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QOTD: What would you like to see added to artisan skills? (new skills/craftables/gatherables)

YuquiyuYuquiyu Member
edited November 2020 in General Discussion
id love to know what you guys think would be a nice addition to artisan stuff?
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Comments

  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I would need to see the skills to make any suggestions
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  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    It seems pretty feature complete to me. Maybe split weapon/armor smiting into their subtypes.
    It looks like you will have to specialize into say "Bows" as is, but I am not 100% sure.
    If weaponsmith can make all weapons, I would like to see it divided up per weapon.

    My reason is simply because it creates more niches, and thus more opportunity's. Both economically and socially speaking
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  • KhronusKhronus Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I am excited with what we are currently being shown about the artisan paths. It is forcing us to work as a community to trade and get things done (which I love).

    One thing I would like to see is to make the artisan choices actually have an INSANE amount of value for end game. None of this weaponsmiths best weapon is replaced by something quickly kind of junk. Raw materials being extremely rare, and having to rely on gatherers, processors and crafters, to make end game content would be amazing.
  • It's vital for me that the player fully stops moving while harvesting.

    I'm also making a full forum post about a scribe idea I would love to see implemented (them being able to make custom signs with an increased resolution based on investment into that skill)
  • Based on what I could read about Artisan Skills, they look fine to me as they are.

    It may already be in place, but what would be nice to have with high artisan skill levels, is a higher proc rate the higher your artisan skill is. A high artisan skill should not just unlock certain recipes or abilities, but logically thinking, the better you get at something, the more efficient you are.

    Therefore, a higher gathering level should allow you to sometimes get more items (or more rare items) from gathering.
    A high crafting level would increase the chance for a rare proc (higher grade, better stats, better quality). Processing would either let you process more items at once (10 by 10 instead of 1 by 1) or yield more products from a certain process (eg. beginner processing: 1 log -> 1 plank, advanced processing: 1 log -> 2~4 planks, master processing: 1 log -> 4~8 planks).
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  • FliP wrote: »
    Based on what I could read about Artisan Skills, they look fine to me as they are.

    It may already be in place, but what would be nice to have with high artisan skill levels, is a higher proc rate the higher your artisan skill is. A high artisan skill should not just unlock certain recipes or abilities, but logically thinking, the better you get at something, the more efficient you are.

    Therefore, a higher gathering level should allow you to sometimes get more items (or more rare items) from gathering.
    A high crafting level would increase the chance for a rare proc (higher grade, better stats, better quality). Processing would either let you process more items at once (10 by 10 instead of 1 by 1) or yield more products from a certain process (eg. beginner processing: 1 log -> 1 plank, advanced processing: 1 log -> 2~4 planks, master processing: 1 log -> 4~8 planks).

    interesting
    reminding me of albion online in a way
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  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited November 2020
    New World had some of the best crafting I have experienced in recent times, replicate their approach and I would be more than pleased!
    • XP gained per craft in that profession
    • Bulk crafting
    • Craft result improves with experience
    • Crafting an item returns within a level rather than just a level.
    • Higher your skill, the higher likelihood of a higher result craft
    • Add more base materials, increase your chances of a better craft
    • Add varius unique items into the crafting materials for a chance of a perk with the item
    • Individual part of pieces both dyable and dyes themselves were craftable.
    • Fantastic music/sounds with the craft to give weight to the success and process
  • SathragoSathrago Member
    edited November 2020
    One of the most interesting crafting systems I have encountered is within Mortal Online, where basically you can decide what kind of materials to use and how much to use when crafting almost any item in the game from alchemy to weapons. Both factors changed the stats on the gear, be it durability, damage, healing, duration... whatever effects would happen per material, and if they synergized with the other materials used in the craft. More was also not always better, so finding the perfect amount of materials to use in the crafting was a skill in itself.

    I do not recommend playing Mortal Online, but I definitely recommend taking a look at their extensive crafting system.
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  • akabear wrote: »
    New World had some of the best crafting I have experienced in recent times, replicate their approach and I would be more than pleased!
    • XP gained per craft in that profession
    • Bulk crafting
    • Craft result improves with experience
    • Crafting an item returns within a level rather than just a level.
    • Higher your skill, the higher likelihood of a higher result craft
    • Add more base materials, increase your chances of a better craft
    • Add varius unique items into the crafting materials for a chance of a perk with the item
    • Individual part of pieces both dyable and dyes themselves were craftable.
    • Fantastic music/sounds with the craft to give weight to the success and process

    I COMPLETELY disagree that bulk crafting should be in the game. Bulk crafting somewhat devalues the time investment of creating lower-cost crafts. All crafts should be manual.
  • Penguinos wrote: »
    akabear wrote: »
    New World had some of the best crafting I have experienced in recent times, replicate their approach and I would be more than pleased!
    • XP gained per craft in that profession
    • Bulk crafting
    • Craft result improves with experience
    • Crafting an item returns within a level rather than just a level.
    • Higher your skill, the higher likelihood of a higher result craft
    • Add more base materials, increase your chances of a better craft
    • Add varius unique items into the crafting materials for a chance of a perk with the item
    • Individual part of pieces both dyable and dyes themselves were craftable.
    • Fantastic music/sounds with the craft to give weight to the success and process

    I COMPLETELY disagree that bulk crafting should be in the game. Bulk crafting somewhat devalues the time investment of creating lower-cost crafts. All crafts should be manual.

    There are acceptable exceptions: many sub-components for bigger items (nails, rivets, planks, arrow parts, ...). Having to make them one at the time would be very tedious. I'd say the same for any kind of ammunition (arrows, bolts, ... rotten eggs).
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  • KhronusKhronus Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    @Penguinos

    I don't understand the issue with bulk crafting......is it really such a big deal that I don't want to have to click individually on every single thing I want to craft? Make 10 bandages, click 10 times vs a QOL improvement of just typing 10 in and hit start. I'm ok with my "time investment" being stolen from me when crafting low level items haha.

    Also, it's vital to have to stand still to farm something? Why? I can take this one or leave it to be honest. I really like the idea of smashing a rock and chopping a hammer while on the go. It's mindless farming anyway so why not make it so we don't have to queue up the exact same animation every single time you farm something. Being that this will be heavy in the pvp scene, you would think standing still for X time (repeatedly) just wouldn't make sense in this world.

    Scribe is a great idea. Sending mail/mailboxes would be a cool addition. Gatherers can collect specific materials for it and scribe can be placed into the processor artisan.
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    @Penguinos I would disagree with you on the bulk crafting but it all depends if there is a need or not for massive amounts of expendables and if want to make ALOT of something.

    In past experience, when doing a craft of 5-20,000 shots & arrows (expendables) in one bulk session for a few days worth of shots, the last thing I want to do is either a) press 1 at a time b) rig up the keyboard/bindings to repeat (luckily L2 only required weight to be put on the F5 key and that was sufficient to repeat the action until done) but border against code of conduct.

    In New World, I bulk crafted between 50-100 items at the time. I was well past the tedium of crafting one by one and was quite thankful for it.
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Sathrago wrote: »
    One of the most interesting crafting systems I have encountered is within Mortal Online, where basically you can decide what kind of materials to use and how much to use when crafting almost any item in the game from alchemy to weapons. Both factors changed the stats on the gear, be it durability, damage, healing, duration... whatever effects would happen per material, and if they synergized with the other materials used in the craft. More was also not always better, so finding the perfect amount of materials to use in the crafting was a skill in itself.
    I would love to see some high/special level crafting recipies have combinations of materials that are unique to the player that could only be obtained through experimentation to bring back that sense of wonder through trying in game, rather than everything set. and unique to the player to avoid players just cheating and looking it p on the net later, rewarding those that explore the game potential
  • @akabear I think that each and every craftable should be manual. My only exception is when there is a bulk version of a recipe. I do not think that someone should be able to look at materials and instantly turn them into a thousand single-recipe bolts. It would be much more beneficial, in my eyes, for there to be bulk, high-level recipes, for lower-level consumables. This in and of itself would be a form of progression!
  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Wouldn't it make sense to make arrows in, say, bundles of 20?
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  • The better you are at a profession, the more efficient you get.

    By leveling your profession, you should either (or both):
    a) have a proc give you additional products per craft
    b) allow you to mass process

    This only makes sense. Obviously, you won't make 1000 arrows in a single craft, but going from 1 arrow at a time as a beginner to 10-20 arrows at a time as a professional only seems logically right.
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  • SathragoSathrago Member
    edited November 2020
    maouw wrote: »
    Wouldn't it make sense to make arrows in, say, bundles of 20?

    no damnit I want you to craft the shaft, the feathers, the arrow head and the damn twine/glue to bind it all together. EACH. TIME. Also they will require you to purchase vr gloves as you are required to actually craft these items by real hand. If you mess it up your arrow breaks or misses the target.
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  • Sathrago wrote: »
    maouw wrote: »
    Wouldn't it make sense to make arrows in, say, bundles of 20?

    no damnit I want you to craft the shaft, the feathers, the arrow head and the damn twine/glue to bind it all together. EACH. TIME. Also they will require you to purchase vr gloves as you are required to actually craft these items by real hand. If you mess it up your arrow breaks or misses the target.

    That would be so fun! It would make a complete merchant economy.
  • Penguinos wrote: »
    Sathrago wrote: »
    maouw wrote: »
    Wouldn't it make sense to make arrows in, say, bundles of 20?

    no damnit I want you to craft the shaft, the feathers, the arrow head and the damn twine/glue to bind it all together. EACH. TIME. Also they will require you to purchase vr gloves as you are required to actually craft these items by real hand. If you mess it up your arrow breaks or misses the target.

    That would be so fun! It would make a complete merchant economy.

    Ashes of Creation 2 VR, in stores 2031.
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  • akabear wrote: »
    Sathrago wrote: »
    One of the most interesting crafting systems I have encountered is within Mortal Online, where basically you can decide what kind of materials to use and how much to use when crafting almost any item in the game from alchemy to weapons. Both factors changed the stats on the gear, be it durability, damage, healing, duration... whatever effects would happen per material, and if they synergized with the other materials used in the craft. More was also not always better, so finding the perfect amount of materials to use in the crafting was a skill in itself.
    I would love to see some high/special level crafting recipies have combinations of materials that are unique to the player that could only be obtained through experimentation to bring back that sense of wonder through trying in game, rather than everything set. and unique to the player to avoid players just cheating and looking it p on the net later, rewarding those that explore the game potential

    Regarding experimentation and a sense of wonder, I think this is romanticized and sounds cool but is really frustrating in game. I am imagining a system like skyrim's ingredient effect discovery system or PoE's synthesis league crafting. I do not want things to be convoluted or require many many repetitions highly contingent on RNG/luck. For example with Skyrim, without having a spreadsheet or something to look up online, you could get very unlucky and require your own spreadsheet of attempted and failed combinations to find all ingredient effects. This could potentially take a very high number of tries depending on your luck. This is not fun, imo.

    In fact, I would really like to see some UI pop up during crafting where it describes the probabilistic nature of the outcome of stats etc on gear based on what resources (with a given quality etc) are being utilized. The devs can fine tune how much hand-holding is too much here but having crafting require you to use a third party website with some massive spread sheet is very off-putting and provides an arbitrary and high barrier to entry. There are much better ways to allow people to invest heavily and become better experts in crafting than having access to the most complete spreadsheet or getting lucky on some random trial and error discovery system that consumes your resources.
  • FliP wrote: »
    Penguinos wrote: »
    Sathrago wrote: »
    maouw wrote: »
    Wouldn't it make sense to make arrows in, say, bundles of 20?

    no damnit I want you to craft the shaft, the feathers, the arrow head and the damn twine/glue to bind it all together. EACH. TIME. Also they will require you to purchase vr gloves as you are required to actually craft these items by real hand. If you mess it up your arrow breaks or misses the target.

    That would be so fun! It would make a complete merchant economy.

    Ashes of Creation 2 VR, in stores 2031.

    ooh, I can't wait! first good VRMMO!
  • I want the crafting branch of the artisan system to be engaging and complex. My idea is having a bunch
    of different stations to process items in certain ways to get different effects during crafting and each station having branching paths to customise even more and allow player expression in their creations , i/e

    You want to make a flaming sword, you need a sword blade and a handle to make all kind of swords, first you go to the forge station to smelt your ingots and place them with your sword blade pattern you need 3 ingots to fill the pattern, but in order to make flaming swords you need fire infused iron instead of normal iron. you can use 3 fire infused iron ingots in the recipe to have the highest fire attack buff but if you use 2 fire infused iron ingots and 1 steel ingot you get less fire damage but get a strength bonus or just use 2 fire infused iron ingots and 1 regular iron ingot if you want a cheaper flaming sword. Now you got your blade, you could place it in a handle right now, or you could sharpen the blade for it to get better stats, so you go to the grindstone station, there you can decrease the weapon's durability in order to get a flat damage bonus the more fragile you decide to make it, the more damage it will do. Now you have your blade, now you need a handle to finish the sword, you can make a handle in the forge with a handle pattern and one metal ingot, depending on the pattern you can get a regular handle or a jewelled handle that has a gem slot, if you go for the jewelled handle you sacrifice 20% of the stats the handle provided in order to allow for gems to be encrusted in there. If you take the jewelled handle to the crafting bench station you can add gems to your handle, if you add a ruby you can get a %physical damage of the sword converted to fire damage depending on the quality of the ruby. Once you have your handle and your blade you can mix them in a crafting bench in order to get the finished sword.

    I know it sounds intimidating having that wall of text just to make a sword. But in the end, you have a lot of opportunities to express yourself as a artisan to make something that represents your playstyle.
  • CrosimCrosim Member
    edited December 2020
    I think there might be a little bit of confusion on the method of mass crafting aka bear was speaking of in New World. In that game you can slip up to a tanning rack or smelter and it takes the same time to crat 1 ingot as it does 100.

    With processing being a kind of artisan class itself, I doubt instant mass crafting of that style will be a thing? I get the idea that processing is going to be a sort of bottleneck on how quickly a player of group of players can react to something in the economy.

    As an example: Someone discovers the level 35 crafting material of idk .. jade, does more damage in dagger form than a level 45 longsword if it has a specific enchantment on it. A bug. You could have an army of gathers go out there and mine up all the jade on the server, but it might take a day or two for the market to get properly flooded with each ingot having to craft up over time at your homestead etc. Perhaps it takes 3 minutes to process one of the components of the jade dagger, and needs five of them in total. Meaning a person could only make 4 jade daggers an hour.

    (I don't know if thats remotely how processing is going to work, feel free to call me stupid if I missed some info somewhere.)

    As for crafting arrows and the like, I don't think they would make you have to manually craft each arrow, or even stacks of arrows. I feel like that level of tedium would just ask for players to use a kind of 3rd party automation.

    I am personally going right into the breeding and taming aspects of the game, so I am looking to make some truly horrendous looking mounts/pets out there with great stats.
  • Crosim wrote: »
    I think there might be a little bit of confusion on the method of mass crafting aka bear was speaking of in New World. In that game you can slip up to a tanning rack or smelter and it takes the same time to crat 1 ingot as it does 100.

    With processing being a kind of artisan class itself, I doubt instant mass crafting of that style will be a thing? I get the idea that processing is going to be a sort of bottleneck on how quickly a player of group of players can react to something in the economy.

    As an example: Someone discovers the level 35 crafting material of idk .. jade, does more damage in dagger form than a level 45 longsword if it has a specific enchantment on it. A bug. You could have an army of gathers go out there and mine up all the jade on the server, but it might take a day or two for the market to get properly flooded with each ingot having to craft up over time at your homestead etc. Perhaps it takes 3 minutes to process one of the components of the jade dagger, and needs five of them in total. Meaning a person could only make 4 jade daggers an hour.

    (I don't know if thats remotely how processing is going to work, feel free to call me stupid if I missed some info somewhere.)

    As for crafting arrows and the like, I don't think they would make you have to manually craft each arrow, or even stacks of arrows. I feel like that level of tedium would just ask for players to use a kind of 3rd party automation.

    I am personally going right into the breeding and taming aspects of the game, so I am looking to make some truly horrendous looking mounts/pets out there with great stats.

    do you really think individual arrows will be a thing in the game? let's be real guys....you will probably just have a bow and get infinite arrows from your quiver.

    But yeah, I honestly can't think on many mass produced consumables that will keep your everyday player glued to a crafting station for hours.......
  • I posed this previously but chose to repost rather than link

    I see a LOT of good things in the Trade Skills that has been mentioned thus far but there appears to be one glaring omission imho.......

    Gathering:
    - Hunting (will provide meat and hides)
    - Gatherer (This could be gathering berries, roots, etc and even cotton. Whatever is not covered by Herbalist)

    Processing:
    - Butchery (Providing finished meats that could also be used for cooking)
    - Tanning (For Leather Working)
    - Weaving / Dying (For Tailor)

    Crafting:
    - Seamstress / Tailor (Creates robes, cloaks, gloves, and any other cloth based goods)
    - Leather Worker (Leather goods like water skins, backpacks, pouches, shoes, boots, etc. along with base layers for armor like
    studded, scale, partial plate, etc)

    Are we really supposed to buy our Mage Robes, and sturdy boots from the local Armorer who should be focusing on your chain or plate armor?

    I fully admit the idea for this came straight out of DAoC that had a lot of these very crafts and required components. I spent MANY long hours watching progress bars waiting for a "bong* or a "ping*
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