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PvP rewards every 6 months? Nah

MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
edited November 2020 in General Discussion
Steven explained in interviews with streamers that PvP rewards will be granted every 6 months. These rewards will be in the form of enchants that make your character more powerful in PvP scenarios. These rewards will be proportional to your PvP performance based on the 6 month long season. To keep these enchants, you need to continusly play PvP and perform.

In my opinion, having 6 month long seasons is a mistake. I believe major season rewards should be awarded every 3 months and minor rewards should be awarded every month. These kind of rewards will be for progression.

Minor rewards can be resources for crafting. Major rewards can be Weapon enchants and trinkets designed for PvP oriented play.

Every 6 months, you can reward the best players with cosmetic skins instead. Armor cosmetics for good performance, and weapon cosmetics for exceptional performance. Alternativly, different colors for performance.

Every year, you can reward players with cosmetic mounts and titles. Again, different colors and effects for perfromance.


I seriously don't think people like waiting 6 months to start a fresh PvP season with the AoC system. Either you offer constant rewards with 6 months performance rewards. Or you make progression windows shorter.



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Comments

  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited November 2020
    No. Your suggestion comes close to retainer rewards and fomo, a marketing gimmick

    It would create artificial need to PvP, instead of what the game aims to provide:
    an open world where natural conflict of interests occurs.

    People may even start doing silly things, such as feed PvP deaths for next months gear rewards.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    6 months is a good timeframe to give strong adventurers a chance to improve their gear. It's a nice social festive touch.

    It isnt too frequent that would disturb their otherwise normal activities.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP_seasons

    To me a seasonal PvP reward system that gives anything other than cosmetic rewards is a massive mistake.

    If the gear enchantments are unique that creates two problems. One, It potentially devalues the other enchantments already in the economy. Two, it creates a situation where you have to wait six months to get some enchantments people already have. If you start playing 7 months after launch, you have to wait 5 months to get access to some stuff other PvPers already have. These enchantments may be a big deal. If they are good to the point that PvPing without them is unenjoyable. It might not sink the game, but it will for sure be a hole in the ship.

    During the month of the reward payouts the value of all enchantments is likely to go down. Not the end of the world, but a little annoying. I could see a lot going wrong with this system, and very little going right.

    If the reward was a cosmetic mount, armor, or weapon skin unique to that 6 month season. It would have less of a negative impact on the rest of the game, but still incentivize players to participate. I honestly think intrepid should rethink this system.
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    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited November 2020
    I agree with @Vhaeyne
    What he says gives me AA flashbacks and it was terrible.

    Mmorpgs are not favourable to new players. People who start later have the gaming catch up to do anyway.
    They shouldnt be left further behind because they missed out on all those monthly rewards.

    All items should be awarded by the game itself, not GM handouts.
    We dont need them.
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The way I see it is 6 months may be a long period in the game's infancy but later on, I would hope that there was sufficient variance of in-game individual achievements coupled with the games success and potential for longevity such that this kind of title/reward for a player would have significant meaning to the whole server, the person might be renown enough to have earned the reputation regardless and a 6-month reign would be a fair reward.
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    To me a seasonal PvP reward system that gives anything other than cosmetic rewards is a massive mistake.

    Agreed. If you only ever make the strongest players stronger, then the divide grows to a point where you have a massive imbalance, and then the only option is to start nerfing/re-balancing/etc, and that's where things start going wrong...!
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    So, I find myself totally agreeing with @Vhaeyne @George Black and @daveywavey
  • FliPFliP Member, Alpha Two
    In my opinion, there shouldn't even be PvP Seasons, especially if its a ladder system.

    If every reward can be unlocked by everyone based on their pvp performance, that's something I can live with, but if the best rewards are reserved for the top50 people, it's counterproductive to PvP.

    What this tells people, if you don't start on Day1 and play PvP all day everyday, you shouldn't even bother getting into it.

    6 months is a long time to keep this kind of daily performance up.
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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Depends on what the actual PvP rewards are.
    What does "more powerful" entail?
  • TyrantorTyrantor Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Who needs "rewards" for pvp outside of the actual gameplay anyway. I could see it from a ladder standpoint in Arena play but outside of that it seems irrelevant to me.
    Tyrantor
    Master Assassin
    (Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
    Book suggestions:
    Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I agree that cosmetics of some kind are preferable to enchants or anything else that gives a mechanical advantage. Personally I like the idea of titles you can earn to show off how good you are.
     
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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Sometimes it's about want; not need.
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Tyrantor wrote: »
    Who needs "rewards" for pvp outside of the actual gameplay anyway. I could see it from a ladder standpoint in Arena play but outside of that it seems irrelevant to me.

    Well that's novel, now I also agree with @Tyrantor on this.
  • MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    No. Your suggestion comes close to retainer rewards and fomo, a marketing gimmick

    It would create artificial need to PvP, instead of what the game aims to provide:
    an open world where natural conflict of interests occurs.

    People may even start doing silly things, such as feed PvP deaths for next months gear rewards.

    Becauuse that does not apply to the specific PVP enchants we will get now and need to upkeep every week
  • MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP_seasons

    To me a seasonal PvP reward system that gives anything other than cosmetic rewards is a massive mistake.

    If the gear enchantments are unique that creates two problems. One, It potentially devalues the other enchantments already in the economy. Two, it creates a situation where you have to wait six months to get some enchantments people already have. If you start playing 7 months after launch, you have to wait 5 months to get access to some stuff other PvPers already have. These enchantments may be a big deal. If they are good to the point that PvPing without them is unenjoyable. It might not sink the game, but it will for sure be a hole in the ship.

    During the month of the reward payouts the value of all enchantments is likely to go down. Not the end of the world, but a little annoying. I could see a lot going wrong with this system, and very little going right.

    If the reward was a cosmetic mount, armor, or weapon skin unique to that 6 month season. It would have less of a negative impact on the rest of the game, but still incentivize players to participate. I honestly think intrepid should rethink this system.

    To me offering anything other then cosmetic rewards from PvE devalues the economy awdpqjawkopiqwdkq
  • MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP_seasons

    To me a seasonal PvP reward system that gives anything other than cosmetic rewards is a massive mistake.

    If the gear enchantments are unique that creates two problems. One, It potentially devalues the other enchantments already in the economy. Two, it creates a situation where you have to wait six months to get some enchantments people already have. If you start playing 7 months after launch, you have to wait 5 months to get access to some stuff other PvPers already have. These enchantments may be a big deal. If they are good to the point that PvPing without them is unenjoyable. It might not sink the game, but it will for sure be a hole in the ship.

    During the month of the reward payouts the value of all enchantments is likely to go down. Not the end of the world, but a little annoying. I could see a lot going wrong with this system, and very little going right.

    If the reward was a cosmetic mount, armor, or weapon skin unique to that 6 month season. It would have less of a negative impact on the rest of the game, but still incentivize players to participate. I honestly think intrepid should rethink this system.

    Just so you know, there will be PvP enchants. And they will be better for PvP. Already comfiremd
  • MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Depends on what the actual PvP rewards are.
    What does "more powerful" entail?

    They are more effective than anything else in pvp specific situations. Thats official right now.
  • MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Tyrantor wrote: »
    Who needs "rewards" for pvp outside of the actual gameplay anyway. I could see it from a ladder standpoint in Arena play but outside of that it seems irrelevant to me.

    Who needs rewards from crafting and PvE QWEJWQJEJEQW
  • MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    FliP wrote: »
    In my opinion, there shouldn't even be PvP Seasons, especially if its a ladder system.

    If every reward can be unlocked by everyone based on their pvp performance, that's something I can live with, but if the best rewards are reserved for the top50 people, it's counterproductive to PvP.

    What this tells people, if you don't start on Day1 and play PvP all day everyday, you shouldn't even bother getting into it.

    6 months is a long time to keep this kind of daily performance up.

    The best PvE and crafting rewards will be reserved for the best players as well. Not rewarding more dedicated players for their dedication is how to kill a game 101
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Marzzo wrote: »
    FliP wrote: »
    In my opinion, there shouldn't even be PvP Seasons, especially if its a ladder system.

    If every reward can be unlocked by everyone based on their pvp performance, that's something I can live with, but if the best rewards are reserved for the top50 people, it's counterproductive to PvP.

    What this tells people, if you don't start on Day1 and play PvP all day everyday, you shouldn't even bother getting into it.

    6 months is a long time to keep this kind of daily performance up.

    The best PvE and crafting rewards will be reserved for the best players as well. Not rewarding more dedicated players for their dedication is how to kill a game 101

    The rewards from PvP should come from that PvP.

    If the rewards are not present for that, then you have an issue. However, that issue is not in any arbitrary ladder system with a reward, but rather in the fact that the PvP itself isn't rewarding enough.

    Comparisons to PvE are only appropriate if PvE also has a ladder system that rewards enchants every 6 months.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Marzzo wrote: »
    They are more effective than anything else in pvp specific situations. That's official right now.
    More effective is better than more powerful.
    If it's "more effective" rather than "more powerful", I have no problem with it...yet.
  • TyrantorTyrantor Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Marzzo wrote: »
    Tyrantor wrote: »
    Who needs "rewards" for pvp outside of the actual gameplay anyway. I could see it from a ladder standpoint in Arena play but outside of that it seems irrelevant to me.

    Who needs rewards from crafting and PvE QWEJWQJEJEQW

    I'm not sure, not me on any of the above. Did you have a stroke?
    Tyrantor
    Master Assassin
    (Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
    Book suggestions:
    Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Tyrantor wrote: »
    Marzzo wrote: »
    Tyrantor wrote: »
    Who needs "rewards" for pvp outside of the actual gameplay anyway. I could see it from a ladder standpoint in Arena play but outside of that it seems irrelevant to me.

    Who needs rewards from crafting and PvE QWEJWQJEJEQW

    I'm not sure, not me on any of the above. Did you have a stroke?

    That or a cat walked on the keyboard
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Nagash wrote: »
    Tyrantor wrote: »
    Marzzo wrote: »
    Tyrantor wrote: »
    Who needs "rewards" for pvp outside of the actual gameplay anyway. I could see it from a ladder standpoint in Arena play but outside of that it seems irrelevant to me.

    Who needs rewards from crafting and PvE QWEJWQJEJEQW

    I'm not sure, not me on any of the above. Did you have a stroke?

    That or a cat walked on the keyboard

    I think it was dancing, coz the key patterns look rhythmic
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • Couple of things:
    • I agree, that cosmetic only would be preferable, but depending on the strength of the enchants, i don't mind either way. Nobody else will mind either, if the enchantsments are either situational for pvp or just a slightly stronger than regular ones.
    • I agree, that 6 months seems rather long. 3 Months feels more apropriate, as that could just be from quarterly contentdrop to quarterly content drop. Also, 6 Months is a very long time to keep on top of something like a leaderboard. Feels like 3 Months with hard resets would also keep the system a bit more spicey. Just compare it to PoE. The league cycle of 3 months keep it interesting and people invested
    • Cosmetic rewards should also be rather simple to implement. Just as an example: rank 100 - 51 receives a pet skin. Rank 50-21 the pet skin + a mount skin. Rank 11-20 the pet, mount + costume. Rank 10-4 a special color variation, with 1, 2 and 3 once again with different shaders and maybe a couple of added particle effects, like a glowing aura, little sparks etc.

    Obviously the ranks are pulled out of the air, merely serving as an example. What it comes down to, is that cosmetic rewards can be easily scaled in quantity, shader-selection and amount of particle effects.
  • A lot of good commentary and thoughts here.

    Specifically PvP should be its own reward, and we know that does come down to a few things and one of them is based on the community itself. DAOC for example had an amazing PvP community when it first came out, later it became more about optimising group makeup but initially it was the most fun Ive had in a PvP based game and there were zero rewards.

    I have never liked feeling I have missed out on something so having season based (every 3 months) cosmetic based rewards that come around each year is ideal. How they handle that year to year is the challenge I guess.

    And last point is I'm a massive fan of fashion, so I would get behind cosmetic based rewards, like, achievements,titles, mounts,crafting, gear etc and would hope they would be account wide not character specific.
  • LeiloniLeiloni Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 2020
    I think the idea is exclusivity. He specifically says in one of those interviews that they don't really believe in PvP vs PvE gear, but that your gear should work everywhere, so I don't think these are going to have an overpowering impact. We've also seen the idea of exclusive rewards elsewhere in the game so it's an idea they're clearly into.

    My impression is that this is a temporary reward for those that do the best over a long period of time and go to an extreme length to get to the top in order to be able to get these rewards. So only a few people will have them. But remember it's a temporary reward - so you only get those PvP gemstones as long as you remain on top, which is unlikely.

    Also if it's just a gemstone, it's not going to have a massive impact on your overall stats that it's going to be game-breaking. It sounded like they'd have certain tiers of power, so depending on your overall ranking would depend on what tier of PvP gem you could buy. I also got the impression you'd have a currency as well that would control how much of said gem you could buy - and based on the systems other games have this is a rather typical system.

    I dunno until I see otherwise in a testing phase, it looks like a standard system to me. Especially given how much work goes into having them and maintaining them, you're not going to see everyone running around with them on. Someone who has them this season may very well lose it next season just because normal life sets in and they can't no life it for 6 months straight.

    Making one or three month seasons would change the system entirely and make it too easy and common and the same people would have it all the time, and adding other minor rewards on top of that would just ensure everyone has some sort of PvP stats in their gear, or has an entire PvP set. They're trying to avoid that and ensure that everyone can have a comparable gear set regardless of how they got it.
  • McShaveMcShave Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    - I like the PvP enchant rewards for seasons. Rewards are only for arena rating, and enchants are only on weapons.
    - The higher your rating, the better the enchant, but most players that participate in arena should get some sort of PvP enchant rewards.
    - Yes, seasons should be shorter. Anywhere from 1-4 months.
    - These enchants should not work in arenas, just to keep competition fair.
    - The PvP enchant will make you more effective against players, and should be useless in PVE situations.

    I think seeing a player with a high-rated PvP enchant out in the world would be badass. That way you know he's good at killing other players, and when he kills me I know that he probably would without the enchantment too lol. It would be up to balancing to make it fair tho. Intrepid can't make the enchant super strong so that it's imba, but it also has to be better than any other enchant for when you're fighting players.

    Having this type of reward would incentivise all sorts of players to do arena in order to be 3.5% better when participating in castle seiges, caravans, or whatever.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I wanted to also chime in that I like the idea of a season being 3 months.

    For the simple fact, that a season is 3 months long.
     
    Hhak63P.png
  • TyrantorTyrantor Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Based on the cool down period(s) of sieges it seems like 3 months would be way too short of a window to offer siege rewards but hey... again why it's even required is beyond me so who cares give people their participation trophies every week for all I care.
    Tyrantor
    Master Assassin
    (Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
    Book suggestions:
    Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
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