Greetings, glorious adventurers! If you're joining in our Alpha One spot testing, please follow the steps here to see all the latest test info on our forums and Discord!

caravan fights and travel time

TruthfoolTruthfool Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
Hi,
I'm very new to the forum. Before hand I would like to say I how nice the game developpement looks. I haven't been hyped for a game in a long time. Thank you for that.

I have a few questions going in my head about caravans.
- From what I understand caravans move at the same speed players do (or maybe a little faster?) but can they be targeted anywhere along the path?
If so I'm wondering for a long ride, if that would open the game to the same old "let's attack the caravan at 4 a.m"?
- Do caravans only work if players are escorting them or can they go unattended by players?
- given the size of the map, some caravan's trips could take realtime hours to go to their destination provided they don't have a specific speed boost. Then wouldn't we risk to see only small trips caravans? From a Gamemaster perspective I love to put my players in small scales scenarii. For instance I did an entire campagne out of a block street in the RPG Shadowrun. However I wonder if this wouldn't limit the game too much. If ressources are specific to certain locations, you would need to have some long distance exchanges to complete I suppose some or most of the production chains. But if these ressources can't get through or come at very slow pace wouldn't that be a deterent for the bulk of the players who will have a limited time to play?

Thank you for your answers and reflexions
best regards

Thruthfool
Eldritch Harbingers
We follow the truth of the True gods, wherever she leads us

Comments

  • there are NPC caravans that are controlled by NPCs for certain caravan quests, and there are player caravans that players make to move resources between nodes, those caravans are controlled by the real people so you need to hop into the caravan and push foward to move in any direction.



  • I've also wondered how long a typical caravan travel is.

    One thing is sure though, caravans can't go faster than the players because if they did they would leave their escorting protectors, and attackers, in the dust. Well, unless they stop if/when attacked. Then they could move at about ground mount speed I guess.
    Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
  • From what I understand caravans move at the same speed players do (or maybe a little faster?) but can they be targeted anywhere along the path?
    If so I'm wondering for a long ride, if that would open the game to the same old "let's attack the caravan at 4 a.m"?

    your caravan can be attacked, if you run it at 4 a.m.
    Do caravans only work if players are escorting them or can they go unattended by players?

    you drive the personal caravan as a player, similarily to how you'd drive a mount.
    given the size of the map, some caravan's trips could take realtime hours to go to their destination

    if you want to send your materials from the north to the south, it might very well take over an hour
    Then wouldn't we risk to see only small trips caravans? However I wonder if this wouldn't limit the game too much. If ressources are specific to certain locations, you would need to have some long distance exchanges to complete I suppose some or most of the production chains. But if these ressources can't get through or come at very slow pace wouldn't that be a deterent for the bulk of the players who will have a limited time to play?

    With increasing distance the risk increases.
    With increased risk, the amount of northern goods shipped to the south will decrease.

    This will however significantly increase the payout for the players who do complete the journey.
    Which is the whole design principle behind the system.

    Nobody is required to do long-distance hauls. Nobody is being prevented from doing so either. People that have the time and security do them can do them at any time. People that don't can do shorter ones, subsection the trips or simply sell the goods in their home node and let someone else transport them
  • Warth wrote: »
    let someone else transport them

    Exactly. You don't want to spend that long doing it yourself, put your goods in someone else's caravan, and let them do it! B)
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • TruthfoolTruthfool Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    thank you for the comments.
    It makes sense that it can give reasons for people create transport specialists :)
    Now that I think of it I love the idea
    Eldritch Harbingers
    We follow the truth of the True gods, wherever she leads us
  • Based on Steven's estimated size/time comments from the last stream he said that 10km = 30min travel time on a mount.

    If we estimated that 250km of the 480km map size is "land area" it seems that the nodes may be approx 2 to 3 km apart.

    +/- 3 minutes per KM would mean it's 6-9min per node on mount. Based on the video I saw of a moving Caravan it moved slower than a mount because the NPC guards accompanying it walk/off mount. My best guess based on the current information would be that walking a Caravan between a single node will take roughly 12 minutes if tier 1 mounts are +/- 30% faster than non mount speed.

    Tyrantor
    Master Assassin
    (Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
    Book suggestions:
    Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
  • DargronDargron Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    Truthfool wrote: »
    - From what I understand caravans move at the same speed players do (or maybe a little faster?) but can they be targeted anywhere along the path?
    If so I'm wondering for a long ride, if that would open the game to the same old "let's attack the caravan at 4 a.m"?
    Potentially, yes, although there are a lot of varying factors involved. How far the caravan is running and how long it takes to get to the destination. How easy it will be to get intel on where and when to intercept a caravan, and how often people run them at that hour (otherwise the 4am Band could be sitting around for hours waiting around for a caravan that never comes).
    Truthfool wrote: »
    - Do caravans only work if players are escorting them or can they go unattended by players?
    There will be NPC caravans that can be sent along predetermined paths between nodes. They will presumably act autonomously like an escort quest and do their own thing, and it's up to any players nearby to try and keep up with them and decide whether to help or hinder them reaching their destination.

    There will also be personal caravans available that can be driven independently by players, if a more hands-on approach is desired for less predictability.

    Truthfool wrote: »
    - given the size of the map, some caravan's trips could take realtime hours to go to their destination provided they don't have a specific speed boost. Then wouldn't we risk to see only small trips caravans? From a Gamemaster perspective I love to put my players in small scales scenarii. For instance I did an entire campagne out of a block street in the RPG Shadowrun. However I wonder if this wouldn't limit the game too much. If ressources are specific to certain locations, you would need to have some long distance exchanges to complete I suppose some or most of the production chains. But if these ressources can't get through or come at very slow pace wouldn't that be a deterent for the bulk of the players who will have a limited time to play?
    Even with the little information we know, there are already a lot of potential tactics available for getting cargo "safely" from one location to the next. Yes, small trips would be safer and wiser, but that doesn't necessarily mean cargo will be localised, just that the journey from one side of the map to the other might take a few more steps and more careful planning to get where it needs to go. It might be that one player takes the cargo the whole way in short safe bursts, or it may be that he only takes his cargo part way and it gets passed along to the other side of the map via multiple players like Pass the Parcel.

    I have a feeling things will balance themselves out along the way. The more of a deterrent caravans are for some players, the bigger the profit and motivation for others to fill the gap. If too many players are successful moving cargo at 4am, other players will soon see the merit of attacking caravans at that hour, and when players start losing their cargo as a result, they in turn will rely less on 4am shipments and look for alternatives. If the meta for safely transporting cargo gets too complicated, players that know all the best methods will start setting up their own ingame delivery businesses to profit from transporting the cargo of other players.
  • I would hope that the speed of the mounts you provide for the caravan will have an impact on its travelling speed. If you've bred super-fast mounts, then your caravan should travel faster.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • MichaelMichael Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    daveywavey wrote: »
    I would hope that the speed of the mounts you provide for the caravan will have an impact on its travelling speed. If you've bred super-fast mounts, then your caravan should travel faster.

    Yep! This is ideal.
  • daveywavey wrote: »
    I would hope that the speed of the mounts you provide for the caravan will have an impact on its travelling speed. If you've bred super-fast mounts, then your caravan should travel faster.

    This could very well be possible considering there may be people specializing in the animal breeding profession. Maybe having a strong focus in breeding the fastest horses/mounts and selling them to caravan leaders or guilds? Very interesting.
  • VoidwalkersVoidwalkers Member
    edited December 2020
    I'm also curious about the terrains the caravans are able to travel through. As a rule of thumb we should steer clear of the main roads, right? right?? (well although I'm sure off-road routes will be full of mobs ...)

    I remember back in Uncharted Waters Online, when we're hauling goodies from Asia back to Europe, we had to plan our cargo / supply / routes carefully and avoid Cape town (popular pirate camping spot), then sway all the way into Mid & North Atlantic to avoid Cape Verde and Las Palmas (more popular pirate camping spots ...), before making a sharp turn and head straight for Lisbon.

    I also wonder whether there will be caravan parts / components that work as "camouflage" and shrink my caravan's pvp zone.

    When I'm working my ass off to navigate my poor caravan through the woods (if I can), the last thing I would want is a group of random folks on the main road suddenly getting a "A caravan is nearby! Do you want to attack/defend/ignore" pop-up without actually spotting my caravan first.

    What's better than a well-defended caravan?
    A sneaky stealthy caravan.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    What's better than a well-defended caravan?
    A sneaky stealthy caravan.
    So you want the ability to caravanish.
     
    Hhak63P.png
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Atama wrote: »
    What's better than a well-defended caravan?
    A sneaky stealthy caravan.
    So you want the ability to caravanish.

    That was quite good.
  • TruthfoolTruthfool Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited December 2020
    I also wonder whether there will be caravan parts / components that work as "camouflage" and shrink my caravan's pvp zone.

    When I'm working my ass off to navigate my poor caravan through the woods (if I can), the last thing I would want is a group of random folks on the main road suddenly getting a "A caravan is nearby! Do you want to attack/defend/ignore" pop-up without actually spotting my caravan first.

    What's better than a well-defended caravan?
    A sneaky stealthy caravan.

    It's a very interesting Idea if one could navigate the regions differently given the components of your caravan. FOr isntance the mounts but even the material used for it.
    Eventually we could have a need for trackers to find or spot specific caravans.
    That could be a way to give rogues or hunters specific purpose or maybe when they are taken as secondary class.
    Probably the stealth of a caravan would be inversely proportional to the amount of defense it brings.
    It could hinder how many defenders it can carry with it.
    Eldritch Harbingers
    We follow the truth of the True gods, wherever she leads us
  • Noaani wrote: »
    Atama wrote: »
    What's better than a well-defended caravan?
    A sneaky stealthy caravan.
    So you want the ability to caravanish.

    That was quite good.

    Yeah, I thought it earned a 'Like' :D
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • Sum12hateSum12hate Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited December 2020
    daveywavey wrote: »
    I would hope that the speed of the mounts you provide for the caravan will have an impact on its travelling speed. If you've bred super-fast mounts, then your caravan should travel faster.

    As sum1 who plans one basing my entire game time around the animal husbandry I would love it if the mounts do affect the caravan travel experience and on that note amphibious mounts should gain movement buffs through marshy/wetlands but may need people to build specialized caravans? Is caravan building going to amongst the many artisan skills? Possibly under the carpentry tree??
  • @Sum12hate you don't build the caravan as an artisan.

    You build/provide the parts of one. People running the caravan have to get these parts and customize their caravan. (better armor, wheels, load capabilities for example).

    Animal husbandry has been confirmed to influence/breed the animals that become a part of the caravan.
  • Sum12hateSum12hate Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    @Warth many thanks for the clarification kind sir/madame
  • Warth wrote: »
    Animal husbandry has been confirmed to influence/breed the animals that become a part of the caravan.

    You can use bred animals as the Steed Certificates for the caravan, but have you seen anything about whether or not a bred animal's stats would affect the caravan?
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • If all Caravans have the walking NPC patrol with it seems unlikely it would impact the speed.
    Tyrantor
    Master Assassin
    (Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
    Book suggestions:
    Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
  • Tyrantor wrote: »
    If all Caravans have the walking NPC patrol with it seems unlikely it would impact the speed.

    So, you keep the shiny raptor-cheetahs for yourself, and throw the crappy snail-frogs into the caravan. Works for me!
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • daveywavey wrote: »
    Tyrantor wrote: »
    If all Caravans have the walking NPC patrol with it seems unlikely it would impact the speed.

    So, you keep the shiny raptor-cheetahs for yourself, and throw the crappy snail-frogs into the caravan. Works for me!

    well for a caravan you probably want the tankiest strongest animals, perhaps even those that can regenerate health faster.
    5000x1000px_Sathrago_Commission_RavenJuu.jpg
    Commissioned at https://fiverr.com/ravenjuu
  • VoidwalkersVoidwalkers Member
    edited December 2020
    Am also curious of the max amount of defense a caravan can carry, and whether I can launch multiple caravans on the exact same route.

    Let's say our merchant/artisan guild's planning on shipping piles of highly valuable ingots & dragon scales to the science metropolis to be crafted into the highest level of gears there.

    Can we simultaneously launch say, 1 caravan carrying the goods, plus 4 other armed-to-the-teeth escort/decoy caravans packed with nothing but npc guards, archers, or even ballistas?

    tl:dr: Can I modify caravans into IFVs? :p
  • Can we simultaneously launch say, 1 caravan carrying the goods, plus 4 other armed-to-the-teeth escort/decoy caravans packed with nothing but npc guards, archers, or even ballistas?

    I don't believe you can do it "simultaneously", but it depends on what the launch windows turn out to be like.

    "Also caravans will have limitations on carrying capacity and launch windows that will segment mulitiple caravans by several minutes, which would space out the caravans"
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Caravans#Caravan_types
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • daveywavey wrote: »

    I don't believe you can do it "simultaneously", but it depends on what the launch windows turn out to be like.

    "Also caravans will have limitations on carrying capacity and launch windows that will segment mulitiple caravans by several minutes, which would space out the caravans"
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Caravans#Caravan_types

    awwwww there goes my plans for an fully-armed combat-ready logistics battalion :(
  • awwwww there goes my plans for an fully-armed combat-ready logistics battalion :(

    Well, if you're driving them yourselves, there's no saying that you couldn't pause outside a city and wait for the next caravans to catch up.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
Sign In or Register to comment.