young about!

This is another under-looked details in games. They have NPC's that end up all being the same range but never really enough that are elderly or children... or as simple as different heights that aren't super "out there". Some games had so much diversity that it was a little.... off putting? One example is guild wars 2 or Perfect World.... Seemed like they almost had "too much" diversity to where everything came off as strange/peculiar. FF14 and Aion imo did a good job of establishing a norm for the population of NPC's but still presented interesting ranges of ages and different types of NPC's as apart of the world.

Dygz

EQNext had Heroic Movement.
I was hoping to also eventually see Villainous Movement.
Supposedly, everyone who travels to Verra from Sanctus is a Hero.
I don't think that includes teens and the elderly.
Most likely, the closest we get to elderly will be grey/white hair on an otherwise 30 year-old visage.

FliP

Certainly one way to make NPCs "better" is to give them their own virtual life and routine.

Make Shopkeepers and Blacksmiths have "working times", make certain NPCs be at different places at different times, etc.

There are plenty of ways to make the world feel more real and alive.

daveywavey

Dygz wrote: »

Most likely, the closest we get to elderly will be grey/white hair on an otherwise 30 year-old visage.

Sounds familiar.....