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Let's not have "the best weapon" please

I honestly think is pretty boring when in MMOs every character ends up with the same armor/weapon at the endgame. So I think a (relatively) easy way to avoid that problem is with a bigger focus on damage types and resistances in the world I want the game to have simple elemental damage and resistances on everything, most enemies will be strong vs certain damage types but weak to others so if you are planning to raid that Ice cave you can prepare by bringing a fire weapon and equipping ice resistant armor.

we could have both basic elemental damage/resistances like fire, ice, lightning...etc and even have different types of physical damage like slash, pierce and thrust.

I think is cool when you don't simply have "the best weapon in the game" that works best in every case, but an arsenal of situational weapons that are "the best" in certain areas. Of course, you could craft a jack of all trades weapon that will be ok everywhere, but if you want "the best weapon" you will have to specialise depending on the enemy you expect to fight. Same with armor, if you are going to raid a thieves guild hideout you better bring your poison and pierce resistant set to be the most effective.

I think this would be a win win for everybody.

1.-Artisans will be happy to be able to create tons of different weapons for every situation.
2.-Meta chasing will be a lot harder when every zone will have different types of enemies with different resistances and damage types so the meta in one place will be totally different to the meta in other nodes.
3.-It will make the preparations pre raid a lot more interesting.
4.-It will encourage spying and intelligence missions during guild wars, since knowing what kind of weapons/armor will bring your enemy guild to battle will help you prepare to counter their builds. Same with node wars, if you know this node is filled with armored bears that are vulnerable to pierce damage you can imagine most citizens will have pierce damage sets so you prepare your citizens to bring armor with high pierce resistance.

What you guys think?

Comments

  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    DDO had this. A different tool for every job. The result. I carried about twenty bows at all times, and different arrows. Not saying that is a bad thing. I like knowing that when I see a fire elemental. I can pull out my +5 icy burst long bow and some arrows of elemental bane.

    In a game where everything is crafted like AOC, this would do wonders for the economy. I like it and I want it.
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    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • I think the game is absolutely being designed in such a way that there's no best item for any given situation.

    You can see in the wiki article about progression that there is intended to be a lot of horizontal progression. And in the article about gearing, the 'best' items are related to what exactly you're trying to do at the time.

    You might also be interested in this recent discussion about elemental weapons.
  • For the preparation and the choice of equipment to be meaningful you need something though: limited carrying capacity.

    Whether by weight or space, it makes no difference. If you can carry all the best tools, they become less significant. And jack-of-all-trade become useless.
    Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
  • KionashiKionashi Member
    edited December 2020
    Percimes wrote: »
    For the preparation and the choice of equipment to be meaningful you need something though: limited carrying capacity.

    Whether by weight or space, it makes no difference. If you can carry all the best tools, they become less significant. And jack-of-all-trade become useless.

    agree, carrying several weapons should make you carry less drops.... I don't think that would be a problem since I believe there is a inventory limit in AoC
  • Percimes wrote: »
    For the preparation and the choice of equipment to be meaningful you need something though: limited carrying capacity.

    Whether by weight or space, it makes no difference. If you can carry all the best tools, they become less significant. And jack-of-all-trade become useless.

    But aren't there also a weapon progression tree? Or do i remember wrong
  • TalentsTalents Member, Intrepid Pack
    I definitely think there'll be a "best weapon", but it'll probably be a Legendary Unique one so only one person on the server will have it.
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  • Thats why i want as much gear as possible to collect in game, to make various builds.
    Im not a big fan of setbonuses since that usually makes those sets BIS, i rather mix and match.
    Then again, all stats must be viable for classes. Like you can either get STR to do more dmg per hit, or DEX to hit more often for less but that adds up to same amount.
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  • VirtekVirtek Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I really love this idea!

    To a point, at least. I don't want to have a need to carry more than maybe a couple of weapons to help me through *most* situations. If I'm adventuring and I don't have sufficient inventory to bring back the things I find....there is something wrong with the game design. When I need to also pack many sets of armor as well...that's no good.

    Perhaps if you could compete at say...90% efficiency in *most* content without the highly-specialized weapons/armor, I'd really like that. I say *most* because I do like the idea of specific regions/dungeons/bosses/encounters requiring a lot of specialization to even attempt.
    The balance being that I don't want to get one-shot in open-world PvP by "Freddy the Frozen Fighterguy" because I forgot to pack my complete set of Frost Armor that gives me 95% cold resistance but only 10% of the standard armor rating in all other circumstances. The only competitive strategy that would exist in that environment would be the one that gives you the most bag space.
  • Sum12hateSum12hate Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I'm interested in the weapons crafting system imagine if people dedicated themselves strictly to blacksmithing different smiths specializing in different aspect of their weapon of choice
  • Virtek wrote: »
    I really love this idea!

    To a point, at least. I don't want to have a need to carry more than maybe a couple of weapons to help me through *most* situations. If I'm adventuring and I don't have sufficient inventory to bring back the things I find....there is something wrong with the game design. When I need to also pack many sets of armor as well...that's no good.

    Perhaps if you could compete at say...90% efficiency in *most* content without the highly-specialized weapons/armor, I'd really like that. I say *most* because I do like the idea of specific regions/dungeons/bosses/encounters requiring a lot of specialization to even attempt.
    The balance being that I don't want to get one-shot in open-world PvP by "Freddy the Frozen Fighterguy" because I forgot to pack my complete set of Frost Armor that gives me 95% cold resistance but only 10% of the standard armor rating in all other circumstances. The only competitive strategy that would exist in that environment would be the one that gives you the most bag space.

    That's why I said, if you are just exploring the wilderness you should bring your jack of all trades set and maybe take a little bit more to beat the enemies but don't have to worry about being totally countered
  • VirtekVirtek Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Agreed, @Kionashi , (and I did see you mention that) I would just want the "JOAT" to be a bit better than simply OK, though.
    Perfectly lining up elements and damage types for your best advantage should be maybe a 10-15% bonus in an MMO that isn't specifically designed around interacting elements as a core theme, in my opinion.

    I definitely dig the idea of using elements and damage types.
    I'm just afraid of it going too far and then we're at an incredibly complicated point where you now need to focus on all 8 damage types for both your weapons and armor. While a few damage types that give decent benefits would truly boost income for crafters, too many would dilute the market of a game where crafting is supposed to be highly specialized. Crafters would need to push far to perfect their craft and then (potentially) waste resources crafting one of each damage type, only to have a lot of the money spent on materials go stale while waiting for all of the gear to sell.

    Bring on strategy!!! Keep it interesting!!!
    If I need to keep an elemental almanac and calculator on hand to decide which gear to bring when...that's too much.

    Again, I love the idea, so I'm really not trying to rain on the concept.
    I'm only putting out my full thoughts on the balanced side of the conversation. =)
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited December 2020
    I am very interested to see how AoC will make every weapon interesting, meaning effective both in PvE and PvP, with good animations.

    I have great concerns regarding weapon versatility, most games fail at that. Only the games with locked weapons per class are succesful in making weapons cool.
  • KhronusKhronus Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    The idea of one single best weapon sucks. I am definitely looking forward to seeing a variety of options that may or may not complement different gameplay styles. One of the most interesting things for me in AOC is going to be helping players min/max their stats and dps/healing/mitigation. This can only be improved by having options for weapons to strive for.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    There will always be a best weapon. Even if at the top end everything is equally viable, there will be a best weapon.

    "What is the best weapon?"

    "There is no single best weapon, they are all equally viable. The best one to use will depend on what you are fighting and other circumstances."

    "Okay, yeah, I get that they are all good and I can get whatever one I want, but what is the best weapon?"

    "Again, it is going to depend. What are you planning to do? What is your playstyle? What role do you have in a group?"

    "Hey I didn't sign up for a job interview, I just want to know the BEST WEAPON."


    "Get a bow, that's the best weapon."

    "Okay cool, thanks!"

    People will argue and there will be a weapon determined to be superior to others. It's just how gamers think. Even if they are wrong.
     
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  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Every one knows that polearms are superior to any other weapon. ;D
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  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Damokles wrote: »
    Every one knows that polearms are superior to any other weapon. ;D

    Bonecrusher disagrees
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Nagash wrote: »
    Damokles wrote: »
    Every one knows that polearms are superior to any other weapon. ;D

    Bonecrusher disagrees

    Everyone knows that Lifebringer and Spiritpiercer were the best weapons in APOC.
    roaaztC.gif
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Damokles wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    Damokles wrote: »
    Every one knows that polearms are superior to any other weapon. ;D

    Bonecrusher disagrees

    Everyone knows that Lifebringer and Spiritpiercer were the best weapons in APOC.

    only after they nerfed it
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • 9000% agree @Kionashi , it's not fun when everyone chases the same gear at max level...hoping to see a good range of gear and some customisation options.
  • Atama wrote: »
    There will always be a best weapon. Even if at the top end everything is equally viable, there will be a best weapon.

    "What is the best weapon?"

    "There is no single best weapon, they are all equally viable. The best one to use will depend on what you are fighting and other circumstances."

    "Okay, yeah, I get that they are all good and I can get whatever one I want, but what is the best weapon?"

    "Again, it is going to depend. What are you planning to do? What is your playstyle? What role do you have in a group?"

    "Hey I didn't sign up for a job interview, I just want to know the BEST WEAPON."


    "Get a bow, that's the best weapon."

    "Okay cool, thanks!"

    People will argue and there will be a weapon determined to be superior to others. It's just how gamers think. Even if they are wrong.

    tl;dr - There will be a best weapon even if there isn't.
  • I startet to think about how the weapons were different in APoC. It made me a little concerned that some weapons will just be better for certain things and that you can feel required to have to use a specific weapon for certain things. F.x. the halbard had lifesteal, which could be essential if you are running around on your own. This will of course be dependend on what the various weapons brings etc
  • xlangatangxxlangatangx Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Damokles wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    Damokles wrote: »
    Every one knows that polearms are superior to any other weapon. ;D

    Bonecrusher disagrees

    Everyone knows that Lifebringer and Spiritpiercer were the best weapons in APOC.

    You think sucking people juices out of your enemies was the superior strat? The force of 10,000 suns has something to say to you
  • You think sucking people juices out of your enemies was the superior strat?

    There's a name for people that do that...
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    daveywavey wrote: »
    You think sucking people juices out of your enemies was the superior strat?

    There's a name for people that do that...

    Vampire? Yes, I like the vampire strat.
    roaaztC.gif
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    daveywavey wrote: »
    You think sucking people juices out of your enemies was the superior strat?

    There's a name for people that do that...

    bloodsucking scum? you mean lawyer

    a9f6d0fdeb5b81925c3441b345e92acc.gif
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
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